I just wonder if this has more to do with people within USADA, the UCI and US Cycling really not liking each other, or certainly trying to right a wrong they feel they may have been dealt by another and Lance is a mere scapegoat.

He’s a scapegoat that really set back cycling some way in the doping fight. He punished people who spoke out either on the road or off it. He has put himself out there as a clean rider and has made his fortune from that image and if (as lots of people suspect), it’s a lie, the “biggest name in cycling” needs to be shown to not be above the consequences of the lying and doping.

I’m also someone who follows baseball and agree totally with the approach where “juiced” records get an asterisk explaining that it was during the steroid era from an admitted doper. I don’t think you can strike the records completely but I think we will need to make a footnote that those years were not clean.

I’m also someone who follows baseball and agree totally with the approach where “juiced” records get an asterisk explaining that it was during the steroid era from an admitted doper. I don’t think you can strike the records completely but I think we will need to make a footnote that those years were not clean.

This is what they did with Riis’s ’96 win – given that Ullrich was 2nd and Virenque was 3rd there’d not be much point reordering that one anyway. Perhaps they’d do the same for Armstrong if the ultimate outcome of all this is against him.

Though my Lance bubble was burst some time ago it does seem to be a sort of get him at any costs process now

He has kind made himself a target for what you describe by trying to build a reputation as Mr Clean.

If there is one thing that gets most peoples backs up it’s someone who seems to have cheated and got away with it. Add in the boasts about not cheating and the massive fortune built on potentially tainted wins and you’re going to have a string of indignant individuals lining up to knock you off your perch.

It wasn’t just Lance that was drugged up all his team were if they wanted to be on the tour team they had to be on the same programme or they were replaced with someone who would.
Lance would have you believe he passed over 500 drug tests and passed everyone , that is rubbish he has never took that many and failed at least 2 which his mate Pat at the UCI made sure never came to light at the time.

Can forums be used in court as libel evidence? Just a thought as I’m sure Mr McQuaid will be pleased to know what you think of him.

Can forums be used in court as libel evidence? Just a thought as I’m sure Mr McQuaid will be pleased to know what you think of him.

A dangerous road for Mr McQuaid to tread, it’s what did for Oscar Wilde.

Pretty sure McQuaid has far more to worry about when the details come out about this case, to be concerned about a couple of posts on a mtb forum.. payments made to the UCI, alleged covered up test results etc.

Be interesting to see who Armstrong tries to throw under the bus, the UCI, Bruyneel etc.

Personally I think he won’t actually contest it, just so the details don’t come out, but will continue to deny everything until the grave.

given the cost of a court case I would suggest it’d a dangerous road for anyone. McQuaid would possibly have the UCI funds to play with and is some what wealthier than most of us.

And therin lies the problem with Lance. He has won cases againt the likes of his Irish kiné because he could pay a better legal team even though we have no reason to doubt the honesty of the poor woman he so spitefully attacked with his legal might. Same for the Andreus.

Ulrich won against Werner Frank which was very obviously a miscarriage of German justice at the time, but Frank was later vindicated and I hope got far more back than the 50 000e losing the first case cost him. Ulrich is another dispicable pile of justice abusing… .

He’s a scapegoat that really set back cycling some way in the doping fight. He punished people who spoke out either on the road or off it. He has put himself out there as a clean rider and has made his fortune from that image and if (as lots of people suspect), it’s a lie, the “biggest name in cycling” needs to be shown to not be above the consequences of the lying and doping.

Yep, I can see your point, thanks, I hadn’t considered that.

I’m also someone who follows baseball and agree totally with the approach where “juiced” records get an asterisk explaining that it was during the steroid era from an admitted doper. I don’t think you can strike the records completely but I think we will need to make a footnote that those years were not clean.

Gets my vote too. 🙂

A dangerous road for Mr McQuaid to tread, it’s what did for Oscar Wilde.

Has McQuaid been bumming the aristocracy? How did I miss that?

Can forums be used in court as libel evidence? Just a thought as I’m sure Mr McQuaid will be pleased to know what you think of him.

I’m fairly sure you can’t sue for libel if the alleged libellous comments are true.

this everyone was attiude does no one any favors and its far far from the truth. i raced through out the 90’s and was never offered drugs never saw drugs never heard of anyone using drugs and yet when i was ill visited my GP, upon learning i was racing his first words were.. what drugs do you use and how often.. i said id never seen them he refused to believe me saying i had typical symtoms.. that’d be the steroids you gave me for 10 yrs for excema says I.. no chance he said..

everyone believes every rider takes drugs and it simply isnt/ wasnt true.

7 wins that’s all I’m sayin

“dodgy seller”
( that’s all I’m sayin’)

Lol. There was no drug problem in cycling in the 90s? 😆
There’s drug problems in cycling Now

Some dude was using epo recently for strava wasn’t he?

So….as we know that pretty much everyone in the TDF in that era was cheating, is there going to be a period of time where there were no winners? No TDF? Should the results just be scrubbed from the record?
Not a bad idea you know.

You sir are a buffoon.

Can forums be used in court as libel evidence? Just a thought as I’m sure Mr McQuaid will be pleased to know what you think of him.
LOL , you should vist cyclingnews forum and go onto the clinc sub section it will open your eyes about the UCI and Lance cover up .But if you belive Lance is cleaner than clean I would give it a miss.

2 pages in and nothing new. Can we wait until something actually happens or do we have to run the whole thing again every week. Do people just cut & paste or have we learnt what we are going to say and how the thread plays out by now.

Cyclist May or May not (nothing proven IN LAW yet) have taken Drugs
Governing Body doesn’t want to pursue
USADA Does
Still nothing actually happened

10 Pages by breakfast or my money back!

2 pages in and nothing new. Can we wait until something actually happens or do we have to run the whole thing again every week.

Reading and posting here is optional – just in case you thought it was mandatory 😉

Let me get this straight. If he had to go to arbitration- The USADA can find Lance guilty on the basis of dopers giving evidence against him who are looking for a lesser sentance (but with an obvious personal axe to grind) with NO chemical proof at all?

So he could be stripped of his titles with no actual physical proof just the word of tainted competitors?

That is absolutely **** madness.

He could be stripped and classed as a doper even though he never failed a test? WTF.

How is that fair? First Cancer attacked him, then this. That man has had to fight most of his adult life and you wonder why he has an abrasive character to some?

Hincapie has an axe to grind against Lance? How come?

@Hora

No he has failed drug tests in the tour they were covered up
Also some people righty or wrongly have suggested his cancer was due to all his drug taking it is said he was on the drugs long before he turned to pro cycling .

So he could be stripped of his titles with no actual physical proof just the word of tainted competitors?

They are called witnesses. If I murder someone and 10 people stand up in court and say they saw me do it, that would usually be enough to convict even if there is no physical evidence. It would probably only fail if the witnesses could be proven to be lying – e.g. if the witness could be proven to be not there at the time.

Maybe he is abrasive and aggressive because of all the drugs he has (allegedly) taken?

If I murder someone and 10 people stand up in court and say they saw me do it

If convicted drug dealers, murders and a rapist stood up in court would they make viable and credible witnesses to the specific crime?

As they lay their hand on the bible to give the oath could you look at them and say ‘oh yes of course they are honest citizens giving an oath with no ulterior motives at play?

No he has failed drug tests in the tour they were covered up
Also some people righty or wrongly have suggested his cancer was due to all his drug taking it is said he was on the drugs long before he turned to pro cycling .

Wow. Thank you. Could you also tell me is Elvis is still alive?

hora, we get you’re a fanboi but I would LOVE to hear how Hincapie, Leipheimer, Zabriskie, Vande Velde and Vaughters have an axe to grind. In fact, Hincapie has nothing to gain from coming forward as his career is over anyway. You have the floor, don’t disappoint

First Cancer attacked him, then this.

Cancer is a bastard and nobody deserves it. He deserves the USADA case against him. Don’t equate the two, it trivialises cancer and makes you look like a nutter.

Hincapie has an axe to grind against Lance? How come?

Lance got all his team to work to bring back time on Hincaple who was in a break and would have got the leaders jersey in the Tour de France if they had not chased hard, is just one reason.

Cancer is a bastard and nobody deserves it. He deserves the USADA case against him. Don’t equate the two, it trivialises cancer and makes you look like a nutter.

Hes been attacked pretty much since his first tour win on his comeback. The whisperers started.

How does this fact make me a nutter?

The floors mine but the walls, ceiling and sky belong to the smackheads and their supporters.

No he has failed drug tests in the tour they were covered up

This gets mentioned a lot, do you have a source for it?

Right, but the 10 men are his team mates.. So even if they are tainted by drug use (& are lying) then we are left with the situation with Lance’s entire team, including his right hand man, are on drugs & he is the only one who isn’t?

hora – so, tell us about how the current and former riders have an axe to grind and how they’re perjuring themselves for some perceived gain. I don’t trust Landis or Hamilton but I don’t see any benefit to that lot confessing to doping and implicating Lance unless it was true.

Lol @ Higgo!

Hora if his entire team admits to systematic doping being carried out by US Postal/Discovery etc then why shouldn’t Lance be charged? Are we to believe that everybody on the team but him were doping?

I don’t really care about his legacy etc-I’ve got cancer survivors in my family whom will always be much bigger ‘heros’ to me. At the end of the day, his cycling career needs to be judged solely on what he did as a cyclist and not take into account his cancer. You can’t go giving his victories to other riders because in most years the majority of the top 10 have already been popped. Just stick a load of asterix by his wins and move on-he needs to be brought to justice to ensure a cleaner future for the sport though.

I’m thinking that he will just accept the ban without challenging it, say that it was pointless contesting as everyone was out to get him, and continue to spout the ‘most tested athlete in history and never a positive test’ line to the grave…

The same people who subsequently failed drugs tests and he didn’t?

I’m a firm believer in if you are found guilty beyond reasonable doubt then you are guilty.

In a court you wouldn’t be found guilty because we think you probably did it we think and then ruined for life would you?

Who on US Postal failed a drug test Hora? Other than Landis…..

this case – despite armstrong’s spin – is not just about armstrong – 5 people are accused here including doctors, the hog and armstrong – they are accused of using & supplying drugs up to and including 2008, its not just a witchunt to strip armstrong of his titles.

The only reason its gone on this long is that armstrong is doing everything in his power not to stand up and have to face his accusers, this finally has failed, he has to decide by tomorrow what his next course of action is. The other reason its gone on so long is he has the deepest pockets, his attorneys have represented Bush in the past, the judge (Sparks) was actually appointed by Bush – this was LA’s last stand.

As I understand it now if it goes to arbitration LA chooses his attorney, USADA choose theirs and then they both have to agree on an independent.

Re the witnesses there are 10 who have already given their statements these include ex teammates, employees of USPS and non cycling related witnesses. As has been said the likes of hincappe arent sore losers – LA has been trying all sorts of tactics to confirm who the witnesses are – hence McQuaids embarassing interlude in the last coupel of weeks, shouting about jurisdiction – the UCI have had the same evidence just didnt bother doing anything about it until last week oddly..?!

And if the rumours are correct Tyler Hamiltons forthcoming book should make interesting reading, if only for the fact its being published depsite LA’s attorney’s best efforts (again!)

Who on US Postal failed a drug test Hora? Other than Landis…..

I said subsequently.

Most of his ex team mates only admitted they and lance took drugs and did blood transfusion when they were interview by the Feds and they faced jail if they lied .

Which of Lance’s teammates have ever tested positive then Hora?

Non Stop Nun – Member

Lance got all his team to work to bring back time on Hincaple who was in a break and would have got the leaders jersey in the Tour de France if they had not chased hard, is just one reason.
I’m no lance fan, but isn’t that the exact opposite of what happened that day?
Lance was hugely critical of the other teams who were chasing (Garmin, Lotto). It was a mess of a stage. Cav was disqualified to make it an even worse day for HTC.

Hincapie – Never confessed publicly, no positive tests
Leipheimer – One positive test in 96 before he went to US Postal. No other admissions/positives
Zabriskie – Never confessed publicly, no positive tests
Vande Velde – Never confessed publicly, no positive tests
Vaughters – Only confessed publicly a week or so ago, no positive tests

So, if all of them admit to doping and say Lance was doping too, I can see how you would see them as tainted 🙄

Who would you need to testify in order to believe them