Jeremy Corbyn

chvckD started it, aracer and myself have provided some changes/input to it also.

Welcome to the closed world of JC(not Jesus Christ)…

These lot are dangerous if given the power to rule because of their extreme views.

Although they pretend to be opened minded by accepting other views deep down they will reject all of them or any comments that affect their utopian ideology.

Fundamentally they are flaw in so many respects like many political ideologies but since they have been drumming for their ideology for so long, they cannot simply change them or drop them because they have nothing to turn to … they are caught between a rock and a hard place.

I sympathise with this lot because they have trapped themselves into an ideology that they cannot change or know how to change because they cannot live with the alternatives. They usually go all out extreme …

I told you so.

😮

Although they pretend to be opened minded by accepting other views deep down they will reject all of them or any comments that affect their utopian ideology.

its an interesting point – I think it captures the classic problem of trying to appease or compromise with the vocal extremist minority in any political party – once you start, you can’t stop, because nothing you can do will ever be enough for them.

This of course applies just at much to the frothing right wing nutters in the conservative party as it does to the Left – give up nukes, and the next thing they will demand is an exit from of Nato too, and then they’ll be calling for the cancellation of new ships, planes, disbanding of the army etc. – it’ll never stop.

I haven’t blocked you because you disagree with me, I’ve blocked you because you spout absolute bobbins and it’s boring scrolling past your posts. Made a conscious effort not to engage with you a little while ago (oh teh ironing) because it’s pointless. There are plenty of people on here who don’t share the same views as me, but they mostly debate with a modicum of logic.

ninfan – Member – Block User
Although they pretend to be opened minded by accepting other views deep down they will reject all of them or any comments that affect their utopian ideology.
its an interesting point – I think it captures the classic problem of trying to appease or compromise with the vocal extremist minority in any political party

?

Membership of the Labour Party has practically doubled since their catastrophic defeat in May’s General Election, mostly due to the surprise election of Jeremy Corbyn as leader. Labour now has 370,658 members, its highest total since the halcyon days of 1997. Of these, 183,658 joined since May. The total number of Conservative members is thought to number around 150,000.

When left wing candidate Corbyn threw his cap into the ring there was a quick surge of new £3 members, each of whom were then able to vote for him – or other candidates – as leader. However even following his election the number of new members has risen by another 50,000, according to The Independent – more than the total number of members of anti-EU party Ukip.

Lifer – I’m not sure what you think the benefit of party membership figures is to the debate.

Conservative party membership halved under Cameron, things like legalising gay marriage were fundamentally unpopular with the grassroots party members.

but the Tories just won a majority at the last the election…

Go figure!

So when you mentioned

vocal extremist minority in any political party

you weren’t referring to the members? Who then?

Lifer – Member

I haven’t blocked you because you disagree with me, I’ve blocked you because you spout absolute bobbins and it’s boring scrolling past your posts. Made a conscious effort not to engage with you a little while ago (oh teh ironing) because it’s pointless. There are plenty of people on here who don’t share the same views as me, but they mostly debate with a modicum of logic.

😛 At least there is still hope for you.

You see not many people can articulate points like some and I am definitely not good at articulating them. However, if something is so obviously wrong then it is. I know I tend to jump to the conclusion but like I said previously in many threads am I moving so fast ahead that I have left everyone behind or are they simply too slow to catch up? Yes, an arrogant thought but I don’t know how to articulate them as I think obvious is obvious …

As for the modicum of logic do you really expect everyone to explain everything step by step? I mean most people on STW are highly educated and when they start labeling me as a troll etc they are merely applying the technique of how do I say … “pretend not to understand this fellow by inciting ignorance etc or constant call of trolling …” to get him off our back so that we can continue with our propaganda.

Unfortunately for them I am here to counter their views albeit not as well prepared as them. I mean these lot are so well prepared I thought they must be desperate or they have a strong agenda to convert …

I don’t care what political ideology(s) you have I am here to balance things up … Like I always say I treat everyone equally like a ZM.

The people who vote for said party I guess.

The Forces of anarchy of course Lifer!

Of course! 🙄

Is there a blocker for firefox?

Northwind – Member
Is there a blocker for firefox?

😆

Meanwhile, the SNP have held a big party conference.

No barriers, no minders, no eggs, no snipers, and no necrophiliac porcine fellatio enthusiasts. 🙂

Interesting to note that the ‘centrist’ Liberals in Canada have just won an election promising to:

Cut income taxes for middle-class Canadians while increasing them for the wealthy
Run deficits for three years to pay for infrastructure spending
Do more to address environmental concerns over the controversial Keystone oil pipeline
Take in more Syrian refugees, and pull out of bombing raids against Islamic State while bolstering training for Iraqi forces
Legalise marijuana

If Corbyn suggested doing half of that stuff the media would go absolutely mental and people would be lining up to paint him as a dangerous ‘hard left’ troublemaker.

Only thing is if you’re using chrome on iOS, it isn’t an option. (Not sure about Android)

🙁 bugger, I’d really appreciate it on the iPad tbh

PSA for anyone in easy reach of Croydon who is interested in the Labour Party’s now alternative economic policies to the Tories, the Shadow Chancellor, and also Jeremy Corbyn’s head of policy, will be speaking, discussing, and answering questions, on Saturday 7 November 2015 from 10:30 to 16:30, at Ruskin House.

https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/croydon-assembly-fighting-the-tories-a-manifesto-for-action-tickets-18754943541

Blimey John McTernan (who must be doing pretty well out of all this) has written something I really enjoyed reading!

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2015/10/good-luck-seumas-milne-heres-what-i-wish-theyd-told-me-when-i-took-job

Funny how this thread has gone quiet when so much is going on in relation to Corbyn. A couple of months on and I’m still unsure of where it’s all going to end. What I have been surprised about though (no idea why, they are politicians after all!) is the willingness of a large number of labour MPs to wash their dirty linen in public and flagrantly undermine the party at every opportunity. Challenging the leader is one thing, but actively sabotaging the party’s standing with the public and it’s ability to oppose the tories is a different thing altogether. It’s almost like they’re goading him to introduce deselections.

So in a year or two’s time is it going to be a new leader in place, or a whole new bunch of labour MPs?

but actively sabotaging the party’s standing with the public and it’s ability to oppose the tories is a different thing altogether. It’s almost like they’re goading him to introduce deselections.

Is just reminding everyone who the blairites are

NO but chrome is worth it just to avoid his incomprehensible long winded gibbering.

the willingness of a large number of labour MPs to wash their dirty linen in public and flagrantly undermine the party at every opportunity

There are reports of Labour MPs texting reporters, and briefing against Corbyn from the Labour Party meeting after the Foreign affairs select committee on Syria.

Tories must be pissing themselves.

EDIT: there are posters with whom I disagree, but chewkw is the only poster I block, mostly as his posts are just gibberish.

There are reports of Labour MPs texting reporters, and briefing against Corbyn from the Labour Party meeting after the Foreign affairs select committee on Syria.

I thought Corbyn wanted open debate?

“I want open debate, I will listen to everyone, I firmly believe leadership is listening.” He said in his victory speech. “I am not imposing leadership lines. I don’t believe anyone has a monopoly on wisdom – we all have ideas and a vision of how things can be better”

You can’t call for that and then complain when people seek to deliver it!

Isn’t it strange how, despite all the warnings through time, the left keeps repeating the same mistakes with, as Kruschchev described it, the cult of personality?

All the hatred of Blair – the former messiah – now castigated as an enemy of the people, purges of his supporters and replacement with the ‘new order’. How crimes overlooked during his reign are now used to deny his place in history by the same people who brought him to power and kept him there. How Miliband, the next saviour of the people is now spoken of in hushed tones, the same people who loudly supported him as ‘the most left wing leader since Foot’ now say he was not left wing enough, before gushing over the new leader. How Mandelson is the new Voroshilov. Mark my words, this is no acceptance of the people as creators of history – Corbyns coronation as leader is no rejection of the cult of personality, but the exact sort of continuance that was warned against at the 20th party congress. The King is dead, long live the King

You can’t call for that and then complain when people seek to deliver it!

this isn’t open debate though is it. it’s one side trying to have a debate, and the other side not having the bollocks to engage and running off to the press, and screaming “It’s not fair, I want to bomb things, and I don’t want to have to justify it”

You just can’t stop can you?!!

It’s actually becoming hilarious.. Admit you’re terrified of Corbyn.. Go on, it’s the first step to self acceptance

this isn’t open debate though is it. it’s one side trying to have a debate, and the other side not having the bollocks to engage and running off to the press, and screaming “It’s not fair, I want to bomb things, and I don’t want to have to justify it”

As opposed to the party deciding to keep nuclear weapons and the leader running off to the press screaming “it’s not fair, I dont want to bomb things, and if you try and make me do it then I’ll scweam and scweam”?

Admit you’re terrified of Corbyn.. Go on, it’s the first step to self acceptance

Best three quid (or ‘thirty pieces of silver’) I ever spent 😀

Do you dream about him at night?
Does he appear as a kindly father figure in your dreams?

Does he persuade you to do things that you’re embarrassed about?
Do you feel regret when you wake to discover it was just a dream?
Were you abused by Mark Clarke’s contemporaries?

removed. can’t be arsed with it

Is just reminding everyone who the blairites are

Yes, most of the voters.

I thought Corbyn wanted open debate?

There is a huge difference between mature adult debate about issues and policy, and tell-tale snitching and shit-stirring which is currently going on between many labour MPs and their media allies. The tories don’t need to do anything as currently the right wing of the labour party are doing it for them. They are actively acting against the interests of the party which were overwhelmingly and democratically expressed in September. Like I said, if they don’t want deselections, then they’re going a funny way about it.

Yes, most of the voters.

“Voters? Where we’re going, we don’t need voters” 😀

You guys are REALLY going to have to stop blaming the press. Corbyn was always going to have a major weakness on security and his terrorist links, the events of the past few months and especially 2 weeks ago in Paris have exposed him brutally. The Depity Leader and Shadow defence have come out against him and now his buddy Livingstone has said the Biritsh armed forces are discredited. It’s a shambles,

I’ll post this again, I mean why not ?

If only the opposition had the balls to stand up to Blair in his war last time round

So in a year or two’s time is it going to be a new leader in place, or a whole new bunch of labour MPs?

Definitely a new Leader. The MPs cannot easily be de-selected and even if Corbyn-it’s tried to do so it would be a total mess and cause even more damage with the process dragging on and on. Add to that the huge irony of a leader who himself voted against his own party 400+ times trying to de-select MPs for voting against him ! In fact it’s possible that MPs could successfully challenge the de-selection action.

@Kimbers who do you think should have stood up ? The Tories where in favour, most of the opposition to the war came from the Labour side. Just because you are not in government does not mean you are to supposed to vote against everything.

I saw that cartoon too, it makes its point well

Mandelson is the new Voroshilov

This is an allusion that makes no sense and serves only to tell everyone you know who Voroshilov is. (And this reply serves only to tell everyone that not only do I know who Voroshilov was, but also why there is no meaningful comparison to Mandelson).

In fact it’s possible

Anything is except of course you criticising Israel or having some balance on Palestine. I even heard a rumour you once accepted you were wrong!

Add to that the huge irony of a leader who himself voted against his own party 400+ times trying to de-select MPs

He cannot as it is not the leaders job to select them in the first place.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constituency_Labour_Party

So in a year or two’s time is it going to be a new leader in place, or a whole new bunch of labour MPs?

I don’t think it’s going to be as simple as that.

Tom Watson made the point that he can’t easily resign over Syria because he also has a cast iron mandate.

Which set me thinking there’s a total impasse here. The MPs have a cast iron mandate from the voters, Corbyn has a cast iron mandate from the membership. Neither can practically resign or be sacked. Both parties are forced to endure this embarrassing farce until they lose the next election and Corbyn can resign with a clear conscience. (Unless a health issue comes up to let him off.)

The ‘funny’ (FWOABW) thing is I don’t think Milliband wanted the job either. Labour haven’t been lead by someone who actually wanted the job since Brown.

To have “a cast iron mandate” you need to have been elected on the specific policy which the mandate refers to.

I’m fairly sure that Tom Watson wasn’t elected on the policy promise of “vote for me and I will support bombing Syria”.

I’m fairly sure that Tom Watson wasn’t elected on the policy promise of “vote for me and I will support bombing Syria”.

Tom’s offering 1 vote to the pro-bombing side. By failing to whip his MPs Corbyn’s giving 50 or so votes – more than enough to ensure the bombing will take place. Corbyn is effectively supporting the bombing of Syria with his actions, just not his words.

Yet another principle sacrificed to political expediency.