Lance, latest have we done it yet.

Just finished reading the death of marco pantani and the fall and rise of david millar. As much as i wish i could believe in Lance – i don’t think i can anymore.

Pantani book fascinating – some of these guys in the 90’s onwards were riding with 60% heamatocrit levels – amazing they all didn’t just drop dead really.

By the way the pantani book has one of the best overviews of doping bloodwork i’ve ever read.

In other words – let’s see his bloodwork – if it is anomalous – game over.

Glitchety

840 posts, can we make the 1000? 😀

840 posts, can we make the 1000?

Hopefully we’ll get to 1000 before:
1) any more facts come out
2) anyone here changes their view

LA has actully come out of this as well as he can have hoped for. Trek and Nike stand by him. Donations to Livestrong are way up. The people who hated him and thought he was a doper are now convinced he’s a doper – big deal, they thought that anyway. The people who belived he is/was clean and thought he was the greatest cyclist ever now think it’s all a consiracy/cover up.

You seem to have missed off the vast majority of cycling fans who neither hated Lance nor thought he was a god. Like a lot of people commenting on this thread I don’t hate LA – I used to be a fan, and have his books. I also used to believe his claims of innocence. However this case has made me realise that he really was a doper. As much as I’d like to be smugly self-satisfied and reckon you need a certain level of intelligence to come to that conclusion from the information available, I don’t actually believe that is true.

I’m sure there are plenty of others like me who have had their minds changed. I actually still held a tiny sliver of doubt and hope that he was clean, but the admission of guilt by refusing to contest the charges has extinguished that for me.

jfletch – Member

At this stage it may be worth pointing out a “coincidence”.

The federal investigation into USPS was dropped on the eve of charges being issued due to political pressure. FACT

The lead investigator is puzzled and angry at this as he knew he had a stong case. FACT

The senator responsible for the case is related to Lance Armstrong. COINCIDENCE?

These are interesting FACTS which I would be interested to hear more of.

In other words – let’s see his bloodwork – if it is anomalous – game over.

USADA statement indicates that this forms part of their case.

Tyler hamiltons book is out a few days early. Is it full of fabrications and bitter lies or did those blood transfusion get togethers with lance really happen?

Tyler hamiltons book is out a few days early. Is it full of fabrications and bitter lies or did those blood transfusion get togethers with lance really happen?

And if it’s full of fabrication and lies about Armstrong, will he sue?

I don’t see how he can after giving “You know what? I’ve had enough of all this” as his reason for not contesting the USADA charges.

And if it’s full of fabrication and lies about Armstrong, will he sue?

I don’t see how he can after giving “You know what? I’ve had enough of all this” as his reason for not contesting the USADA charges.

Yes – I’m thinking the same…

I suspect that most of Hamilton’s grand jury / USADA testimony will be in the book, and I’d also guess that is why LA has hung up the towel.. A quick google suggests there hasnt been any legal bid (yet) to block Hamilton’s book…

And Hamilton would be on his way to court (one way or the other) if the book differed greatly from his grand jury testimony. Any major discrepencies between book and testimony and either LA would sue for libel, or the Feds would be after him for perjury

Has not changed my view. Believe and will carry on believeing that Cycle racing is one of the worlds best sports.
Known for a long time that the anti doping system is a failure, it persecutes the innocent allows thew guilty to get away (for a long time).
It has confirmed that the human race is made up of people who will do anything to win, people who want to believe in the extrodinary, and winging gets who do nothing but stand(sit) and do nothing more difficult than being cynical. Of course we need all these people to temper each other. Rather boringly i’m made up of mostly the middle on with an active dose of the latter, while actually wishing I had a bit of the first.

2) anyone here changes their view

I’ve changed mine!

(Unfortunately, it was about Carl Lewis 😉 )

Hadn’t seen this one before…?

Drug raid on LA TdF hotel called off

Michel Rieu, the scientific adviser to France’s national anti-doping agency, that Armstrong received up to 20 minutes warning of imminent ‘random’ drug tests

“A French investigation detail came from Paris to carry out a raid. But I have it on good authority that around five in the afternoon, when they were in front of the hotel, the investigators were told to abort. The scheduled operation was called off at the last minute. I do not know who gave the order… But I do know the investigators were furious at having to turn on their heels.”

Article lifted from The Times online

http://www.speedbird747.com/downloads/armstrong.pdf

Probably related to
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/aug/28/lance-armstrong-news-international-libel

(walks away again)

rkk01 – Member
Hadn’t seen this one before…?

Drug raid on LA TdF hotel called off

Nice selective quoting at the end, not difficult to see who the writer supports!

Did I selectively quote – or the original article??? I didn’t bother quoting what has already been placed on this thread…

piemonster – that Times online piece is very good. Puts the strident denials in context. LA has squandered the chance of a sympathetic reception because of his agressive stance

rkk01 – Member
Did I selectively quote – or the original article??? I didn’t bother quoting what has already been placed on this thread…

The article, he quoted the judge’s issues with USADA but didn’t mention that was also critical of Pharmstrong and the UCI.

Fair enough.

I have taken the opinion that most journos still seem to be very cautious about reporting on this – the Beeb especially, have been very “conservative”* shall we say. LA’s reputation for aggressive legal action obviously still has some weight.

* – Or alternatively, you could venture the opinion that the mainstream media dont want to cover this in a balanced way. few seem to be willing to delve into the detail of the previous (publically availbale) concerns about LA

On the subject of denial…

http://www.ballz.co.za/sport/ballz-speak-to-phil-liggett-about-lance-armstrong-being-stripped-of-ti/649

For f&*ks sake, walk away, walk way away…..

Interesting to see Ned Boulting distance himself from this last night, on Twitter he stated that he disagrees with Liggett

I listeded to the Liggett interview. At around 12 minutes he seems to suggest that he has met cancer survivors who have beaten their illness as a direct result of listening to LA’s inspiring speeches!

Time to call it a day Phil.

Phil Ligget sucks ***** in hell (possibly)

USADA responds to Liggett

Interesting that Liggett is seen as having enough ‘clout’ to warrant a response from USADA, even if it’s only a one-liner. I may be wrong but isn’t this the first time they’ve commented on comments?

Paul Sherwin and I believe Phil Liggett are both business partners and very good friends of LA, but still its galling to listen to what he’s trying to say..

higgo – Member
USADA responds to Liggett

Interesting that Liggett is seen as having enough ‘clout’ to warrant a response from USADA, even if it’s only a one-liner. I may be wrong but isn’t this the first time they’ve commented on comments?

I think it’s because in the US Liggett is ‘the voice of cycling’ so maybe seen as quite influential?

According to the commentator, who has business interests with Armstrong

Hmmmmm

another excellent, measured piece…

again, nicely summarises LA’s achievements, and downfall…

… tellingly, another commentator who write’s LA’s sporting “obituary” with sympathy – As part of a generation of dopers, it’s not the doping that has actually brought him down, it’s the aggressive denials and pursuit of others that have left him looking ridiculous

its about a conspiracy

Jeez, they ain’t helping themselves. Oooh, a conspiracy!

If Liggett’s lying (and I’m not saying he is or isn’t) why don’t they sue his arse?

Time to call it a day Phil.

+1 for that, he was also pretty useless in the Tour commentary this year.

Cards on the table here – I’m a massive Lance fanboi (almost as much as Hora) but there is no way I can now defend or think he was clean. Hopefully all the evidence comes out in the open to end it once and for all.

If anyone has not seen it, Jens has posted power outputs on a recent stage victory in the states linkage here make sure you read the comments 🙂

its about a conspiracy

Jeez, they ain’t helping themselves. Oooh, a conspiracy!

What else do you want to call it? If he was just doping on his own – no conspiracy. Being part of a team system who are all doping and covering it up (and making millions doing it), as well as bullying/intimidating others to keep quiet about it – conspiracy.

Despite claiming to be so bored of this thread you still keep cropping up with LA fanboy posts fairly often. 😆

If Liggett’s lying (and I’m not saying he is or isn’t) why don’t they sue his arse?

Pretty obviously bollocks all this hearsay about mysterious figures with unlimited bundles of cash trying to bring down LA (coming from someone with business interests with LA, hmmmm). Is this guy Liggett mentions willing to go on record I wonder?

Who are these mysterious figures trying to bring down LA and where do they get the money from? The USADA probably won’t bother suing as it’s patently absurd. Also, by your own argument – if LA is innocent why doesn’t he sue the USADA or contest the case?

Just nicked this (below) from the Road cc news page. Is this the same FFC that had there sprinter (Bauge?) ban back dated so he could ride the Olympics, then still wanted him to keep the world title he won during his back dated ban? Yes I know his just missed tests and was not actually positive but you can get kicked out of the tour de france for that. You can even lose your TdF titles without a legal positive test also. The hypocracy is amusing now.

“The Fédération Française de Cyclisme (FFC) has said that it views Lance Armstrong’s decision not to take the doping charges laid against him by the United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) to arbitration as tantamount to a confession by the 40-year-old that he doped. It also says that the seven Tour de France titles Armstrong won between 1999 and 2005 should not be reassigned, and expressed the hope that the Texan repay some €2.95 million in prize money won in France.

The FFC’s views are contained in a press release published today on its website in response to USADA’s announcement last Friday that it had banned Armstrong from sport for life and disqualified him from all results obtained since 1 August 1998. That followed Armstrong’s anouncemet late on Thursday that he was not seeking arbitration.

In its statement, the FFC said it had been closely following developments, that it “applauds the perseverance of USADA,” and that “the refusal of Lance Armstrong not to contest USADA’s accusations sounds as a recognition of his guilt with regard to the breaches of anti-doping regulations held against him dating back to 1998.”

It went on: “This decision closes the ‘black book’ of a sombre period for interational cycling. It also demonstrates that the biggest athletes are not sheltered, even with a delay, from sporting sanctions related to breaches linked to the fight against doping.

“The [FFC] welcomes this very strong message sent to the cheats, one full of hope for the vast majority of riders who practise their sport cleanly.”

Regarding the potential reassignment of the Tour de France titles won by Armstrong, the FFC said that it “wishes that the places left vacant subsequent to the disqualification of Armstrong should not be reassigned, thereby leaving the palmares of the Tour de France clean for seven years and avoiding any arguments regarding the credibility of potential winners.”

It added that it hoped for the restitution by Armstrong of €2.95 million in prize money won at the Tour de France and other races, and that the money to be used to develop cycling at youth level and for anti-doping initiatives.”

The voice of dopey roadies and trackies maybe but definitely not the voice of cycling. Liggett opposed the entry of MTB (a popular form of cycling if ever there was one) and BMX into the Olympics.

If Liggett’s lying (and I’m not saying he is or isn’t) why don’t they sue his arse?

Because it was rambling nonsense with no specifics?

Is this the same FFC that had there sprinter (Bauge?) ban back dated so he could ride the Olympics, then still wanted him to keep the world title he won during his back dated ban? Yes I know his just missed tests and was not actually positive but you can get kicked out of the tour de france for that. You can even lose your TdF titles without a legal positive test also. The hypocracy is amusing now.

Hypocrisy maybe – they certainly didn’t come out of the Bauge affair looking good. But what exactly do you want them to say now?

Liggett opposed the entry of MTB

I believe his “opposition” was just a comment in an interview.

you still keep cropping up with LA fanboy posts fairly often.
Yeah? Quote me on one.

Yeah? Quote me on one.

Here you go 🙄

DezB – Member
He’s still pretty damn awesome though: Out of all the cheats, he (allegedly) cheated much better than all the others and got away with it for the longest. Go Armstrong!

aracer – Member
I’d expect them to say “we are hyocritical losers who would rather accuse others than figure out how to win legally ourselves”. I do live in cloud cuckoo land though.

Seriously after all the steps taken by the French to stop doping after the 1998 I expected things had improved there but it seems not. Can’t totally blame the FFC for that though. Apprently some folk are using really round wheels.

TBF, Dezb’s “input” (which is not insubstantial) on this thread isn’t much more than saying how crap it is 🙄

.

TBF, Dezb’s “input” (which is not insubstantial) on this thread isn’t much more than saying how crap it is

He speaketh the truth. S’what boredom does. I keep coming back expecting new revelations, but there’s never any so I’ll leave ya all to it.

USADA to publish evidence…

The bulk of that evidence is testimony from at least a dozen of his former team-mates and associates, but it is not, as has been reported, evidence gathered during the federal investigation into allegations of systematic doping at the US Postal Service cycling team.

This looks like a different twist…

Usada has not had access, despite requests, to the evidence the Food and Drug Administration investigators gathered, and has built its own case.