Rugby – Heineken cup

Afoa was always going to miss the semi, at least he will be available for the final…. 😉

Declan Fitzpatrick is a strong scrummager but has been out injured a lot this season. We could always move Court to the TH, worked well in the 6N!

I’ll have to inform Ulster rugby to intercept any food parcels with an Edinburgh postal mark then TJ!

Bump

Should be a good match. two teams with nothing to lose and hopefully not semifinal jitters.

Easier side of the draw tho I guess

The cardiff exodus carries on apace, everyone still think they tossed Henson for just ice cube chucking.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17687882

They’re not even pretending that they are going to compete next year! Is Welsh regional rugby really in that much mire (despite the obviouse advance of the national team) and if so, how long before the the national team talant base dries up?

Oddly though, Scottish regional rugby seems on a high, yet nationally….

(To Cardiff) Are you Wasps? Are you Wasps? Are you Wasps in disguise?

Sorry.

Transsap, the SRU took no lottery funding for the national stadium, so have spent the last 10 years (ie most of pro era) paying for it,with the hit on squad salaries. That is done,TJ mentions above a 3.5million budget,it is a lot more,eg Gray is off to Sale for less money than he was offered to stay. Embra and Glasgow are able to compete with the English salary wise. It is my understanding that the WRU has money troubles as it is supporting a region too many, and has a % of income from home ints that has to allocated back. There has ALWAYS been the players in Scotland, now as the SRU have 4 million a year more, these players can be developed, I work in a cluster of 7 schools in Angus. We now have a full-time DO. (And refs exs have gone up 😀 )

Ah, that’s interesting. Thanks.

The problem with the welsh regions is that the fans are not going to games. No one gives a flying shite about seeing Blues or O’s play embra, leinster, treviso etc. Only games the fans turn up to are the matches against other welsh teams and these dont happen often enough. The away games are too far away to go too and mostly the away teams dont pick their best players. The Pro 12 doesnt work for the insular welsh fans. A cross boarder comp that had proper promotion and relegation and included the english would but thats a dream at the moment.

A cross boarder comp that had proper promotion and relegation and included the english would but thats a dream at the moment.

Why on earth would the welsh want that?
All I seem to hear from them is how poor the standard of rugby is in the premiership. Why be a part of that?
I’m not sure I can ever foresee the RFU making space for the welsh teams.

That is good to know Duckman, i have wondered where all the signings were the cash for the signings was coming from. Edinburghs sigings in particular should allow them to compete a bit better during the 6N.

I think the Premiership is very defense driven, but then they have the fear of relegation and the financial implications of it which, for the most part, results in pretty poor rugby.

As an Edinburgh fan i am delighted they are in the HC semi. However, i am not sure that the fact they will be in the HC again next year even if they finish 2nd bottom of the league is right. Should it nto just be the top 6,7 teams in the league?

The problem with that is that it would mean a number of English sides would miss out on the promised land of the Premiership. Why should the Welsh sides be involved and not the Scottish? According to the rugby club, Wasps are six weeks away from being in administration and Dean Ryan claimed there were about six or seven of the top clubs in a similar boat.

Last time I looked only the likes of Tigers, Saints and Gloucester return a profit in the Premiership, although Glaws may have slipped into the red recently. Owning your own stadium (but still having to finance it) and having a large fan base helps. What average gate are these welsh regional teams getting? I’d guess Glaws in all comps has slipped from 14 to 12k in a 16.5k Stadium.

Blues & Ospreys average 7000, Scarlets 9000 (quick google)
With some very skilled internationals, how can they continue?
Lower player wages? Is this why the welsh players are going elsewhere?
If so, what will happen to Gats insistence that welsh players should be playing in wales? If they’re all over the place (france, england, scotland etc) this will affect the national team surely?

I find it worrying that the likes of the Principality only get 7k.

I tell a lie, Glos are averaging 13k this season – still down, less big, big crowds, but fewer games of less than 11k, even for dead rubbers in the lesser cup comps.

We tried the residency thing, it won’t work for Wales either. Our crowds are low. I would be interested in seeing what they were if we were playing the best in Wales, Ireland and England on a Sat pm.

Blues & Ospreys average 7000, Scarlets 9000 (quick google)
With some very skilled internationals, how can they continue?
Lower player wages? Is this why the welsh players are going elsewhere?
If so, what will happen to Gats insistence that welsh players should be playing in wales? If they’re all over the place (france, england, scotland etc) this will affect the national team surely?

1. They cant continue.
2. Yes lower wages are why the players are leaving in a flood.
3. Gatwards has given up on that thinking.
4. The welsh team will suffer.

5. To answer your earlier questions the reasons why welsh would want an Anglo-Welsh (or british) league is because it would bring the fans back, I’m fairly sure most English club supporters would like to see it too, but it wont happen.

6. Irish players are centrally contracted and get massive tax bonus to stay in ireland.
7. The scots are screwed too long term as they dont have the cash to compete either.
8. The best option might be to have centrally contracted welsh players, but that would leave the problem of lack of fans to the Pro 12 games. As an example in the last 3 years Roberts has played I think 34 games for the blues and 32 for Wales yet the blues still play his wages.
9. Another option would be to have a properly structured season with no internationals, HC games, local derbies or even any club games at the same time but this causes problems for the Aviva and Top 13 (or whatever the french league is called). For example blues v scarlets could get a big crowd but not if its halfway through the 6 nations and no internationals are available. The southern hemsphere model with the season divided into blocks with no overlap is what the welsh need but the english and french would block as it would mean reducing the number of league games.

I thought the welsh teams had head to head derbies over christmas as the scots do – good crowds for those games

8. The best option might be to have centrally contracted welsh players, but that would leave the problem of lack of fans to the Pro 12 games. As an example in the last 3 years Roberts has played I think 34 games for the blues and 32 for Wales yet the blues still play his wages.

I read about this in an interview with Warburton earlier. I believe that a PWC report into welsh rugby finances is about to come out, which might make for interesting reading.
I suppose the main question is; is the popularity of rugby in wales waning? There’s certainly a rise in the popularity of football over there, the change in the club game doesn’t seem to have gone down well and of course, wales isn’t a rich place. I doubt many can afford an away game to Biarritz.
As you say the scots are screwed and it would seem, many english clubs are too (despite pretty good crowds). Not looking good is it?

Eglish clubs need to live within their means – its crackers to run a deficit that can only be filled by a rich man giving them money. this is why the salery cap is a good thing

At least in Scotland the game is now on a decent financial footing and is sustainable

I think the rabo will continue to improve as a structure and while allegiances take take to alter and new clubs take time to build a following there are signs its happening.

Playing the rabo thru the 6N does not work however. Edinburgh in particular get hammered every year in this period as the lose most of their first team

Eglish clubs need to live within their means

I think they all do. I just don’t know how.

I thought a lot of them ran deficits?

No Teej, I meant all of the clubs not just the english ones.

I thought the welsh teams had head to head derbies over christmas as the scots do – good crowds for those games

There are more welsh teams than Scots, so not all the derbies are played during non-international window.

think the rabo will continue to improve as a structure and while allegiances take take to alter and new clubs take time to build a following there are signs its happening.

not in wales.
The game still has the following its just the teams do not and are not delivering games the fans want to see.

TJ, the teams that get a hard time while the internationals are away has been an issue of the English clubs for years. However, Leicester (one of the hardest affected recently) voted to keep playing through six nations, autumn int and world cups as they wanted a continuous revenue stream and they certainly were not alone. Not sure if the Rabo have had a similar vote, but would not be surprised.
Interestingly Leicester (historicly boring, forward dominated rugby in everyone’s opinion) got an average of over 20k people last season. Why the massive differance I wonder?

Because they have traditional clubs with traditional rivals and away fans can easily get to games. Maybe the clubs want to keep going throughout the season because thats what the sponsors and sky want?

transap – Leicester will lose half a dozen from a strong and deep squad, Edinburgh lose 1a dozen from a shallow and weak squad. Its a huge differnce. I don’t think it happened this year but in previous years Edinburgh have had to co opt players from amateur sides just to make up a match day 22

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/cardiff-blues/2012/04/14/cardiff-blues-sign-campese-as-part-of-double-swoop-in-wake-of-exodus-91466-30754224/

Blues have signed some bloke named after a bloke who was good and some bloke I’ve never heard of. Do they really think it will solve their two problems 1. No one is intrested and 2. There shit. Not sure a fijian prop will be the answer to losing gethin and yapp.

Welsh fans are so tribal it is ruining the game which is just typical. I support the Ospreys before that I was a Whites fan. Loads of Neath boys wont go to the Liberty stadium because it is in Swansea. They support the Os but wont go to the games. It is the same in Newport Ebbw Vale fans wont go down and support the Dragons. No one wants to support the Blues 😉 Warriors vanished so where do they all the Pontypridd and Bridgend fans go?

The Liberty doesnt help an awful place to watch rugby. I love going to Kingsholme becuause it has a great atmosphere.

Down in Turkland they have a great atmosphere but I would never go down there and that makes me part of the problem 😳

Ok, so we are saying that in Wales, regional rugby is killing the game. No fans = less money = uncompetitive squads = loosing games = less people want to watch (and less people want to play…)
What budget have the welsh regions been competing on and is that a lot less than ap clubs?
The larger ap clubs do have big squads, still struggle to compete with French and Irish sides, (although are returning a profit so I assume it’s sustainable) so I can’t see this ending well for welsh rugby overall. How bloody depressing, I used to love the Anglo welsh cup clashes!

Ap salary cap is 4.5 million and welsh cap 3.5 I think. Large proportion of welsh funding comes from WRU which means Gatwards have a big influence on who plays where. For example 1/2p at full back and kicking goals. Lots of owner cash was ploughed into blues and ospreys in the hope it would attract enough fans. It didnt and now the money has run out

brilliant, who needs shane?
http://i41.tinypic.com/o5apug.gif
http://i39.tinypic.com/25flooo.gif

Banahan useless swamp donkey 😆

How on earth did he get near a national side!

Now Im no fan of the team who’s name is an alternative to a shower but I think he’s not a bad player. Mcgeechan agrees.

I can see the wRec from my kitchen window, and I’m no fan!!

I just think that a bloke that size ought to be able to cause some damage to defences, and be able to posibly tackel…

Got to remember McGeechan thinks Flatman can scrummage!

He is a very bad player, has appropriate physical gifts but is crap. Well crap is harsh but he is well below international class. Do we need to show him failing to beat shane from five m out with plenty of space?

http://m.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/top-rugby-stories/court-date-for-toulouse-player-yoann-maestri-over-alleged-fan-assault-1-2234328

what did you say to the nice young man TJ?

wisnae me. a big boy did it and ran away

This is a very sad tale. I reckon theres a lot more than him on the steriods. Much like cycling a while back the big names have it planned out properly so they dont get caught i think.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17731143

Got my final tickets today……..who do you think will be in it?