Jeremy Corbyn

When Blair won the ’97 election Lab had been polling 10 pts ahead for ages. With a significantly more shambolic govt even than Major’s. Why’s that not the case now? Here endeth this year’s contribution to the thread…

I’d imagine that most people, when asked how they think the labour party are doing at the moment, would simply stare back blankly and say ‘who?’

Still…. I’m sure theres probably been made some progress made towards getting some Blairite/Moderate/whatever  candidate deselected in Telford or Stoke, and thats what really matters here comrades

When Blair won the ’97 election Lab had been polling 10 pts ahead for ages. With a significantly more shambolic govt even than Major’s. Why’s that not the case now?

A lot of things have changed in politics in the last 20 years –  the rise of ignorant populism and anti-reason (Trump is the obvious example, but Brexit is another) so voters are not making a simple choice and polls are also not reflecting how people are thinking. Before the last GE jamba and binners were wittering about a Tory landslide. Jamba had the good grace to shut up afterwards.

To be polling 5 points behind this absolute carcrash, while continually going backwards, takes a truly unique talent

Any ‘opposition’ that isn’t 20 points clear against this shower isn’t really an opposition in any meaningful sense of the word, is it?

Anna Sourby is doing a far better job than the collective fumbling and ineffective navel-gazing of the labour front bench

Are they going to get round to articulating their vision for Brexit yet? Or just sit around with their thumbs up their arses for another few years, and hope something turns up?

18% of Labour voters think Brexit is right. Guess that accounts for Corbyn's front bench then. pic.twitter.com/7rvBhPfAxw

— E.H.James (@EddieHenryJames) October 23, 2018

The reason for the equal showing in the polls is partly the effect of constant mention of May and the tories in the papers and none for Corbyn no matter what he does.  this always works in favour of the government no matter how bad the publicity as it puts them in the eye of the public.

Remeber how in the last election campaign when the campaign started and the press had to mention Corbyn and report what he did how much better he did in the vote than the polls stated?

THIS!

The reason for the equal showing in the polls is partly the effect of constant mention of May and the tories in the papers and none for Corbyn no matter what he does. this always works in favour of the government no matter how bad the publicity as it puts them in the eye of the public.

so you are saying that all publicity is good publicity ?

How do you explain Miliband – he was all over the papers but it didn’t help him…

Doesn’t Millibean and the carefree innocent days of politicians being given grief for eating a bacon butty wrong now seem some like some long-departed era, back in the dim and distant mists of time?

Aaaaaahh … fondly remembered golden days before every single member of the front benches of both parties were clearly insane and cspent their time cackling into the abyss while the countries economy crumbles around them

To be polling 5 points behind this absolute carcrash, while continually going backwards, takes a truly unique talent

I’d usually make a quip about voting for Owen Smith, then I remembered that you couldn’t even be arsed to join the party.

 Or just sit around with their thumbs up their arses for another few years, and hope something turns up?

I am sure whatever they do the “moderates” will do their normal frothing and ranting against them.Shame the moderates dont put half as much effort into articulating anything sensible themselves than wailing about Corbyn.

Even the tory nutters keep their hatred of May purely to brexit rather than anything and everything.

By the way. Signed up as a Labour member yet?

Could you detail the last time any moderates/blairites/whatevs did any ‘wailing about Corbyn’?

I haven’t heard any. But then I get my news from actual news sources, not the paranoid, delusional bunkers of left wing social meeja

Still holding the line that anyone who isn’t a fully paid up member doesn’t get to have an opinion, I see?

Its a good job its only those paid up party members who get to vote in general elections, isn’t it?

Victory is assured!

Oh…. hang on a minute……

Constantly Binners.  Still at it now although they have shut up a bit.  HOdge attacks over the antisemitism nonsense for one

they are not moderates – they are rightwingers.

Ah yes… I forgot.

And the Guardian is a right-wing, corporatist mouthpiece of the military-industrilal complex as well.

Its ok… Ive got my left wing bearings now comrades

Carry on….

Binners – open your eyes man!  He may not be perfect but he is a damn sight better than the other candidates were.

He is also still constantly under attack by labour rightwingers who will invent any sort of nonsense their hatred of him is so great.

Anna Soubry,for anyone who’s remotely interested, was one of the most foul, nasty, unpleasant humans I have ever worked with, back in the day when she was a telly person. When I found out some years later she had become a Tory MP, I thought, well of course, what else could she become. Binners, you really do need to find some better people to look up too. It doesn’t show you in a good light.

Tory MP in Not Being a Very Nice Person Shocka!

I couldn’t give a toss! She’s a politician. At least she’s doing something at this critical juncture in our nations history!

Which is more than can be said as you survey the tumbleweed blowing across the benches opposite. And I’m talking about the whole labour party here. Not just the Corbyn worshippers. Absolutely totally, utterly and completely unworthy of the title HM Opposition.

Every single last one of them is as guilty of a total dereliction of duty when it comes to Brexit. They’ve done NOTHING! Just sat there with their thumbs up their arses and watch it unfold.

The labour party, in its present form, is patently unfit for purpose. If it was a dog, you’d have put it down 12 months ago

And the Guardian is a right-wing

No. There is no need for straw men if your glorious “moderates” are attacked. The Guardian position is firmly established although admittedly often misunderstood by raving righties. Its a centre left liberal paper which does have a range of columnists including some more left wing ones. Overall though it isnt the natural paper of where Labour is now and that is reflected in its coverage.

Still holding the line that anyone who isn’t a fully paid up member doesn’t get to have an opinion, I see?

No since I also express my opinion without being a member. However I am simply saying that if I had as strong opinion about it as you I would stop whining and put my money and time where my mouth is as a local party activist.

Join the millions of other “moderates” and bring Labour back to the glories of New Labour.  Although of course you might run into the minor problem that there really isnt that many “moderates”.  I think this is why they get so excited about Corbyn since they liked being able to control a party and its large vote base. The problem is that trick only works for so long.

The thing about the labour rightwingers is that to accept Corbyn is right it means that they also have to accept they have wasted decades of their political careers going in the wrong direction.  this their egos will not let them do and thus they invent utter nonsense about Corbyn to attack him – see the whole antisemitism row.  Not once has anyone found anything remotely anti semitic about Corbyn but it doiesn’t stop the attacks.  He is anti isreal not anti semetic.

The thing about the labour rightwingers is that to accept Corbyn is right it means that they also have to accept they have wasted decades of their political careers going in the wrong direction.

To pick the most high profile and most critical example, yes, Corbyn/MacDonnel have been campaigning for 40 years to leave the EU, but I’m not convinced that Labour remainers are remainers purely because they can’t accept they’ve been wrong for 40 years. You have to admit there’s a reasonable case for being in the EU since 1975 and a case to remain in in future as well? The case for remaining can’t be dismissed as refusal to accept being wrong.

The thing about the labour rightwingers is that to accept Corbyn is right it means that they also have to accept they have wasted decades of their political careers going in the wrong direction.

There’s an element of truth to this I think. I remember when Corbyn won the leadership Burnham looked destroyed. He looked like he’d realised that he’d sold out his principles in order to win, yet achieved exactly the opposite. Same goes for Cooper. Yet now instead of admitting they were wrong, they snipe from the sidelines rather than engaging. It’s tragic because were they to do this, I’m convinced they’d gain a lot of respect from both the membership and the electorate and they’d be in a position to be leader again in the not too distant future.

I still see Yvette Cooper as far more likely to become PM. She is certainly better at holding Torys to account and have yet to see her ‘snipe’.

cooper would be disastrous – another clone without and idea in her head or a principle to her name.  almost as bad as Burnham who I can never forgive for playing the race card in the manchester mayor election

At least she didn’t flounce to take up a pointless job with no power to massage her ego like Burnham did. And yes, she may not be one of the vocal anti-Corbyn types like Hodge, Eagle or Leslie, but she’s been very much less than engaged with the new leadership. Her husband has done the sniping for her on the couches of political discussion programmes.

The thing about the labour rightwingers is that to accept Corbyn is right

Well I am not sure he is right. I do wish Labour could produce a better left wing candidate but the problem is they have been so badly hollowed out. We certainly do need a left wing Labour party in the same way we need a right wing Conservative party and ideally a few others. The main problem with the “moderates” is they liked having control of a party even if most of the votes werent for them. They also dont seem to realise quite how ideologically bound they are so lash out in anger. They wantt to have Labour dancing to their tune and dont seem to realise the trick Blair pulled only works so long before all the traditional voters say sod that and look for alternatives.

TJ – Have you watched her in action on the Homes Affairs Select Committee? Maybe I’m easily impressed by insightful questioning and a full understanding of her brief.

The thing about the labour rightwingers

That’s the funniest thing Ive read on here for years!  Binners is now right wing! LMFAO!

they also have to accept they have wasted decades of their political careers

Governing. Doubling health spending. That kind of thing.

John – and how long ago was that?  Labour completely lost its way in the last few years in government and moved so far to the right

Rockape – not meaning binners but the so called”moderates” in the labour party

corbyns position is firmly in the centre of the european social democratic tradition.

Leku – she is clever no doubt ( I guess a huge advatage compred to how dim most MPS are) but she has never that I know of expressed a vision of what she wants the future to be and her performance in the labour leadership election was distinctly underwhelming.  Talking in platitudes and soundbites

Still holding the line that anyone who isn’t a fully paid up member doesn’t get to have an opinion, I see?

No, just that your continued bleating sounds a bit hollow, given that you’re not prepared to actually do anything about the leadership of the Labour party. I seem to remember that you shut up for a while after the last election.

As it happens, I don’t think that Corbyn is a fantastic leader, but I do think he represents an incredibly important idea: democratic representation for social justice. It’s no wonder that the PLP despises him so much, given his threat to their cosy existence.

Do anything about the leadership of the Labour Party? I think it’s pretty apparent to everyone that that ship sailed a few years ago.

The takeover of the party is complete and Jezza is there as long as he wants to be there.

i know people who’ve been card carrying members for decades who’ve just given it up as a lost cause and given up their membership. And we all know that the direction of travel of the party is to help them on their way, along with any MP’s who aren’t deemed loyal enough to the glorious leader.

its a cult

More worryingly, it’s a totally unelectable one.

Jezza and his cabal will carry on doing what they do. Preaching to the converted. Playing to the gallery with targeted social media etc to those in the Canary echo chamber, with little interest in engaging with people like me  – a mere voter

You cant win elections doing that. As his woeful polling figures show in the face of a totally incompetent shambles of a givernment.

But then I don’t actually believe they want to be in power. Not even remotely. I’m sorry, but I see what I’ve always seen – sixth form level placard waving

But unfortunately the cost of that total lack of a serious opposition at this critical time looks even more like self-indulgence. Jezza looks no more interested in seriously engaging with the Brexit process now than he did when he went AWOL during the referendum campaign

Any opposition worthy of the name would’ve tearing this lot apart

Instead…. nothing. Silence. No vision, no strategy, no alternative being offered to this disaster we’re heading for

As this shitshow unravels the Labour Party will be held equally as complicit as Rees Mogg and his crew for their pathetic capitulation in the face of it, and their total abject failure to represent the interests of their natural voters, who are about to get hammered by the upcoming financial storm that the real rightwingers (not your imagined centrist bogeymen) are about to inflict on them, totally unopposed

i know people who’ve been card carrying members for decades who’ve just given it up as a lost cause and given up their membership.

Meanwhile, far more people have joined. You sound like one of those people who can’t accept two overwhelming democratic results. It’s pretty sad, really.

Still, the Labour party isn’t of greatest benefit to Ramsbottom’s comfortable middle classes, I suppose.

#stayclassy

I believe I have. Will you start taking your own advice?

Binners – tens of thousands of more members and what reselections?  Ther have been none not even Hoey who any self respecting leftish party would have thrown out by now.  Not Feild.    None of the scots who actually were asking people to vote tory to get rid of the SNP and whos non agression pact with the tories resulted in 10 scots tory mps that kept May in power – yes thats right – the pact between the rightwingers in labour in scotland with the tories gave the tories 10 seats and kept May in power.

the sight of labour activists cheering tory wins was an utter sdsigrace – and these were the blairites not the corbynistas

Stay real.  Your impressions are not the reality.  I agree he is a bit lacklustre but the rest of your rant – no bearing in reality at all

be kind to binners he misses those halcyon days when the labour leader was all chummy with the dirty digger and the bush clan. yeah ha!

Yeah, who wants to win elections anyway, eh?

I’m pretty sure if we’d have had another 3 consecutive Tory terms instead, everything would have turned out pretty much the same. Or better, probably?

Actually….there would have been more protest marches, so it would actually have been even better!

You can’t beat a good protest march

You can’t beat a good protest march

Yeah, I was at one on Saturday. Much bigger crowd than the current labour membership – which seems to be lacking democratic representation from Corbyn*.

*Or Aaron, Jon-John and Seumas.

i know people who’ve been card carrying members for decades

I always find this claim somewhat suspicious. Considering decades would have been when Labour was left wing previously as opposed to its dalliance with “the third way”.  Its also easily countered by all the stories about people rejoining Labour after giving up on it whilst it spent its time chasing the banks and right wing media barons.

along with any MP’s who aren’t deemed loyal enough to the glorious leader.

Aside from this is, to put it mildly, bollocks. Even the raving lunatic “moderates” who would prefer to destroy Labour than actually have it be left wing havent been given the boot and several should have been.

with little interest in engaging with people like me  – a mere voter

Odd that when the media was forced to give proper airtime he did fairly well then isnt it? Perhaps you should be questioning your choice of news sources.

 but I see what I’ve always seen – sixth form level placard waving

Of course you do but then again you are clearly a member of the “anti-Corbyn” cult. I am really not sure which out of the pro or anti Corbyn cults are more extreme. Its a close call. The problem with the anti Corbyn cultists is you really do seem dedicated on creating a self fulfilling prophecy. At the least the tory loons outside of brexit generally give the leadership an easy time.

Any opposition worthy of the name would’ve tearing this lot apart

Oh really? Explain how oh political guru.

Bonus points if you can deal with the question of the overlap between the Labour heartlands and those who voted for Brexit.