Cotic Rocket: first ride review

Go on then, I’ll have one. You’ve talked me into it.

But that is literally the price you pay for getting things made in the UK.

Only the frame is UK made right? Then the other foreign parts are assembled in the UK

Seems like a massive ebike tax if you compare data points from Cotic’s and other made-in-the-UK brands’ meat powered offerings

This frame is 100% UK made. Every. Single. Piece. The rear ends of the droplink frames are made in Taiwan, which does keep the price lower on those than they might otherwise be. Nobody’s scoring Porsches or mansions out of this. We are building the very best thing we can the very best way we know how.

We think it looks ace. YMMV.

Nobody’s scoring Porsches or mansions out of this. We are building the very best thing we can the very best way we know how.

That’s great. I’m totally on board with the ethos and the approach and I bet the bike is mint to ride. I also don’t mind if you made shedloads of money selling them.

The sad reality is that I’m priced out and I’m not the only one.

I don’t think anyone is saying the cost isn’t justified given the expense of fabricating the frame in the UK. Or that Cotic are “taking the p*ss” with their pricing … It’s just the reality that the price of the bike will put it out of reach of all but a very small proportion of riders/potential buyers.

I’m guessing that, for a small company, factoring in the notorious unreliability of ebikes and the likely need for warranty issues, a certain extra margin needs to be reflected in the asking price.

As regards looks – this is covered in depth in the comments on the FGF issue a couple of weeks ago. Personally, I think it looks alright; the basic frame silhouette is very similar to the Swarf Contour I used to have, which was a gorgeous looking bike. The battery is a bit of a carbuncle, but I think it’s something you’d get used to. Besides, if in the market for an eMTB, looks / aesthetics are pretty much compromised whatever ebike you’re looking at.

Good luck to Cotic, I hope they do OK with this.

I don’t mind the looks, and I like the swappable nature of the battery. I won’t be buying one, but it did persuade me to go for a cotic jeht or rocket next year.

The price would be more palatable if I knew I could replace the motor with a latest gen tech one in a couple of years. That has value.

But water bottle under the downtube in small and medium sizes, especially when the latter has a reach of 463 and a stack of 639.

I really appreciate this as a creation though.

off topic but did I see you on TV last night @chiefgrooveguru ?  Working in the ‘ugliest building in Brighton’ 🙂

I’m not sure what you’re expecting to change? These electric motors are a mature technology and nothing radical will happen with batteries either – that kind of R&D is very slow moving. My ebike is now 6 years old and the motor and battery are essentially identical to what you get in a new equivalent bike.

Ebike motors are fundamentally flawed, across the board they have extremely high failure rates, well beyond what most industries would consider acceptable and most of the suppliers of them have been in breach of consumer rights as a result. The amount of media is rapidly increasing covering this.

As a result iterations to motor design are in the works from most suppliers/manufacturers to improve resilience and maintainability, to reduce cost and likelihood of the need for replacement under warranty. Bosch have stated this in reply to the guardian article on poor reliability.

Likewise the associated technologies are changing rapidly – the size and capacity of batteries for example, the software upgrades that translate to increased efficiency, changes in power curves etc… Which are often locked to specific generations of motor.

To say a) the tech is mature and b) things don’t change much, is frankly wrong.

What a surprise, an STW review of a cotic bike, with absolutely no critical comments made.

Well, firstly, it’s a ‘First Ride Review’ … So more about initial impressions rather than an in depth long term review.

Secondly, the price, and ‘unconventional aesthetic’ are listed as cons … So, y’know, a bit of balance there, contrary to what you claim.

People will probably buy them despite the fact its gopping. Take out a loan or something – its whats killed the used bike market. Cheap/low interest finance for a 10k ebike.

Similar in the car market. Lets look at BMW. Loads of their new stuff makes this Cotic look like the equivalent of Keira Knightly and you’d be mental to buy one with “real” money but they’re a few hundred quid a month on finance/lease etc so they’re assaulting your eyeballs every time you drive anywhere.

People have no taste.

The Shimano EP801 …it’s quieter both when delivering power and when coasting (there’s minimal rattle). Anecdotally the EP801 is way more reliable too.

One thing that really stands out about Shimano motors is their fuel economy. For the same capacity battery and same Nm/watts stats, we get more range out of a Shimano system than any other…… I don’t think there’s any magic to this fuel economy. I think it’s just a by-product of Shimano motors not giving you maximum assist levels as eagerly/early as other motor brands do.

@jaketurbo I suspect this is a sign that motors are basically mature tech now.  They feel a bit different to each other, but much harder to say ‘better’.

“Give up power more readily” vs “more natural riding feel”.  Add a load of ‘just read press release” and “new different bike” to influence judgements.

And it’s very hard to really assess efficiency – after 3+ years with a shimano motor it still surprises me sometimes.  It’s mostly about the amount of climbing but even then it depends on your pace – it’s not just switching to ‘boost’, but if its’ a fast ride with high cadence will use more battery power.  Doing the same distance and climbing but a bit more relaxed and chatting on the climbs gives more range.

“The price would be more palatable if I knew I could replace the motor with a latest gen tech one in a couple of years. That has value.”

The DJI motor has moved the game on massively in terms of power and torque in a lightweight unit.

Theoretically possible – Shimano haven’t changed their mounts yet.  (though Bosch just did).  With it all strapped the outside Cotic could offer an refurb/upgrade fairly easily.  But you’re unlikely to want/need it – much like forks year on year I think we’re already into marginal gains on motors. the new Shimano doesn’t seem any quieter in use to me, but the rattle on mine is definitely more muted (but not gone).  It’s not a radically different ride though.  DJI is only 200g lighter than the Shimano and reliability and support are basically an unknown for the next few years.

On reliability/repairability/lifespan personally I think there are some unrealistic exceptions.  We’ve added another c£1000 part to our bikes in the motor and another c£500 part in the battery.  That’s no different to the £1000 fork and £500 shock (cheaper and more expensive options available on both).  Servicing the suspension is >£200 a year (and if you’re riding a lot should probably be twice a year).  That’s £1000 running costs over 5 years.

Shimano supposedly has a 5 year motor life with discounted replacement out of warranty up to that point.  If your motor lasts 5 years and then needs replacing thats no more expensive that keeping your suspension in good condition.  (and many people are ‘upgrading’ to a newer fork or shock inside 5 years anyway.  Stanchions get scratched, internal parts fail).  I’ve been through some number of XT mechs in the last few years and they’re not cheap.  Mtb is an expensive hobby and e-bikes have made it more so both one off and, realistically, ongoing.

This might be a really stupid question, but how is the battery housing fixed to the frame? And is it in danger of getting knocked off when it gets crashed?

I know people are not knocking bottle cages off their bikes all the time but they are a LOT lighter and more flexible, I assume any way….

I’m not in the market for one, far too expensive, so doesn’t really matter to me, just curious.

Theoretically possible – Shimano haven’t changed their mounts yet.

IIRC (and it is an “if”), Ben from Bird said they’d picked Shimano for their (now aborted?) eeb partially because Shimano had committed to maintaining the same mounting pattern for future motors, for the foreseeable.

May also have said that Shimano were the only company willing and able to supply them at that time though. And of course they canned the project because of the high failure rate in testing.

Congratulations. Another ‘different people have different experiences’ shocker.

Bit harsh

@badlywireddog

. Fwiw, I don’t think it’s particularly unrealistic to expect an e-mtb motor to be adequately sealed against water and grit ingress. I think if you were speccing an e-bike for all-year, off-road use in the UK, it would be high on your list of priorities.

completely agree on that. My point is more that if you think of the motor like a fork and look at any replacement costs as effectively being a ‘service’ then the costs of replacing a £900 motor after 5 years doesn’t sound so bad.

That’s not to say there aren’t a load of other issues – how often they’re typically failing, how quickly you can get a replacement etc – but failures seem to be becoming less common (or at least further apart).  The days when every Specialized motor was failing inside a year have gone. If a motor lasts a 2? 3? years and then needs a ‘service’ which might well still be free, or a couple of hundred £ then that’s no different to a fork in terms of running costs or, if motor swap is quick, time the bike is out of action*.

off-road use in the UK

that might be key.  I don’t know what people are doing but I don’t think river crossings or hub deep puddles on an e bike are ever going to be a good idea. Rohloff hubs are the ‘sealed, super low maintenance gearing option’.  People have ridden huge mileages on them in foul conditions but SDBarnes was destroying them.  they did not like total immersion. I suspect e bike motors are always going to be the same – the balance of friction/sealing (especially if you add in some temperature shocks from hitting cold water) is a hell of an ask.

*(if it takes many weeks to sort a new motor not so good, but it really shouldn’t.  Shops could carry stock of these and it’s not a long or difficult job to swap out a motor (even if warranty assessment happened afterwards)

Its a properly thought out design enabling interchangeable batteries.

Charting your own unique course based on your own (well tested) views and not following the vanilla crowd should be applauded.

You don’t have to like it to respect it…..I happen to think it looks and sounds fantastic and is the first ebike I’ve seen that I would actually consider buying!!!

Well done Cotic. Glad you exist.

@munrobiker

I really like the look of it and how a bike looks matters to me! Ha! Ha!

@cy

If you ever fancy doing the big Cairngorm loop we considered for the Cascade, just let me know? There is definite scope to do it on e bikes. You will need to pedal with the motor off on some sections to make it round but that is part of the challenge.

Cheers

Sanny

Ps The promo video made me think the bike just looks right. I cannot explain it but in a world where every mountain bike seems to follow the same aesthetic, I like that this one is different.

I wonder how much choice some of the smaller manufacturers have in motor spec. I would presume many suppliers have minimum order quantities that might be too many in terms of numbers or cash flow commitments to make them impossible spec in the real world.  I doubt you can ring up many of them and say how much for 100 over the next year. They are more interested in talking to the big brands who say how much for 1000 a month.