Lance, latest have we done it yet.

How comes what Lance did is condemned and what Coppi did is fine?
It’s exactly the same thing and following his admission, it would only be fair if Coppi had his wins struck from the records.

hora – name one other “previous great” in cycling who is accused of systematically cheating to become one of the biggest sporting names in the world, who has used his position to bully people who speak out (and ruin careers) and whose influence with the sport’s governing body raises questions about their impartiality.

I don’t really care about wins being struck from the records, it’s just the constant denial in the face of mounting evidence that gets me.

If he’d retired and then said ‘yeah I was off my tits and this is how you could’ve caught me’ I’d have more respect for him now.

In fact, that’s probably a good way of encouraging ex-dopers to come forward, immunity if you’ve retired. I know that it means they’ve effectively gotten away with it, but at least it closes loopholes for the future.

How comes what Lance did is condemned and what Coppi did is fine

Just my opinion here, but in the days of Coppi, Stablinski, Anquetil. It was pretty much business as usual. For them drugs were part of the sport.

In the 90s, it was well understood that the sport was ment to be free of artifical enhancement.

Just my opinion here, but in the days of Coppi, Stablinski, Anquetil. It was pretty much business as usual. For them drugs were part of the sport.

Eh, so a two-tiered system. It was fine then/turn a blind-eye but not now.

What constitutes 100% evidence Hora?

Eh, so a two-tiered system. It was fine then/turn a blind-eye but not now.

I was making a distinction between the olden days and the modern era.

Anquetil seemed to be convinced that drugs were an acceptable part of the sport and should be allowed. Hence Coppi’s relaxed and frank admission about his use of drugs.

It was fine then/turn a blind-eye but not now.

Except there was no blind eye to turn, it was totally open and everyone knew about it.

Except there was no blind eye to turn, it was totally open and everyone knew about it.

You mean French Journalists, homebrew website conspirasists and cheating cyclists who had been caught who wanted to say ‘hey its just not me-please blame everyone else as well’?

Why would you trust a cheats testimony? Its tainted.

it was different in that there were no actual rules banning the use of drugs alcohol cigarettes etc…

THey did seem to draw the line at using the train though…

You mean French Journalists, homebrew website conspirasists and cheating cyclists who had been caught who wanted to say ‘hey its just not me-please blame everyone else as well’?

Why would you trust a cheats testimony? Its tainted.

I’m not sure that I follow this line – presumably we are back on the “evidence” relating to LA?

Where does the testing laboratory sit amongst your “cheats testimony”. Presumably you do accept the results of their analyses?

Where does the testing laboratory sit amongst your “cheats testimony”. Presumably you do accept the results of their analyses?

Oh- so they have guilty samples now ready to go?

Do keep up, hora

What are you talking about ‘the samples that were taken but werent found positive but were but didnt charge because it was a ‘conspiracy’ in 2001′? Jesus wept.

it was different in that there were no actual rules banning the use of drugs alcohol cigarettes etc…

I get that….but they still took drugs. If we ignore the official standpoint and regulations, it still makes their achievements comparable. They won/competed in the manner they did due to artificial enhancement. I got no horse in this race maybe playing devils advocate a little…;but I’m not really arsed about LA or Coppi.

Lance was still an active competitor until he got banned pending this hearing.

Maybe if he had had some humility and sense he would have stayed retired the first time and none of this would have happened.

But instead his “sticking two fingers up to the world”, worlds most tested althlete BS has egged people on and its coming back to bite him.

There is no doubt that the chase against him is fueled by it being “Lance Armstrong” but he has brought this upon himself. He reaped more rewards than anyone else from the deceitful period of cycling so it is right he also loses the most if he was cheating, which based on the evidence it seems almost certainly he was.

Oh- so they have guilty samples now ready to go?

Eehhh???

My question was a follow up to your comment. You used the term “cheats testimony”.

I was asking whether you regarded an accredited analytical laboratory as being within that category – ie “cheats testimony”.

The sample results they have produced are just that, sample results. A series of chemical concentrations against a sample number. To me, those lab results are “facts”…

(I’m going to go on the other thread and ask for a [TROLL] Button)

<wanders in>

Good grief, are you lot still at it?

<wanders out again>

I know this is over-simplistic but…. another difference between the Coppi era and the Armstrong era is that the drugs were different. In Coppi’s day people took drugs to allow them to continue to perform at their best whereas in the Armstrong era drugs were used to push performance past normal levels.

Why would you trust a cheats testimony? Its tainted

No idea Hora, why do you believe Lance?

Your hilarious a mixture of he did not do it, it would taint the sport [ yes for knowing he cheated and ignoring it would be so much more honourable], just let it go it s the past and discrediting everyone but LA [ like he would have no motive to deny it if is true he cheated]

Hora – I don’t know if anyone has said this yet but I think STW is collectively preparing the worlds biggest ‘nah nah nah nah nah nah we told you so’ just for you.

For anyone who wants to get up to speed, might take a while 😯

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/index-of-lance-armstrong-doping-allegations-over-the-years

He is now banned for life and his 7 Tour vivtorys taken off him and he still won’t admit he doped .

it’s a shame,as i did have a lot of respect for him overcoming cancer to ride again in tdf.but i think the punishment is fair (as he was cheating not only himself,but everyone who were fans of him also 🙁

He is now banned for life and his 7 Tour vivtorys taken off him and he still won’t admit he doped .

Note sure the USADA has the authority to do this, and the UCI heirachy are as big a fan of LA as Phil L and Paul S, or Hora (although I think LA only donated $100K to the UCI).

Armstrong’s base claim “I never tested positive” is false (retrospective TUE certificate made that one disappear) and sets the tone for his level of argument.

Flippin’ eck

He really did not want the shaming of evidence heard in court

Link

Note sure the USADA has the authority to do this,

I reckon this is the new angle they are taking. Like speeding in on the continent, no power to give you points at home.

Waits for the first Lance Defence in the forum

That’s Lance done. Who’s next… Hincappie. Shame we can’t bust all the greats.
Indurain, Hainault, Merckx et al

Sad sad day.

They cant take away his titles.
Who else can they give them to. They were all doping.

Don’t care whether he doped or not, most other top guys of that era doped so he either beat them clean or was on a level playing field, no harm done….the problem of that era was cycling culture itself, not Lance Armstrong.

One thing I do hope that happens is for the UCI to put USADA back in their box.
The UCI need to tell USADA they are a doping agency and nothing more and that USADA don’t have the authority to strip UCI awarded titles….it will make my day if the UCI tell the Yanks to poke it and allow Lance’s results to stand.

Can’t help but think that pro cycling is a farce. It will be real shame if this “witch hunt” starts and ends with Armstrong. The “authorities” should go after every cheat and strip them of their titles.

Next on the list – after all they were much better than the rest

The UCI need to tell USADA they are a doping agency and nothing more and that USADA don’t have the authority to strip UCI awarded titles

This is the bigger problem – who’s actually running the show.

mikewsmith. Those guys are nice, so no problem there. One of the big issues (and I know this sounds childish) but it seems it was the way he was off the bike that people didn’t like.
Yet for some reason the likes of Pantani are worshiped? and there’s a memorial to Simpson, who after all brought the greatest shame to the sport.

sad day for cycling imo

So, as predicted on this forum a couple of days ago we now have LALA the martyr.
None of the evidence has been put into the public domain unfortunately and we can still hear that most famous of cycling sound bites ‘most tested athlete, never positive’ again and again even though we know both statements are false.

A great day for those who rode and ride clean.
Without showing the past stars as the lying cheating bullies they are the sport cannot progress with a non doping future.
Getting away with it sends out the message that it’s ok to dope.

Next on the list – after all they were much better than the rest

Except they are not much better than the dopers of the past, their power output and climb times are lower than the dopers.

TBH

as there has not been any evidence formerly presented and the arguments etc not tested in court there is only 1 person who truly knows what happened and unless someone in here was Lances secret live in lover or he chooses to tell people we will not actually know. People will speculate either way.

Once a conspiracy is declared it is nearly impossible to make it go away.

A sad day for sport really. Governing bodies is p*ssing contests, rumour and peculation rife.

(If the USADA did get confessions from the other riders saying they saw and partook in drug taking they should be banned and publically shamed too.)

10 of former teammates are going to testify, somehow I don’t think he’s going to get an easy ride, it’s not like he can pick up the phone and call McQuaid to make things rosy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19364384
Game over.