Jeremy Corbyn

So Binners you are angry at J.C because of Brexit and you want him to try and appeal to the voters who have concerns over immigration and the E.U.

Ernie admit it, you’ve just basically been supporting Corbyn as a vehicle for some silly “revolutionary strategy”. Or have you actually renounced your well publicised self-confessed Marxist beliefs? I don’t believe your utraleft sect will blossom, and to most lefties you’re a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

How about you dont lecture poeple on what the left think and I wont lecture you on what th far right think

Deal?

This was mentioned elsewhere… We hear how Corbyn failed to bring Labour voters round to Brexit, and how Labour voters are taking us out. But 63% of Labour voters voted to Remain. So far from Labour voters taking us out, it’s simply that as a whole they didn’t do quite enough to keep us in. This is similiar to a drink driver blaming their mates for not stopping them. Blame (if blame is how you see it) lies not with the people who nearly stopped something but didn’t; it lies with the people who actually did it. Pretty simple stuff I’d have thought.

63% sounds low? How about 64%? That’s the proportion of SNP voters that voted Remain. Which is why all those people are blaming Nicola Sturgeon for Brexit and insisting she resign. 1% is the difference between being a disaster of a leader and an unstoppable political force apparently.

CaptainFlashheart – Member
Surely the focus should be on those who might vote Labour, as opposed to those who would slavishly vote for a dog turd if it had a red rosette on it?

There aren’t any left Flashy.
You can vote for one pig too many.

Personally, I’m sorry John Smith didn’t live to disappoint us.
I never trusted or felt the slightest connection to Blair or his cronies.
Bitterness and hubris ruined Gordon Brown, a man spectacularly unsuited to the job and another with no thought as to the mood of his potential audience.

JC, despite not having the independence of mind and courage to ditch some, imho, unpleasant baggage at least has an air of honesty and integrity sadly lacking in almost any other mainstream politician, The Blessed Nicola accepted.
Someone even the most jaded of us, of whatever stripe, to take an interest in.

As someone once said about football, it’s the hope that gets you.
😐

And failing to listen to the Brexiters is not a failing in any way exclusive to the Labour Party.

But 63% of Labour voters voted to Remain

But that’s 63% of those who voted labour at the last general election.

The one that Labour lost.

Read up on survivorship bias.

ninfan – Member

But that’s 63% of those who voted labour at the last general election.

The one that Labour lost.

Strikes me this has literally nothing to do with the point at hand.

I read Angela Eagle is likely to stand as a leadership challenger. I wonder if the PLP need to grow a pair as I fear a leadership election will drag on and destroy the party. I reckon it’s time for them to look at forming a new party in a mass move. If Williams, Owen and Jenkins could do it 35 years ago and keep their seats/supporters, let’s see 172 do it now. Hey, they may even drag a few more of the 40. Leave Jeremy, his Chancellor and the rest of the SWP wannabes sat up at the back of the opposition benches…..

Yes and when Eagle loses they will have to call another leadership challenge.

Honestly does anyone think Eagle is more electable than Corbyn?

Strikes me this has literally nothing to do with the point at hand.

Hello and welcome to the forum 😀

neilnevill – Member
…I reckon it’s time for them to look at forming a new party in a mass move. If Williams, Owen and Jenkins could do it 35 years ago and keep their seats/supporters, let’s see 172 do it now…

They got into parliament on the back of being the Labour Party. The ordinary members seem to prefer JC, so it’s unlikely they would attract much support come GE time.

The only thing they will achieve is to destroy any influence the left have in Parliament, so the Tories will rule ad infinitum.

Maybe the SNP should start campaigning in England…

The first paragraph of your link binners :

Labour is in danger of becoming “irrelevant to the majority of working people” because the party fails to represent their concerns about immigration, Europe, crime and welfare, according to a devastating new report into its electoral prospects.

How does in danger of becoming irrelevant back up your claim that UKIP has, quote, “become, in the former labour ‘heartlands’ of the North, what the SNP have become in Scotland” ?

I don’t see that it does. Your claim is ridiculous. I have consistently said on here that Labour needs to reconnect with its traditional voters, that doesn’t mean UKIP has destroyed Labour’s vote in the North like the SNP has destroyed Labour’s vote in Scotland.

UKIP does more damage to the Tories than it does to Labour. The reason why Cameron had a referendum he would have preferred not to have was because of the UKIP threat, no other reason.

UKIP takes both middle-class and working-class Tory votes. If UKIP was more of a threat to Labour than the Tories Cameron would not have proposed an EU referendum, he would have sat back and watched UKIP inflict damage on Labour. Especially as the consequences of it going “the wrong way” were always going to be extremely profound.

.

Like his supporters, you seem more intent on slagging off anyone who disagrees with the beardy messiah, than engaging in any of the issues raised.

What do you mean like his supporters? I am a supporter, I attend Momentum meetings. Although I got pissed off with them bombarding me with pro-EU emails.

And opposing the coup by the PLP isn’t the same as on slagging off anyone who disagrees with Corbyn.

As far as addressing the issues raised I do indeed address them. That doesn’t mean I think Angela Eagle is the answer though.

You obviously do, so presumably anyone who doesn’t think Angela Eagle should be leader of the Labour Party isn’t addressing issues which have disconnected traditional Labour voters, according to you.

This has been going on for decades

So you think power should be handed back to a bunch of right-wingers who are completely out of touch with their own party, never mind their own voters. A bunch of right-wingers who have been in power “for decades”. Because they know how to sort it out. Well excuse me if I’m not convinced.

Honestly does anyone think Eagle is more electable than Corbyn?

Obviously not. Its a complete mess.

But the shadow front bench is hardly noted for heavyweights who are likely to do a good job is it. How many can anyone name? At least there are a brace of Eagles to make it easier…

Given that the LP are internally focused and still in denial about why they lost the 2015 GE its not surprising that they are floundering now. Fail to learn the lessons of history….

THM not impressed by Labour…who could have foreseen such events?

Anyone any ideas what Binner, ernie or I think of the Tories?

Honestly does anyone think Eagle is more electable than Corbyn?

Of course she isn’t. It’s utter madness. I can swallow the fact that Corbyn should go, but to be replaced by her? Can anyone really blame him for digging his heels in? And now I hear that the rebels MPs are taking legal advice as to whether they can take the name to a new party. Such is the complete and utter ridiculousness of all this, I assumed they’d be calling themselves The Provisional Labour Party or something.

I forgot Burnham was running for Mayor, so with Watson out they where my 2 picks for a new leader.

Corbyn was a lot more animated tonight speaking to Momentum supporters than we saw during the Referendum. Below is a Vice piece including some recorded remarks from his aide implying she was struggling to get him to engage in the high energy campaign McDonnell wanted to run. Have to say its not as good as usual Vide pieces but you can watch if you wish

Clearly the PLP thought Corbyn would resign if they bullied him enough. The PLP must know Eagle cant win? Have they got a plan?

neilnevill – Member

If Williams, Owen and Jenkins could do it 35 years ago and keep their seats/supporters let’s see 172 do it now.

Where are the SDP today ? Tell me.

BTW Owen campaigned passionately against the EU. So that’s at least something he’s won.

Honestly does anyone think Eagle is more electable than Corbyn?

Yes. Every Labour MP except McDonnell is more electable than Corbyn. Even Dennis Skinner 🙂

Persoanlly I think some of the other 172 need to grow a pair too…team Chaka&Tristan could do well.

Epicyclo, in the GE a lot more people vote than national members of the labour party. A good number of those would never vote for JC. Right now if there was GE I’d consider spoiling my paper with ‘none of the above’ rather than vote for JC as PM, and I consider myself a staunch labour voter. I suspect a good deal of the 172 would keep their seats, and they might even win in some other seats if they put up candidates

Dazh – our two main political parties are both totally, possibly fatally, split. Any leader has to bridge the gap between the warring factions and the most remarkable feature of all of this is that both have failed at exactly the same time. That is what makes the current situation so serious.

At present it seems very hard to see how these splits can ever be reconciled. It will take remarkable leadership on either side to pull it off and judging by the current front runners they odds look very poor. As I said before, to use a technical term, its a bit of a mess.

I’ve got Newsnight on. Just let me check … is it 1982 all over again? Certainly seems like it.

It’s actually quite a relief, that. As things from that point went really well for the Labour Party in successfully defending the working class from a right wing Tory party.

Oh wait…. hang on a minute…..

Sweet Jesus! All the potential Tory candidates, particularly the rabid right wing ones, must think all their birthdays and Christmases have all arrived at once!

63% sounds low? How about 64%? That’s the proportion of SNP voters that voted Remain. Which is why all those people are blaming Nicola Sturgeon for Brexit and insisting she resign. 1% is the difference between being a disaster of a leader and an unstoppable political force apparently.

Northwind are you saying that everyone in Scotland votes SNP. My understanding is it was 64% of the Scottish electorate which also includes many labour voters. Nicola sturgeon obviously did a better job getting her message out to stay than Corbyn did.

in the GE a lot more people vote than national members of the labour party. A good number of those would never vote for JC.

No, only the ones in Islington will be voting for Corbyn.

Labour voters in other constituencies will be voting for other candidates, like they have in by-elections and the London mayoral election for example.

Do you not get that the widely predicted electoral meltdown which Corbyn was suppose to trigger hasn’t materialised? If the PLP stopped sabotaging the Labour Party by slagging off Corbyn and his supporters (that’s 60% btw) and also stopped organising coups, that might help Labour’s standing. Don’t you think?

Sweet Jesus! All the potential Tory candidates, particularly the rabid right wing ones, must think all their birthdays and Christmases have all arrived at once!

Perhaps the PLP could all dress up as father christmases for them? That would be nice.

Go back to Islington, and prepare for government! 😆

Oh…. erm…

😕

As Newsnight reports, Corbyn is a brokenhearted man feeling betrayed. Unsurprisingly. Must be taking its toll on his health,

Is it worth it? Forget the lack of sensible candidates. Who would sensibly want such a shite job?

Go back to Islington, and prepare for government! 😆

Well I know you’ve got a thing about Islington binners, you are always banging on about it. The “Islington bubble” you call it.

But for someone who likes to castigate others for allegedly not understanding or addressing the issues, and of being ignorant of life in “working-class” inner-city areas, you yourself are remarkably ignorant.

You assume that because it is in London Islington must all be middle-class and affluent.

When in fact Islington has some of the worse deprivation in the UK. Example :

Islington has second-worst child poverty rate in England[/url]

Why do you think they vote Labour and are so exceptionally supportive of their MP?

If the parliamentary Labour Party were an animal, it’d have been put down. I know that this is only one step away from blaming Fatcha, but this almighty cluster****, as much as Iraq, is Blairs true legacy.

Must be taking its toll on his health,

Is it worth it? Forget the lack of sensible candidates. Who would sensibly want such a shite job?

Yes. It’s not about him.

If he was in it for just himself he would have behaved more like Blair and the rest of the shower. Blair was very happy with what politics did for him. Corbyn made his choice a long time ago. Too late now for him to change his mind imo.

EDIT : My understanding is that it’s the support which he’s been receiving that has sustained him. Obviously not support from the PLP.

{removed}

ernie, its pretty clear to me that the labour party is currently massively divided and irreconcilably so. Corbynites and new-Blairites are just to far apart. JC advocates sticking to principles, well I’d like to see the 172 stick to their principles and leave. I’d like to see them take on the JC labour party, and I’d vote for them.

andy4d – Member

Northwind are you saying that everyone in Scotland votes SNP. My understanding is it was 64% of the Scottish electorate which also includes many labour voters.

Of course I’m not saying that. I am reallyy just saying what I wrote. 64% of SNP voters (according to exit polling) voted Remain. (62% of Scottish voters as a whole).

This compares with 63% for Labour voters UK-wide, which we’re told is a disaster for Corbyn, while 64% is a triumph for Sturgeon. Weird eh?

well I’d like to see the 172 stick to their principles

Are you sure they’ve got some? What are they?

putting some effort into a campaign and trying to win

And you think staging a coup against your own party is the way to win, or even a principle?

BTW most of the campaigning at elections is done by party members. If it was left just to MPs they would never win.

the original “gang of four” got a reasonable grass roots organisation up and running very quickly

imagine what the “gang of 172” could do

neilnevill – Member

putting some effort into a campaign and trying to win

He did, even Angela Eagle said so. She tweeted something like
“Corbyn working so hard, so much energy its not our fault the media is not reporting it”

Your using some very emotional language ernie, why is it a coup? He’s been sacking members of the shadow cabinet, not for failing tp perform but for expressing views to him. These are smart, experienced political heavyweights who have earned (in my view) a right to have their views heard by the party leader. Personally I think JC’s behaviour is poor. Its stirred up some strong responses but coup? Not a word I’d use. I see more PLP members, including the deputy leader (elected in the same vote as JC) trying to talk to JC and find a compromise, I see JC refusing to negotiate, I see the PLP now pursuing the remaining options and likely putting in a challenge as per the party constitution. Personally I can’t see that uniting the party hence why I’d like to see them leave and form a new party. That’s not a coup, they have to win/earn support. If they don’t they won’t be re-elected. They may be ‘stealing’ the role of formal opposition I guess, call that a coup if you widh but it isn’t to me.

ftfy