The institutions set limits on the discourse – in the case of Westminster, it means that only a narrow set of right-wing views are heard.

Really?

I think that Dennis Skinner & Jeremy Corbyn (and of course the late Tony Benn and his mate agent Boot of the KGB) long standing membership of the HOC might point away from that, and I don’t think you can really say that any of them have been less than vociferous in successfully making their views heard in & around Westminster over the years!

I could probably throw in Gorgeous George and countless others into that mix as well.

Let me just cancel out richmtb then.

I have to think you are going to be very dissappointed if you think the actual system is going to change.

To be fair, even the adoption of PR would make a real difference to the political system. I assume that’s what they’ll use?

jambalaya – Member
…I have to think you are going to be very dissappointed if you think the actual system is going to change. You are going to have the same career politicians working with the same real world problems as the every other country making pretty much the same choices as do all the others.

Aye, but none of them will be Lords and all of them will be elected, so at some stage we can get rid of them.

That plus PR is a major improvement.

Scots
No 55%, Yes 45% (for scots, so not so far from real polls)

Aye polls are closing too, just like the real world!

No (I’m Scottish) (8%, 36 Votes)
Yes (I’m Scottish) (8%, 33 Votes)

47.8% yes, 52.2% no! 😆

all of them will be elected,

Hmm, ‘Additional Members’ are elected by who?

How would you vote out a particular AM at an election?

That plus PR is a major improvement

Is it? partially, but not fully. I dislike the secondary vote element because that is picked from party lists. Anything which perpetuates the party system rather than making it about the individuals being elected I see as fundamentally flawed because they’re there on their party’s merits not their own. So where is their primary loyalty? Party or constituency?

big_n_daft – Member

vote yes for project feartthink we are up to 1,043 time now..

Mr Farage is dead keen to strip away much of Scotland’s share of the UK govt’s expenditure. That of course, will only be possible if we vote No.

As apposed to if you vote YES, you’ll be stripped of 100% of the UK govt’s expenditure?

think we are up to 1,043 time now..

Well it’s got to be funny eventually, right?

Anyhow, Better Together are handing these out to students:

But I though No voters had Nae Baws! 😀

Aye, but none of them will be Lords and all of them will be elected, so at some stage we can get rid of them.

I think you overestimate the role of the Lords!

😀

The RMT union has backed Scottish independence.

ninfan – Member
But I though No voters had Nae Baws!

It seems they are getting their baws handed to them! 😆

Not about policies?

Could have sworn the DO was banging on about the bedroom tax on a daily basis (almost!) and evil Tory policies. I guess we can dismiss privatising (sic) the NHS too, especially since the DO is matching the Tories at this.

So.. with the oil then.. isn’t it being extracted by private companies? What revenue does the govt get? And surely some of the companies involved with extraction and refining are British?

The government gets lots of tax on the oil… after the cost of extraction is removed from the barrel price, governments get up to 95% of the remaining profit on a barrel depending on what was agreed at the time of the production license was granted. In some parts of the world e.g. iraq the private companies are just paid a flat rate of a couple of dollars for each barrel they produce, with all the oil going direct to the government. I don’t know the UK figures, but I do know the Norwegians have a flat 75% tax rate on the barrel price (after extraction deductions).

It does amuse me when people keep on going on about the profits the oil companies make… but its a pittance compared with the various governments takes!

iS would have to renegotiate all the productions contracts I would guess ? But I would imagine that they would probably just rubber stamp all the ones currently in place.

I guess we can dismiss privatising (sic) the NHS too, especially since the DO is matching the Tories at this.

Just because you keep repeating this doesn’t make it any more true.

especially since the DO is matching the Tories at this.

He’s really not. Should I start calling you the SDO – Second Deceitful One?

Aye, but none of them will be Lords and all of them will be elected, so at some stage we can get rid of them.

That plus PR is a major improvement.
@eipc – I very much doubt you’ll notice the lack of a house of lords, not unless you follow the detail of law making. I would say AS is just the sort of leader that needs a house of lords keeping tabs on him but I appreciate he’s your leader not mine.

PR, yes it could be. You will have much more coalition politics though, hopefully that doesn’t turn into the highly fragmented / numerous election system the Italians have. Also I am not sure coalitions deliver radical change, much more likely to get more of the same.

. I would say AS is just the sort of leader that needs a house of lords keeping tabs on him

Right winger says elected politicians need to be kept tabs on by unelected members of the aristocracy – shockerooni

Westminster too can have coalitions…

Right winger says elected politicians need to be kept tabs on by unelected members of the aristocracy – shockerooni

I think he means a second chamber with long tenure. The fact that they are unelected isn’t actually that important IN PRACTICE. And personally, I don’t think party politics has a place in the Lords – electing members would probably bring it in don’t you think?

molgrips – Member
I think he means a second chamber with long tenure. The fact that they are unelected isn’t actually that important IN PRACTICE….

They would like you to believe that.

Do you know what actually goes on in the Lords?

IMO party politics is already thoroughly entrenched in the Lords

molgrips – Member
Do you know what actually goes on in the Lords?

Deals and self-interest.

Nothing vaguely democratic.

Deals and self-interest.

Nothing vaguely democratic.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2008/oct/13/terrorism-uksecurity1

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4810482.stm

Bastards!

Andrew Neil taken to task over the NHS:

[video]http://youtu.be/23m6CukRUGM[/video]

😀

And personally, I don’t think party politics has a place in the Lords – electing members would probably bring it in don’t you think?

Not if there wasn’t a house of lords it wouldn’t.
I want to live in a democracy and that means elected representation

Deals and self-interest.

Links?

There are Scots that DO care what happens to the NHS in Endland and Wales. I do not wish to see it privatised and have many family and friends reliant on it. There is a very real possibility I may require NHS care in England one day.

I would like to be able to vote for a party at Westminster to try to prevent privatisation.

I am aware of the cancer services at the hospital in Gateshead that Salmond mentioned in the tv debate. My wife’s cousin used their services before sadly passing away a few years ago at the age of 33.
The difference between Salmond and myself is that I actually care what goes on there.

[video]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4yXF38ye1gc&feature=youtu.be[/video]
Farage reckons that well over 50% of Scots live on benefits.

What have we done to deserve Salmond and Farrage at the same time? The next thing we know there will be Galloway involved, oh wait a minute…..

A Farrage Salmond BS bingo fest next? Would either of them be able to last an hour without saying something true?

I love him! Especially for the next fortnight. Boris and CmD as well,they should get them on a bus with THM,do a tour… that’ll save the union.

Ducks you do say some extraordinary things – if you keeps you amused.

Farage reckons that well over 50% of Scots live on benefits.

I’ll bet that more than 50% of the UK population “live on benefits of some kind”:
Pension
Housing benefit
Child benefit
Tax credit
Disability living allowance
Job seekers
etc

What percentage of the UK’s adult population is dependent on the welfare state?

The welfare state is a big part of British family life, with 20.3 million families receiving some kind of benefit (64% of all families), about 8.7 million of them pensioners. For 9.6 million families, benefits make up more than half of their income (30% of all families), around 5.3 million of them pensioners. The number of families receiving benefits will be between 1 and 2 million fewer now because of changes to child tax credits that mean some working families who previously got a small amount now get nothing.

The number of people who receive more in benefits and public services than they pay in tax is at record levels, official figures show.
More than half of households now take more from the public purse than they contribute, thanks to a generation of surging Government expenditure.
It has left a minority of middle class taxpayers bearing a growing share of the tax bill.
Well-off families now receive £1 in benefits and services for every £5.10 they contribute in tax.
Some 52 per cent of households, or 13.8 million families, received more in benefits and public services than they contributed in taxes last year, according to the Office for National Statistics.

Households with an average income of £104,000 paid £30,000 more in tax than they received from the state last year, ONS figures show.
The top ten per cent of earners contributed £26,984 in income and council tax, plus £10,303 in indirect taxes such as alcohol duty and VAT – a contribution to the public purse of £37,287.
They received £2,284 in state cash benefits, which include child benefit, maternity pay and pensions.
The cost of educating their children came to £1,274, while they used NHS treatment worth £3,410 – meaning their total cost to the Exchequer was £7,264.
By contrast, a family with the national median income of £23,069 received £3,798 more in benefits and services than they paid in taxes last year.
They paid £4,620 in direct tax and £5,029 in indirect taxes, but received £6622 in cash benefits. They received schooling worth £2623 and NHS services worth £4,202.
In total, they paid in £9,649 and received £13,477. It means for every £1 they paid in, they got £1.40 back.
The poorest ten per cent of families, with wages of £3,875 a year, paid £4,611 in direct and indirect taxes and received £13,559 in cash benefits and services. It means they received £2.94 in state support for every £1 they paid in tax.

Farage reckons that well over 50% of Scots live on benefits

A couple of years out of date, but, for a change, he might not be talking complete nonsense.
Maybe 60%

Nope TMA,peas in a pod. Still,14 days to save your retirement/holiday plans! Still as confident as you were a couple of weeks ago?

With public sector on the radar.

Has anybody else noticed a really big drop in car stickers these last few days?

Depends what you do,there is a blanket ban on anybody in education,certainly in my authority,displaying anything. I just park outside the gates…

molgrips – Member
‘Deals and self-interest.’
Links?

Maybe you’ll find something in here?