this is becoming a joke.. you are TJs zombie log in and I need a breather from this absurdity
too many knocks on the head have sent you doolally old timer..

Yup, I’d respond with silliness if I was getting schooled too….

then thats good enough for me…

exactly

getting schooled

oh dear… 😆

but I can’t possibly see how it won’t protect you from certain types of impacts

This I would agree with, but there is a world of difference between ‘Glad I was wearing a helmet, so I didn’t cut my head’ and ‘My helmet broke so it undoubtedly saved my life’.

They do protect, at low speeds, from minor injuries.

The rest is questionable.

The rest is questionable.

EDIT: agreed

Common ground then?

I will wear a helmet when I think I am likely to be riding stuff where a fall is more likely; riding road in the rain, racing, riding with others.

I don’t believe it will protect me in a serious fall or in a serious collision with a car/van/antelope.

My concern is that there is a generation of riders who think that riding without a helmet is dangerous, and by extension, that riding with a helmet is somehow safe or safer; I don’t believe that this is correct.

I think that serious falls in cycling are few and far between, and that relying on a helmet as a form of protection is foolish/wrong/bravado/ignorant.

I think people should ride in a way that minimises the chance of a head injury, not wear something that is pretty much unproven in terms of preventing such an occurence.

Crikey your dealing with flat earthers, if a helmet manufacturer tells me its essential it must be, mind you i think when the wife gets angry they might have a use 😉

So we can maybe also agree that a helmet is a good idea on the whole, when mountain biking..?
That there’s a very good chance that it may reduce the severity of some low level injuries..?

you have admitted that if you think that you may be likely to fall off you’ll wear a lid so I’m guessing yes..?

schooled indeed.. 😆

rudebwoy.. you’re out of your depth here buddy.. old you may be, but if you’d like to try and display some of the wisdom that’s sometimes associated with the condition then you gonna havta try a lot harder old son..x

ride like you’re naked

What do you mean like you’re naked? 🙂

That there’s a very good chance that it may reduce the severity of some low level injuries

This I agree with.

Schooling?
Was in relation to this; “and how on earth can you compare statistics between Holland and America” …which was a gift. 😀

I’m not worried or even bothered by people wearing helmets; I’m worried and bothered by people thinking that they will protect them in a serious incident. This is not backed up by any statistics or research, or even by my own experience as a cyclist or as an ITU nurse.

I’d like people to be safe, not think they are.

[/quote] you’re out of your depth here buddy..

hmmmmm, the inner child in me keeps typing away 😉

It seems that last month’s dip below 300k was a temporary aberration, and the count is back up to 302,000 :
http://www.google.com/search?q=cycle+helmet+debate

Previously on STW:

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/why-people-refuse-to-wear-helmets/page/5#postform

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/wiggo-on-helmets

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/how-do-you-deal-with-folk-not-wearing-a-helmet

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/bike-helmet-for-kids

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/the-helmet-debate-rumbles-on-in-the-mainstream-media

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/would-you-helmet-nazi-content#post-3139927

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/psa-another-study-on-the-efficacy-of-bike-helmets#post-3128520

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/thank-god-for-helmets#post-3071801

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/so-i-decided-to-write-off-my-helmet-today#post-3015561

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/will-the-uk-every-be-like-this#post-3001646

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/no-helmet#post-2983986

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/my-helmet-is-very-deformed-graphic-photo-content#post-2963127

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/the-woman-who-tragically-died-in-dent-on-the-letjog-ride#post-2956453

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/helmets-2#post-2941835

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/cyclist-hit-15-times-with-hammer-by-driverfor-riding-too-slow-up-a-hill#post-2943106

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/this-really-makes-you-want-to-wear-a-lid#post-2919841

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/good-or-bad-advert#post-2894537

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/james-cracknell-wear-a-helmet-video#post-2783611

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/bmxers-idiots#post-2758996

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/motorcyclist-protesting-helmet-laws-dies-in-bike-crash-while-not-wearing-helmet/page/3

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/wear-a-helmet-kids#post-2705179

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/psa-helmet-debate-on-radio-2-now#post-2584202

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/if-helmets-were-to-be-made-compulsory#post-2573922

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/helmet-on-your-child-always#post-2482018

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/some-very-sad-news#post-2476001

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/the-great-helmet-debate#post-2432920

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/kids-cycling-to-school-without-helmets-is-it-me-or#post-2368335

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/compulsory-helmet-law-in-ni#post-2236497

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/how-smug-will-tj-be

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/helmets-possibly-the-last-word

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/anyone-else-hear-peter-thatchel-on-jeremy-vine-calling-for-compulsary-helmets/page/2

😆

Which would sem to demonstrate that it’s not a done deal….

Erm… The earth has been proven not to be flat Rudebwoy – helmets have not been proven ineffective. Crikey, it would seem by some of your reasoning that that the evidence you require for proving or disproving helmet efficacy necessitates the occurrence of a large number of identical accidents with a single variable i.e the use of a helmet. I also remain to be convinced that your somewhat patronising use of the phrase “Next” adds any additional validity to your position, neither does your obvious entrenchment in that same sceptical position… Fine to talk of “open minds”.

I also remain to be convinced that your somewhat patronising use of the phrase “Next” adds any additional validity to your position, neither does your obvious entrenchment in that same sceptical position… Fine to talk of “open minds”.

You’ll be coming up with some evidence then, or are you just flapping them purty lips?

Tucker thanks for quoting half of my post. I must have mis read the thread title as I thought we were discussing cycle helmets rather than walking or falling down stairs helmets.

With the greatest respect your sister had a no doubt horrific accident. Don’t those two things show that sticking something on your head might just might help prevent that happening seeing as with your 47 years experience and partner who works in a big hospital has seen two relatively innocuous accidents kill one and leave another with brain damage?

We are discussing a hobby/sport where you are more likely I believe to fall than if you were either negotiating a staircase or walking.

I am not suggesting you must wear one but really really do not see the relevance of your evidence as anti helmet with your first hand experience.

I agree with some of the comments regarding “how effective are helmets”. Really we could do with better evidence but I personally choose to wear one.

which was a gift.

meh..

If you like..

I wear a lid cos I don’t like hitting my head on stuff, whether it be low branches, rocks or against brick walls

😉

hmmmmm, the inner child in me keeps typing away

powwwwwww..!!! that’s the ticket.. 😀

Not flapping my lips “purty” or otherwise… Perhaps just suggesting that your own mind is not as open as you state nor your argument any more convincing than another – despite your claims. Also I find your reference to age to be totally irrelevant. Your opinion is no more valid nor invalid because you are of greater age than others.

I wear a lid cos I don’t like hitting my head on stuff, whether it be low branches, rocks or against brick walls

Which is a perfectly reasonable reason to wear something on your head, and one with which I agree wholeheartedly. I just don’t extrapolate that to mean that a helmet will protect me in all circumstances, and therefore don’t think I should always wear one.

I’ve got 5 of the bloody things too.

you could argue the other side of the coin, that by wearing helmets etc, a false sense of safety ensues,thereby increasing the chance of an incident.
this can be seen in cars, where occupants are hurtling along at great speed yet feel totally safe, reality is that a small aberration and things change very quickly.

an old mate reckons all cars should have a spike on the steering wheel to improve concentration 😉

Not flapping my lips “purty” or otherwise… Perhaps just suggesting that your own mind is not as open as you state nor your argument any more convincing than another – despite your claims. Also I find your reference to age to be totally irrelevant. Your opinion is no more valid nor invalid because you are of greater age than others.

Do you actually have anything to add, or are you going to try to poke me all night?

However I’m with you on the fact that helmets won’t protect you from all injuries Crikey! I mentioned earlier I’ve been both injured and uninjured in crashes when wearing a helmet.

mentioned earlier I’ve been both injured and uninjured in crashes when wearing a helmet.

…that’s the thing I’m trying to get across, there does seem to be a view that a helmet will protect in every accident, when it is clear, to me at least, that they won’t.

I’d rather people rode with a sense of the potential danger they face than depend on the as-yet-unproven-ability of helmets to save them.

I just don’t extrapolate that to mean that a helmet will protect me in all circumstances

me neither.. sometimes only a wheelbarrow will do

there does seem to be a view that a helmet will protect in every accident

I dunno if you might have invented that viewpoint though..

Definately not “poking” merely pointing out that the way you are communicating does not seem to suggest open-mindedness. You also seem to suggest very forcefully that yours is the only meaningful position – I disagree. Others have a right to a given position based on their data – even if the dataset is narrow, imperfect or subjective. Surely you are not claiming to be one of a very select few holding all the valid data and by doing so understanding and drawing the only correct conclusions…?

I have no data and seriously don’t care if others use helmets, I have no axe to grind. I use a helmet as part of a cohesive approach to minimise risk – not as a panacea for all potential ills.

I don’t actually think we are far apart on our views of helmet use – maybe we have just arrived there by a different means and communicate differently.

I sometimes think that debates on the Internet get so polarised because the subtleties of communication are so easily lost…

Surely you are not claiming to be one of a very select few holding all the valid data and by doing so understanding and drawing the only correct conclusions…?

Not at all.

I reply in these threads to attempt to create some kind of balance, and to get my opposing view across. I mentioned religion because it seems that many of these conversations are populated by those who see helmet use as a completely obvious and unchallenged thing in a way that reminds me of religious views. Very few people stop and think that maybe, just maybe, the question or problem is a bit more complex than they understand.

It’s not a black and white issue.
It is not informed by ‘I cracked my helmet and therefore I’m not in a wheelchair’ type comments.
There is an interesting and informative debate to be had, but most people seem to sidestep it and go for the ‘well bang your head on a wall with a helmet, then try it without’ approach. Not that useful, really.

I don’t actually think we are far apart on our views of helmet use – maybe we have just arrived there by a different means and communicate differently.

I sometimes think that debates on the Internet get so polarised because the subtleties of communication are so easily lost…

This.

Unfortunately, and I’m as bad as the rest, we seem to have get some obligatory insults in before we reach this point!

I’m pretty bad as well!

🙂

Frigging helmet wearers 😉

I’m worse.. 😳

I’m wearing a helmet now – in case I fall out of bed.

I’m stroking my helmet.. 😕

I’ll admit to having only skimmed across the first and last pages but it seems to me that the first couple of posts were bang on (ie ‘oh hey… lets not go there!’)

I like the comments about explaining to your kids why you have double standards.

Ultimately it *is* your choice as cycle helmets are not legally required in the UK. It’s just saddening how many of those choosing to skip the helmet trot out the ’15mph’ story and think it’s clever. (as the helmet clearly offers no protection at 16mph whatsoever… 🙄 )

I’ve crashed and hit my helmetted head on many things like rocks and steel railings and completely avoided so much as bruising my head.

I didn’t particularly plan to crash but I’m not too upset I did. I learned from it.

It’s also interesting to note that most decent helmets will tell you they exceed the required standards -although granted they don’t say how much by.

Things are rarely black and white, and safety is no exception. A helmet isn’t meant to guarantee safety. It’s meant to help mitigate risk and so give you a statistically better chance of avoiding serious injury – that you will be forcing others to help you recover from, if you’re using the ‘MY CHOICE!’ argument.

Personally, I would almost without fail wear a helmet on a bike, yes even to go to the shop. There are any number of studies showing that the immediate area around your home – say a few minutes out – is quite possibly the most dangerous place you can be and the usual conclusion drawn is because people Know they are invulnerable on their own patch – demonstrably foolish, say the insurance industry.

what’s wrong with wearing a camelbck rather than a water bottle? ok it was a few pages ago but still, cmon surely camelbacks are ok, no?

my helmets got fluff on it, will it still work?

[video]http://youtu.be/07o-TASvIxY[/video]

We are discussing a hobby/sport where you are more likely I believe to fall than if you were either negotiating a staircase or walking.

Interesting belief given the stats on head injuries.

Though I really CBA arguing the stats – only one person was ever any good at that and he’s been taken from us by a higher power. Therefore I’ll present a few anecdotes – after all the helmet zealots always like to use them…

Somewhere back there somebody mentioned a person ending up with facial injuries when not wearing a helmet as a reason why not wearing one was a bad idea. Well I got severe enough facial injuries to spend 2 hours having stitches put in (under local anaesthetic – now that really is a bad idea!) and a couple of nights in hospital. I was wearing a helmet (do I sue the manufacturer?)

I also ended up with concussion and a trip to A&E after crashing in a pothole in the dark. Still don’t remember the bit between coming off my bike and ringing my gf when I got home. I wasn’t wearing a helmet – which might make you think this is an anecdote in favour of helmets, but on the contrary, the crash was of the severity to have completely destroyed a helmet had I been wearing one, yet here I am still capable of typing semi-intelligently. Which always makes me dubious about the claims of people who’ve crashed whilst wearing helmets who reckon that without one they’d be drooling.

Oh and my personal take on helmet wearing, I almost always wear one when riding a bike and my kids always wear them. However this morning riding a bike on the school run I forgot to put mine on and after a brief moment of feeling uncomfortable I got on with it and enjoyed the feeling of wind in my hair. Kids didn’t seem to notice (which suggests I don’t actually need one to set a good example – the school run being the sort of ride I don’t really need to wear a helmet for). The kid across the road isn’t wearing a helmet to ride, which makes me a little uncomfortable as he’s new to riding and likely to have the sort of crash where a helmet would help. However my generation all survived learning to ride bikes without helmets, and I’m certainly not about to even comment to them about it – would rather he was riding without a helmet than not riding (though my son who’s in his class at school did comment about it to us!)

Though I quite often don’t wear a helmet to cycle. As is usual for me I didn’t wear a helmet when cycling on the school run this evening. I only tend to wear a helmet to cycle when doing difficult off-road (not easy stuff where I’m very unlikely to fall on my head) or when riding fast on road.

I reckon my attitude to helmet wearing when cycling involves a better assessment of the real risk than my attitude to helmet wearing when riding a bike.

200!!