Overtaking.

I don’t want somebody, who’s been considering (do I?/don’t I?) a move for the past 30 seconds, dawdling out in front of me, requiring me to slow down on the off-side of the road.
Yeah that’s why queue jumping can be risky…

But if the person pulling out late were checking their mirrors before commencement of the overtake manoeuvre (not do I/don’t I, check mirrors, have a look up the road again, mental calculation, another few do I/don’t I moments & then pull out..note time passed since 1st mirror check), there wouldn’t be an issue.
If I make a pass requiring more than one vehicle to be passed, then it factors into that calculation…what if?
The issue is some have different speed/distance/car performance perception than others & make that decision at different rates, meaning car A could already be well on its way through an overtake before car B has made a decision.
If you’re plodding, let others go & make it as easy as you can – I find it less stressful & consider it safer than having a car inches from being embedded in my rear bumper as I drive along. If you want to get on, then be decisive.

Interesting to see the assumption by many that anyone overtaking is a rage fuelled lunatic; says a lot more about them than the overtaker.

Nothing wrong with overtaking more than one vehicle at once either.
I’ve done it before with no drama on fen roads with miles of visibility.

The idea that I must be suffering from uncontrollable fury is pretty amusing as I picture myself pootling along in my little red Micra, complete with flower stickers all over it and with Otis Redding on the stereo (not too loud).
🙂

molgrips – Member
It frequently happens that I see clear road, signal, look in my mirror,

Mirror, signal, manoeuvre old chap. 😉

You do sound very angry, maybe the roads aren’t for you?

I’m not angry unless someone pushes in front of me. It’d make me (and most people) angry in the supermarket, why not on the roads?

molgrips – Member

I’m not angry unless someone pushes in front of me. It’d make me (and most people) angry in the supermarket, why not on the roads?

Anything that could cloud your judgement on the roads is bad. Take solace in reacting safely to other people’s bad driving, rather than getting wound up.
🙂

I seem to remember a similar thread maybe a year ago then went down the exact same cul de sac.

Can we have the giraffe back?

molgrips – Member

It’s a flow of traffic, not a queue. You don’t have a spot.

Disagree.

Why would it not be a queue? If we’re all waiting to overtake, and have been sat there for 10 mins, why should you get to go first when you’ve only just arrived?

Molegrips, have you read the highway code regarding, overtaking? I suggest you do and maybe you won’t get so frustrated in the future. Here it is below for reference. Nothing about having to wait in a ‘check out style queue’ as you put it. These are the official rules – not some self made moral guide that you insist on adhering to.

138. Before overtaking you should make sure

• the road is sufficiently clear ahead
• the vehicle behind is not beginning to overtake you
• there is a suitable gap in front of the vehicle you plan to overtake.

139. Overtake only when it is safe to do so. You should

• not get too close to the vehicle you intend to overtake
use your mirrors, signal when it is safe to do so, take a quick sideways glance into the blind spot area and then start to move out
• not assume that you can simply follow a vehicle ahead which is overtaking; there may only be enough room for one vehicle move quickly past the vehicle you are overtaking, once you have started to overtake. Allow plenty of room. Move back to the left as soon as you can but do not cut in
• take extra care at night and in poor visibility when it is harder to judge speed and distance
• give way to oncoming vehicles before passing parked vehicles or other obstructions on your side of the road
• only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so
• stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left
• give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would a car when overtaking (see Rules 188, 189 and 191.

140. Large vehicles. Overtaking these is more difficult. You should

• drop back to increase your ability to see ahead. Getting too close to large vehicles will obscure your view of the road ahead and there may be another slow moving vehicle in front
• make sure that you have enough room to complete your overtaking manoeuvre before committing yourself. It takes longer to pass a large vehicle. If in doubt do not overtake
• not assume you can follow a vehicle ahead which is overtaking a long vehicle. If a problem develops, they may abort overtaking and pull back in.

141. You MUST NOT overtake

• if you would have to cross or straddle double white lines with a solid line nearest to you (but see Rule 108)
• if you would have to enter an area designed to divide traffic, if it is surrounded by a solid white line
• the nearest vehicle to a pedestrian crossing, especially when it has stopped to let pedestrians cross
• if you would have to enter a lane reserved for buses, trams or cycles during its hours of operation
• after a ‘No Overtaking’ sign and until you pass a sign cancelling the restriction.

142. DO NOT overtake if there is any doubt, or where you cannot see far enough ahead to be sure it is safe. For example, when you are approaching

• a corner or bend
• a hump bridge
• the brow of a hill.

143. DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example

• approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road
• where the road narrows
• when approaching a school crossing patrol
• between the kerb and a bus or tram when it is at a stop
• where traffic is queuing at junctions or road works
• when you would force another vehicle to swerve or slow down
• at a level crossing
• when a vehicle is indicating right, even if you believe the signal should have been cancelled. Do not take a risk; wait for the signal to be cancelled.

144. Being overtaken. If a driver is trying to overtake you, maintain a steady course and speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle pass. Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass. Speeding up or driving unpredictably while someone is overtaking you is dangerous. Drop back to maintain a two-second gap if someone overtakes and pulls into the gap in front of you.

145. Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are driving a large or slow moving vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently, and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass.

In 20 years we will look back in amazement that humans were allowed to control vehicles, hopefully.

not some self made moral guide that you insist on adhering to.

Well there is nothing in the rules about queueing nicely at the checkout either, but it’s still considered important.

Thanks for the highway code spam, but it’s not really relevant.

I’m with the OP on this one. I have a 1hr 30 minute commute via car. If I do not take opportunities to overtake, briskly pull out at roundabouts and take every opportunity to ‘make progress’ then my commute can easily become 2hrs+
Yes I could leave earlier, but where do you draw the line? Leave 3 hours for the commute in case you get stuck behind a tractor? No. The journey takes an hour at a weekend, and 1hr 30 mins midweek providing you crack on, within the law that is.
As for making progress, you are actively encouraged when you do your bike test to make progress, get up to the speed limit swiftly and safely, and you will fail if you don’t. The reason for this is that on a bike you put yourself at risk by not driving at or close to the limit.

I still maintain that the roads would be a far safer place if everyone had to pass a motorcycle test. You realise very quickly how vulnerable you are and how simple things can put you at risk.

Thanks for the highway code spam, but it’s not really relevant.

WTF – are you serious? Perhaps you should educate the 30 million other drivers to your ‘alternative highway code’ then so that they know what to expect before incurring your road rage out on the road.

For your information, when a duel carridgeway merges into one lane then the highway code says to use both lanes fully then merge in turn at the obstruction. This is to make the traffic flow as smooth as possible.

It doesn’t say everyone must queue in the left lane causing obstructions on the slip roads. With your logic I bet you’re the kind of driver who thinks it’s your moral obligation to sit straddling both lanes to prevent people from sneaking round on the right? If you are then you need to get real – not only are you ignoring the highway code but you’re acting like a selfish spoilt child.

I bet you’re the kind of driver who

Bet away. You seem like the kind of person to make sweeping assumptions about people you don’t know. It’s not a good idea. Especially when you are inventing things you think I’ve done to have extra stuff to moan about.

My complaints are about common decency, and that’s not usually covered in the highway code. That’s why I’m saying it’s a red herring.

Why would it not be a queue? If we’re all waiting to overtake

Because you’re not.

If it’s a queue, why is anybody allowed to overtake? What happened to the right of the person at the front of the queue to get served first?

Because you’re not.

I am.

I’ve said as much repeatedly.

I’m with the OP on this one. I have a 1hr 30 minute commute via car.

There’s your problem. Poor life decisions. 😛

The highway code also says that if you are being overtaken, you should slow down if necessary to let the other car complete the manoeuvre safely, and then pull back to allow a 2-second gap between you and the car in front.

I am.

I’ve said as much repeatedly.

You said “we”. I’ll bet not everybody in your “queue” is going to.

Though I still don’t understand why you’re struggling so much to differentiate between the idiots you have a problem with and those people on this thread who will wait for people in front of them to have a go at overtaking first, and will give those in front of them a chance to pull out (but still want to overtake the line of cars, so will overtake using multiple attempts).

grum – Member

I’m with the OP on this one. I have a 1hr 30 minute commute via car.

There’s your problem. Poor life decisions.

Best decision I ever made. I’ve gone from an employee to a company director and share holder within 3 years, because of this move. 😛

I think a big part of the problem here is that everyone (but especially people on STW) thinks they are above average in terms of driving skill/competence. So everyone thinks the way they drive must be safe/correct.

Pretty sure there was some research recently showing many people perceive themselves to be good drivers, but this wasn’t backed up by actual driving standards.

Best decision I ever made. I’ve gone from an employee to a company director and share holder within 3 years, because of this move.

If money is that important I guess. Personally there’s no amount you could pay me to spend 3-4 hours a day driving on congested roads.

Pretty sure there was some research recently showing many people perceive themselves to be good drivers, but this wasn’t backed up by actual driving standards.

Any statistics for IAM drivers? 🙂

^^ spot on grum!

grum – Member

I think a big part of the problem here is that everyone (but especially people on STW) thinks they are above average in terms of driving skill/competence. So everyone thinks the way they drive must be safe/correct.

Pretty sure there was some research recently showing many people perceive themselves to be good drivers, but this wasn’t backed up by actual driving standards.

Best decision I ever made. I’ve gone from an employee to a company director and share holder within 3 years, because of this move.

If money is that important I guess. Personally there’s no amount you could pay me to spend 3-4 hours a day driving on congested roads.

Umm. I don’t remember moaning about my commute, which you said was a poor life decision. I used it as an example! And you’re assuming that my move was motivated by money! But no probs. I’m happy which is what counts. 🙂

Though I still don’t understand why you’re struggling so much to differentiate between the idiots you have a problem with and those people on this thread who will wait for people in front of them to have a go at overtaking first

The same reason they are assuming I’m a dangerous dawdler who has no clue.

I still get overtaken when I’m next in line to overtake and clearly moving out to look down the road. I also get overtaken when I’m two or three back, and am intending to overtake.

If you are in favour of queue jumping, do you think I should overtake all the cars in front of me until I am at the front? But what if the cars in front of me also want to overtake? They then should overtake me back?

Do you think that this would be a safe way of dealing with slow traffic? Everyone trying to pass everyone else to get to the front? If your answer is no, which it should be, then it has become a queue hasn’t it?

Dunno darcy, I can make some up if you like? 🙂

Umm. I don’t remember moaning about my commute, which you said was a poor life decision.

My point is, you were suggesting you have to do what sounds like driving a bit aggressively, because of the length of your commute. I was pointing out that the length of your commute is a choice you’ve made.

Yes, it is a choice/decsion whatever you want to call it, but it is also a good and positive one. Not a poor one as was suggested, otherwise I’d make the decision/choice to change it! 😛

Thanks for the highway code spam, but it’s not really relevant.

No, I can clearly see why the rules and guidelines governing the use of the road for all users wouldn’t be relevant to someone as sanctimonious as yourself.

Someone mentioned 30 million drivers. That’s an awful lot of cars with which we have to share our crowded roads. It’s no wonder the driving gods get a bit wound up…especially with a driver of average skill.

deadlydarcy – Member

Any statistics for IAM drivers?

Advanced drivers are less likely to crash. 🙂

I’ve read the OP and agree, can’t be bothered to read the other 8 pages as I’m guessing they are full of the folk who don’t/can’t overtake.

And the more power you’ve got, the more places are safe to overtake. My wife’s car has 100bhp and needs long straights and good visability, my car has 250bhp so needs far less.
M/C’s can pretty much overtake anywhere, been so quick and skinny.

Anyway its not speed that’s the problem, it’s crap driving. This morning I did 140 miles, with 120 of them on fast single carriageway A roads mostly running 60-80mph. And the only ‘incident’ I saw was two cars that had crashed at a local T junction in a 40 limit. One was turning right across traffic and an old gimmer just ran straight into them. Did they see them, were they actually looking? Gawd knows.

sbob – Member

Advanced drivers are less likely to crash.

…but they are also a self-selecting group.

I have an IAM certificate and a lapsed membership.

deadlydarcy – Member

It’s no wonder the driving gods get a bit wound up

Who are these “driving gods” that keep getting mentioned?
Is it those that understand their driving can be improved, and seek to improve it?
Or is it those that don’t need improvement, who coincidently drive Audis, work in IT and ride Orange 5s?
🙂

I’m talking about being PREVENTED from going when I could have gone, because someone else has stolen my spot.

Stolen? Surely if you are ahead on the road, you see a passing opportunity before the cars behind you…be that a clear straight ahead as you come out of a corner, or after an oncoming vehicle has passed you by. With this being the case, can you blame the person behind for being more pro-active & decisive in their overtake if they are alongside you as you intend to pull out?
If you’ve reacted as quickly, all I can think is you have an underpowered car & you have struggled to accelerate prior to moving out to pass the vehicle ahead, giving the vehicle behind the impression you’re not overtaking & they have taken the opportunity to pass.
If for the sake of a second as they blast by, you are then unable to overtake, it would be questionable if the original overtake manoeuvre was safe.
Seems I may be in trouble with some here, as my car has a “pie-chart” in the front, but I’ll make this point again – there are places that my car will safely pass, where I wouldn’t even consider it in the wifes car (Seat Leon…not that it is in any way a slouch on the roads). Actual car performance has to be factored in to the overtake, along with speed travelling, distance to pass & overtake distance available, road conditions & weather…all factor in the calculation you make.

I still get overtaken when I’m next in line to overtake and clearly moving out to look down the road. I also get overtaken when I’m two or three back, and am intending to overtake.

Well if you’re not dawdling, then I wouldn’t be overtaking you in those circumstances, and I doubt most of the people on this thread would either. Is it OK for us to overtake people waiting in a line who aren’t showing any signs of intending to overtake, and clearly aren’t ever going to, who aren’t you?

Though I’m slightly confused as you mention intending to overtake when you’re 2 or 3 cars back – don’t you wait your turn in the queue behind those in front of you?

If you are in favour of queue jumping, do you think I should overtake all the cars in front of me until I am at the front? But what if the cars in front of me also want to overtake? They then should overtake me back?

Do you think that this would be a safe way of dealing with slow traffic? Everyone trying to pass everyone else to get to the front?

I still get overtaken when I’m next in line to overtake and clearly moving out to look down the road. I also get overtaken when I’m two or three back, and am intending to overtake.

Then maybe you should MTFU, hurry up and just get on with it – otherwise don’t complain when someone else takes the oppertunity that was staring you clearly in the face for a few seconds. If you’re intent on an overtake then clearly you’re taking far too long to decide if people further behind you in the ‘queue’ as you put it are already overtaking before you’ve had the chance to think about it. The problem it would seem is you not being clear in your communication or slow to make an assessment of the situation, not the other drivers.

A friend of mine would always hesitate at the bar when it came to chatting up the ladies. He would chat to them, buy them drinks but never really make a clear move. Normally some other bloke would steam in there from under his nose, make a move and he went home empty handed again. My mate was always annoyed, but the reality was that he didn’t own the girl or the right to make the first move just because he spoke to her first. Same with driving – just being stuck first behind a truck doesn’t give you automatic first rights to overtake. That’s why it says in the highway code to always check behind you before starting an overtake – just in case someone else is also overtaking. It’s not rude – it’s expected and part of normal driving.

No, I can clearly see why the rules and guidelines governing the use of the road for all users wouldn’t be relevant to someone as sanctimonious as yourself.

Oh for christ’s sake.

Some things are not covered in the rules, obviously.

Either deliberately or subconsciously you are interpreting my posts as indicating my stupidity and poor driving skills, because the thread is a conflict situation. Which is why you felt the need to quote the highway code at me. However if you take a step back you should be able to see that you’re not really making a useful contribution.

Obviously the highway code is relevant to good driving. This is extremely obvious, so making out that I’m saying it’s not relevant at all is just irritating.

What I am saying is that the instructions contained within the highway code, whilst valid, do not extend towards human courtesy and decency, in this case.

otherwise don’t complain when someone else takes the oppertunity that was staring you clearly in the face for a few seconds

Why on earth are you leaping to the defence of a hypothetical person you’ve never met or even seen?

Molgrips

If I was so sure I was right, despite all the evidence and input here, not least your dismissal of The Highway Code, I would be having a serious look at myself and driving standards.

Any particular reason or training/assessment which you feel entitles you to hold this position?

Or are you just common or garden trolling?

Which is why you felt the need to quote the highway code at me.

I didn’t

However if you take a step back you should be able to see that you’re not really making a useful contribution.

I can see quite clearly that your attitude as portrayed here has a lot to do with the problem. This is probably more helpful than your attitude itself i.e. your posts

Obviously the highway code is relevant to good driving. This is extremely obvious, so making out that I’m saying it’s not relevant at all is just irritating.

But then:

Thanks for the highway code spam, but it’s not really relevant.

Make your mind up – you could at least hold a position that’s coherent on the one page!

What I am saying is that the instructions contained within the highway code, whilst valid, do not extend towards human courtesy and decency, in this case.

Which aren’t really relevant in the context of the OP

HTH

So rebe12, would you say that overtaking is like making love to a beautiful women ?

What I am saying is that the instructions contained within the highway code, whilst valid, do not extend towards human courtesy and decency, in this case.

It would sound as though human courtesy might be to allow people who want to travel faster and might be in a hurry to make progress and do so, not selfishly impede their progress just because you’re high and mightily first in the queue hogging the oppertunity by moving out to have a look all the time but never actually overtaking. The solution is simple – if you want to overtake just get on with it and do it. No one is stopping you. Either that or get a faster car so many more oppertunities are possible. Honestly you wouldn’t believe the difference in overtaking ability my Porsche 911 has compared to an average repmobile.

hels – Member

So rebe12, would you say that overtaking is like making love to a beautiful women ?

No, both are much fun but I prefer to take my time with a beautiful woman 😉

However if you take a step back you should be able to see that you’re not really making a useful contribution.

And your entrenched repetitive dogma is, I presume, at least in your head!

It’s a pity TJ isn’t still here as he had the stamina and similar mindset to save everyone the tedium of arguing the same point ad nauseum with you