Lance, latest have we done it yet.

Nice selective quoting there aracer.

Wrecker – sure;y you a re either having a laugh, or haven’t read the story at all.

Vilifying fellow riders. Threatening to ruin people’s lives. Invoking his own life-threatening cancer as a defence against the very idea that he would put something dodgy into his body… He’s done plenty to put him far and above (well, below) other riders.

apart from being a dickhead he’s not done much that a great number of cyclists haven’t, before and since.

We’re not just talking about ‘being a dickhead’ though. I mean to me ‘being a dickhead’ is someone who, say, is a bit mouthy or full of themselves, or who never buys a round despite being minted, that kind of thing.

Systematic cheating to win millions of dollars, bullying and threatening and using your considerable power to ruin the careers/businesses of those who oppose you, raising the ‘cancer shield’ at every opportunity – goes a bit beyond ‘being a dickhead’ imo. You can choose not to believe that stuff of course.

Nice selective quoting there aracer.

I’m sorry – which bits of what you wrote should I have included in to change the context? I’ll try again if you like…

Once more. I have no dog in this race, I don’t care about Lance Armstrong, Bradley Wiggins, Contador or any other rider. I just find the sudden popularity of the LA hatefest unpalatable, when from what I can tell; apart from being a dickhead he’s not done much that a great number of cyclists haven’t, before and since.

Well if you ignore the hounding of Simeoni and Bassons (and Betsy Andreu etc.), being very much in charge of his team’s doping programme, encouraging team-mates to dope and disenfranchising those who weren’t willing to get with the programme, then yes you’re probably right. All very unfair on poor old Lance.

While Mr. Weisel and company have been consolidating their control of USA Cycling and shaping it to suit their interests, he has been less successful in fending off federal investigations of crooked dealings by his investment firm, Thomas Weisel Partners, which has now been forced to pay a $12.5 million fine following a lengthy investigation by the Securities and Exchange Commission. So the world continues to turn and USAC members continue to allow Weisel to run their sport to suit his interests. At least for now.

http://www.cyclismas.com/2012/06/lance-armstrongs-business-links-a-flowchart-by-dimspace/

It’s really, really, really not about the bike.

Systematic cheating to win millions of dollars, bullying and threatening and using your considerable power to ruin the careers/businesses of those who oppose you, raising the ‘cancer shield’ at every opportunity – goes a bit beyond ‘being a dickhead’ imo. You can choose not to believe that stuff of course.

Good points and the cheating is a given although that falls into this basket rather than the dickhead one;

he’s not done much that a great number of cyclists haven’t, before and since.

There’s no doubt he’s an aggressive bully but I find the rest of it a bit, well…word-of-mouth-ey.

but I find the rest of it a bit, well…word-of-mouth-ey.

Or as the rest of the world tends to call it, eye-witness testimony…

Don’t forget, a considerable amount of the evidence given to USADA was also proferred, seperately, to the Jeff Novitsky federal inquiry. This means the very real possibility of going to jail for lying, or as we call it, perjury.

There’s no doubt he’s an aggressive bully but I find the rest of it a bit, well…word-of-mouth-ey.

But short of him confessing (which he’s shown no indication of wanting to do) how can you get away from eye witnesses blowing the whistle?

There’s no doubt he’s an aggressive bully but I find the rest of it a bit, well…word-of-mouth-ey.

Betsy Andreu had an answerphone message left saying ‘I hope someone breaks a baseball bat over your head’ after she revealed the infamous hospital story. This isn’t word of mouth, the actual recording was handed over to investigators apparently. Her honesty has also cost her thousands in legal fees.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-10-11/news/34393425_1_betsy-andreu-usada-journalist-david-walsh

What evidence would convince you?

word-of-mouth-ey

“Word of mouthy” would be some bloke down the pub telling you that their mate’s cousin is a water bottle holder for a pro cycling team and there are rumours LA is on the fiddle.

However for LA we have the highest available level of authority using 26 eyewitnesses each giving sworn testomony, under penalty of purjury, and significant physical evidence, including evidence of syntheic EPO in LAs blood using a sample taken from before the was a test available, that LA was a dirty doping cheat.

So in short its a little bit more robust that “word-of-mouth-ey”.

So in short its a little bit more robust that “word-of-mouth-ey”.

You need to read the thread buddy. Nobody is suggesting that LA is not a cheat.

Betsy Andreu had an answerphone message left saying ‘I hope someone breaks a baseball bat over your head’ after she revealed the infamous hospital story. This isn’t word of mouth, the actual recording was handed over to investigators apparently. Her honesty has also cost her thousands in legal fees.

Not trying to make light of this but isn’t this the behaviour of an aggressive bully or even a dickhead?

I call troll.

It’s clear that wrecker either has no understanding of the issues, or has an understanding but is yanking the chain.

Live strong dude.

You need to read the thread buddy

Pot, this is kettle calling, what colour would you describe this text as?

Nobody is suggesting that LA is not a cheat.

But you appear to be suggesting that some of the allegations made against him aren’t true. Or if that’s not the case, maybe you could explain to us exactly what you do mean by “I find the rest of it a bit, well…word-of-mouth-ey.”

Not trying to make light of this but isn’t this the behaviour of an aggressive bully or even a dickhead?

So what you’re saying here is that all the facets of Armstrong’s behaviour which makes him so much worse than the rest is covered by “dickhead”?

From the Oakley press release

When Lance joined our family many years ago, he was a symbol of possibility. We are deeply saddened by the outcome, but look forward with hope to athletes and teams of the future who will rekindle that inspiration by racing clean, fair and honest.

Ouch. Good luck with that

Well. You are trying to make light of it!

It is clearly different to other riders, and rightly gets more attention. He has singlehandedly invalidated 7 years of TdF history, and tainted the sport forever. Millions of people bought the great story and took him to be the saviour of cycling following the absolutely dire Festina days. Turns out he was the opposite.

Not trying to make light of this but isn’t this the behaviour of an aggressive bully or even a dickhead?

Well it’s bit more than that I’d say, more criminal intimidation/gangster type behaviour.

So you’re saying you believe that he’s an arsehole (stronger word than dickhead?) but you don’t believe he bullied other people into taking drugs? Why?

Well it’s bit more than that I’d say, more criminal intimidation/gangster type behaviour.

Yeah, you’re probably right there.

So you’re saying you believe that he’s an arsehole (stronger word than dickhead?) but you don’t believe he bullied other people into taking drugs? Why?

Please correct me if I’m wrong Grum, but isn’t everyone who’s accused him of pushing drugs a convicted drugs cheat? Have most/all not been given a favorable deal from USADA?

If LArmstrong et al were doing something significant, rather than just pedalling a bike around different countries, all this might be worth arguing about.

😀

Please correct me if I’m wrong Grum, but isn’t everyone who’s accused him of pushing drugs a convicted drugs cheat?

No they are not.

As you would know if you had read any of the evidence against him.

Please correct me if I’m wrong Grum, but isn’t everyone who’s accused him of pushing drugs a convicted drugs cheat? Have most/all not been given a favorable deal from USADA?

You are wrong of the 26 witnesses who testified against him, only 11 were riders.

Please correct me if I’m wrong Grum, but isn’t everyone who’s accused him of pushing drugs a convicted drugs cheat? Have most/all not been given a favorable deal from USADA?

Consider yourself corrected. 🙂

He has singlehandedly invalidated 7 years of TdF history

To be fair I have to find him not guilty of that charge. Not when they’re having that much difficulty deciding who to award the wins to. Not when there was only one rider who stood on the podium with him who is generally acknowledged to be clean (well I suppose Andy Schleck also stood on a TdF podium with him, and I don’t think he’s been tainted yet).

OK, I take back singlehandedly.

Please correct me if I’m wrong Grum, but isn’t everyone who’s accused him of pushing drugs a convicted drugs cheat? Have most/all not been given a favorable deal from USADA?

Well if you didn’t know that was incorrect, then clearly you’ve not actually read any of the reports about the USADA findings. Maybe you should go away and do a bit of reading before posting any more twaddle.

Consider yourself corrected.

Cheers, I didn’t know which is why I asked.

Ah, well as I said I don’t follow the cycling press only mainstream. I’m not a follower of road riding, and to be perfectly honest after the latest non-surprising cheating saga won’t bother watching any TDF or televised stuff again. We could well be going through all this in 5 years time with the current crop! Is 5 years about how long it takes the tests to catch up with the cheats? longer?

Maybe you should go away and do a bit of reading before posting any more twaddle.

ah bugger off

glenp – Member

He has singlehandedly invalidated 7 years of TdF history, and tainted the sport forever.

Now that has to be a joke, you will be telling me that LA is responsible for global warming and re runs of top gear on dave too.

Ask yourself if LA was not there would there still have been doping. It’s hardly all his fault.

My guess is tennis and footie will be next, then distance running.

http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.co.uk/

Tennis even has the same doctors!

Ask yourself if LA was not there would there still have been doping. It’s hardly all his fault.

Are you trolling? Really? Nobody is saying that is the case but when the bloke who wins it 7 times in a row is doping, it hardly says to everyone else that they should be racing for 2nd does it?

Of course Tennis has a steroid problem, look at how Martina Navratolova changed shape…

Please correct me if I’m wrong Grum, but isn’t everyone who’s accused him of pushing drugs a convicted drugs cheat? Have most/all not been given a favorable deal from USADA?

Another one correcting you on all the points you make in that statement.

You have got to be trolling or very ill informed.

All you say is what LA says in a press release it is no more persuavise and just as misleading, ill informed and distorted.
Can you just suggest they all take lie detector tests now?

Ah, well as I said I don’t follow the cycling press only mainstream.

Well here’s a mainstream media report which includes direct first-hand testimony from somebody who wasn’t a rider, isn’t a convicted drugs cheat and hasn’t been offered a deal by USADA.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19957246

ah bugger off

😆 – the question you have to ask yourself is are you actually improving the signal to noise ratio of this thread?

stevewhyte – I already took that over-reach back. But you only read the posts that you want to read I guess.

Still – even if I phrased it in an ott fashion, I do believe he has tainted a long phase of TdF history, not only by doping, but by conspiring, bullying, threatening, arrogance and greed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_career_achievements_by_Lance_Armstrong

This got short, fast.

Some of the regular posters making utter fools of themselves on this thread is eyeopening. Reminds me of the residents of Springfield with pitchforks and torches.

Wrecker I agree with every word you have written.

Que a load of silly abuse 😆

Glenep forgive me not reading every one of the 52 pages of posts, you might understand why, appologies if I caused you any distress.

Well here’s a mainstream media report which includes direct first-hand testimony from somebody who wasn’t a rider, isn’t a convicted drugs cheat and hasn’t been offered a deal by USADA.

There’s a few testimonies there. The only one which could be interpreted as remotely, possibly, slightly considerable is the masseuse IMHO. Even that’s a bit coded.
And she’s not even accused him of being a scarface type character.

No worries stevewhyte – odd that you managed to read one but not the other. I was only concerned about your twisted knickers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_career_achievements_by_Lance_Armstrong

This got short, fast.

😆 Surely some of those remaining ’08 onwards results are for events which come under USADA jurisdiction and should also be removed?

Emma O’Reilly was subject to the full legal force of Sir Lance, I’d be wary too.

Have you bothered to look up the Betsy Andreu story yet, or are you still idly trolling?

Just looking at the Leadville 100 results. Dave Wiens won it 5 times in a row. The next two winners? Lance then Levi. Bet Dave is a bit pissed off 🙂