Lance, latest have we done it yet.

You have to laugh at how well informed folk are on here, i mean here we have Tom who actually helped weigh lance on a weekly basis, and he also trained with lance since he had his cancer.

Perhaps a little research into the history of the whole sorry saga is required rather than insulting people. It’s all out there.

Eh? You’re the one who claimed that he weighed less. Did you help weigh him on a daily basis? You also claimed that he probably trains harder than anyone else. Did you regularly train with him post cancer then Steve?

You must have some great stories Steve, please share.

Anyone throw this one in the ring yet but any questions being raised over Armstrong having cancer at all? I would question everything that man has ever been part of, he’s built a myth around him, time to rip it down. I’m going for epo induced heart failure.

Why do you do this hyperbolic ranty stuff steve?
It seems somewhat childish and does not really help what is a largely polite if academic[ i.e. pointless] discussion.

Oh that’s right I forgot, he was an unfit fatty and after 1 vile of epo he won his first tour.

Straw man no one has said this

You have to laugh at how well informed folk are on here

Ah so you are the real expert – do tell us your inside information 🙄

, i mean here we have Tom who actually helped weigh lance on a weekly basis,

Straw man

and he also trained with lance since he had his cancer.

Staw man and irrelevant

You must have some great stories Tom, tell us some more.

Well onceo n the internet I made this point about Armstrongs’ weight and you will never guess what happened next….

Interesting discussion between a couple of non cycling but v good athleates (track) friends of mine on FB about doping, if what they are saying is true, it makes you wonder how much of the whole doping scandal is politically motivated

Nick Andrews
I don’t know much about drugs in cycling , however what I do know about blood doping is that at high performance it may not necessarily improve performance, there are many considerations and factors to assertain this . Also , on a broader note , it seems that great performance is the result of some kind of ergogenic aid nowadays with people forgetting the obvious ! . Well let’s state the obvious then . There is absolute no substitute for Intense training and mental agility and the desire to win . Lance Armstrong is what he is because of those two biggest factors . Any other intervention would ‘perhaps’ and its a big ‘perhaps’ would serve to give him an edge, that’s all , however with everyone else on doping methods, if convicted it would just mean its nice to know that he was not at a disadvantage and so he was in a fair position from the start. I can’t see a reason why they would strip his titles over this ??? And if not convicted perhaps blood doping actually gives athletes a disadvantage ! Karma for you 😉
Like · · 7 hours ago via Mobile ·
4 people like this.

Mark Rogers Exactly right mate. He was the best at the time they were all doping. That is why he is suffering more than the dopers he was up against. He was one of the greatest cyclists and athletes that has ever lived- physically and mentally- anyone that argues that is talking rubbish. If he, and everyone was clean, he’d have still dominated. It’s just a shame that doping went on (and still does). If people feel that strongly about doping in cycling, they should turn their anger and critisism to the UCI- not so much Lance Armstrong, as he was just a small part of the promoted doping culture.
6 hours ago · Like

Nick Andrews Hey man Yeh , I know bud . Just seems crazy that people just don’t understand that he’s the best because of all the important attributes . Plus doping actually has a lot of negative effects and not everyone tolerates its effects on the body in the same way . An improved oxygen carrying capacity comes at the cost of increased plasma volume , high blood pressure and increased strain on the cv system , plus the blood is more viscous and the bodys cooling system doesn’t operate effectively . This is probably the most limiting factor as if you start to overheat then your performance declines rapidly .
6 hours ago via mobile · Like · 1

Mark Rogers It’s the way everything is explained in the media mate. They thrive off disgracing people, when the ignorant journalists don’t present any of those points you’ve made- they make it sound as if doping could turn a couch potato into a world champion. People believe this crap too. The people that argue with me about this, are generally people that don’t know the first thing about cycling and sport and what it takes to be at the top. It was the very top athletes that doped- and it wasn’t a case of doping to get to that level. One theory is that the UCI promoted doping to get more spectacular one-off performances in the Tours to make cycling a more appealing sport to the masses. Thats all doping could do- it inconsistantly improves recovery, meaning that some performances would be ‘a bit better than usual’.
6 hours ago · Edited · Like

Nick Andrews Man ! It doesn’t suprise me mark . After all sport like most things in a capitalist society is just as much as a business as everything else . Your right , they make it sound as though drugs are a magic potion that will give you superhuman powers . It’s just not the case and its an art to get the extra edge . I wonder whether the action of such things merely act as a placebo effect . And the media … well they got to sell the papers ! Crazy world

being good track athletes clearly doesn’t equate to properly understanding biology or the history of doping in cycling 🙂

Non of that sounds even remotely true Hustler. I’m no doctor, but looking at how fast Pantani, Armstrong, Ulrich etc rode up Alp d’Huez then seeing that the fastest riders were going up there 4 or 5 minutes slower in 2011 leads me to believe that doping makes a huge difference.

Glitch bump

Glitchy bump

Whats the Straw man Junkyard keeps going on about?

Steve you’ve gone very quiet…..come on, explain this whole weigh loss and training stuff to us.

however what I do know about blood doping is that at high performance it may not necessarily improve performance

Then they wouldn’t bother would they, surely?

Additionally, they are forgetting that the desire for a clean sport is initially driven by cycling fans. It’s certainly not driven by the UCI or pro cyclists. Otherwise it would just be an accepted part of the sport, like cheating/new designs in Formula 1.

It’s the way everything is explained in the media mate. They thrive off disgracing people, when the ignorant journalists don’t present any of those points you’ve made- they make it sound as if doping could turn a couch potato into a world champion.

This particular statement is both stupid and insulting. I do not know anyone who thinks that Lance was not an exceptional athlete, some question his Grand Tour ability. But NO ONE thinks he was a “couch potato”

they should turn their anger and critisism to the UCI

There is an awful lot of anger and criticism aimed at the UCI, they are frequently viewed as at least complicit in the whole sorry affair, they should read the USADA documents for a start.

The more worrying aspect of there conversation is that they are very good track athletes (and there is no shortage of dark clouds hanging over that sport)

As for the political motivation, where was that then? I missed it. Can you provide a reasonable hypothesis that doesn’t involve an Anti Doping Authority going after an athlete they believe they have good evidence doped!?

There’s a great picture of Lance here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/20009005

🙂

A couple of comments on recent posts:

There was nothing, pre-cancer, to suggest he was going to be anything other than a domestique with the occasional one-day or short stage-race win.

That’s a bit of a dangerous assertion, easy to shoot down, because very few occasional winning domestiques get one of these…

Of course, if we’re to believe various witnesses, e.g. those from the hospital treatment room (and I do) then we get a pretty good idea of how he got it.

Anyway, the_hustler, I think your friends are very very wrong about the effects of doping, particular oxygen vector doping.

If it doesn’t work, how come the average speeds got so high under it? How come teams like USPS arrived in the midst of EPO-fuelled Europe and were blasted off the back for a year until they got themselves a stash?

Sorry to your mates but I’d much rather listen to the reasoned scientific thinking of Ashenden et all than their “a little knowledge is a dangerous thing” confident but misplaced assertions

@ crazy-legs

I like this one…

UCI response due today.

UCI response due today.

Will be a definitive “Sitting-on-the-fence” statement I’m sure.

I think they will burn him now, they will be more concerned with defending themselves.

MSP – Member
I think they will burn him now, they will be more concerned with defending themselves.

Me too.

12 noon for the decision I believe.

Walsh was interesting on R4 this am – very scathing of McQuid

Said he should resign, but that the UCI were nothing if not unpredictable

I think they will burn him now, they will be more concerned with defending themselves

The problem may be that if they were really complicit in the doping (early warning of tests etc.) then just dumping him may not be an option without his agreement. It’s gonna be messy

Ooops 😳

What a typo – McQuaid

I seem to have said McQuid… 😆

My guess is that they’ll want to defend their position, but not look utterly stupid…

= ratify USADA decision on LA but ask for some parts to be refered to CAS as a technicality…eg UCI allegations???

They’ll agree with the judgement.

“this page cannot be found” 😆

hora – jumps off the fence with a quick edit…?

I think they’ll agree too – the only way they can be really harmed is if LA actually ‘fesses up & takes them down with him. From what I’ve seen of him over the years, this is very unlikely.

Have you had time to ponder Mr Smith’s question yet hora? 🙂

There’s a great picture of Lance here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/20009005

I wonder when the announcement will come that he has been dropped by Oakley, but has signed a new endorsement contract with Deal Extreme.

Have you had time to ponder Mr Smith’s question yet hora?

Yes Hora, he does seem to want an answer.

MrSmith is a tad weird. I’ve already said that when George came ‘out’ that its impossible for him to be clean. If someone who has never tested positive admits to doping then its a world of shit.

I seem to have said McQuid…

McSquid – invertebrate.

so do you think lance doped or not? a simple yes or no will do.

Hora you do realize that a huge amount of doping bans in cycling are handed out to people that haven’t tested positive. As Hamilton said, it really is an IQ test as much as a drug test. EPO becomes undetectable overnight.

hora – Member
I’ve already said … its impossible for him to be clean

I think you can take that as Hora saying that he thinks he doped…

I think you can take that as Hora saying that he thinks he doped…

no it’s not the same thing, that’s the same as lance’s “tough week” “these allegations” etc.

Does it really matter… it’s just a silly ego thing now for you guys isn’t it…

no, just interested in how the staunch supporters/enablers react to the news, you only have to see the way ligget is carrying on and the reaction of glitterati at the livestrong do the other day.
i guess facing the reality that your idol is a fraud and a cheat is a bitter pill to swallow, or not?

That’s a bit of a dangerous assertion, easy to shoot down, because very few occasional winning domestiques get one of these. << Pic of Rainbow Jersey wearing Lance >>

So everyone who wins the world road championship goes on to win grand tours? Sure, there ARE people who do that but there are plenty who don’t. I can’t find the quote but at least one of his former teammates who saw him ride before cancer said he wasn’t a long stage-race sort of rider as he lacked the TT and climbing ability.

It’s not like I’m saying he was awful you know, just that people around him never expected him to end up where he did. Which, given what we know about his doping, is a fair comment.

you only have to see the way ligget is carrying on

You reckon Liggett is going to apologise to all the people he called liars including the US govt investigators who he said were paying people to lie in court about Lance?