Jeremy Corbyn

Apart from attempting to score cheap party political points why have you raised the Rotherham abuse scandal and what has it got to do with the Corbyn?

Corbyn’s silence over child abuse in Islington is typical of how he picks and chooses his causes

nothing to see here, move along……

After what was undoubtedly relentless googling big_n_daft you are totally unable to explain what the Rotherham abuse scandal has it to do with the Corbyn, so you completely abandon that smear and dig up some dirt involving Islington hoping that will stick to Corbyn !

I have no idea what size you are but your username is at least part true for certain 😆

David Cameron is the new leader of the British Left

There will be some “traditionalists” dismayed by what they will see as his dangerous socially progressive dilettantism. But one interesting thing I noticed in the aftermath of Theresa May’s Enoch Powell tribute turn was the way it jarred with the tone of the rest of the conference. A Conservative Home Secretary delivering a hard anti-immigration message suddenly felt out of place. And as a result, I suspect Cameron will be able to take his party with him on his new progressive journey.

Was that David Cameron, or some left-wing lookalike?

It was hard, after it was all over, to figure out which had been the greater culture shock: was it a Conservative Prime Minister angrily denouncing a litany of injustices against black workers, abused Muslims, gays in loving partnerships and underpaid women? Or the conference giving him a standing ovation when he rounded off the passage by declaring: “I want us to end discrimination and finish the fight for real equality in our country.”

The Corbyn effect ?

Almost certainly.

That “leader of the new left” isn’t quite accurate is it? IDS and Theresa May are members of the Conservative party,the idea of anybody being to the right of either of them is terrifying. So,yeah; I will deny he is leader of the new left.

The Corbyn effect ?

Almost certainly.

Or just a load of horrible liars who have no way to judge what the truth is any more?

http://m.slashdot.org/story/300955

Approx 50% of papers on economics cannot be replicated. Hmmm, I wonder which ones?

Edited – I think what I posted was fake

Liked this:
http://www.danrebellato.co.uk/spilledink/2015/10/8/privy

Britain-hating Corbyn hates this country he actually wants to make it a better place, whereas tub-thumping patriot Hameron is determined to drive it to Indian levels of poverty.

Britain-hating Corbyn. I heard he’s a muslim atheist too, and I’ve never seen his birth certificate.

hates the Jews as well as loving terrorists

Frankie Boyle has done a great job of balancing satire and analysis in this one:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/08/frankie-boyles-conference-roundup-haunted-tennis-ball-slytherin-chancellor-politics

I haven’t read his column before (only twitter), but I shall be from now on if they’re as good as this one.

hates the Jews as well as loving terrorists

Abuses animals. Oh no, that’s Cameron.

The Corbyn effect ?

Interesting isn’t it! If you take Cameron’s and Osborne’s speeches at face value, which admittedly is a big leap of faith, then you’d come to the conclusion that the traditional tory right is as marginalised as it has ever has been. Which is odd, because if Corbyn is so unelectable and his policies so extreme, you’d expect them to be making hay while the sun shines and indulging their wildest rightwing fantasies. And they say there’s been no shift to the left. 🙄

@ernie, I don’t think Corbyn is involved in Rotherham. Why his inaction is relevant is he’s already been “called out” by a fellow Labour party member for his “selective selection of vpcauses to support” due to his inaction over a child abuse case in his Islington constituency. It’s also relevant to query Tom Watson who was very happy to get involved in having Leon Brittan arrested for a 1967 race allegation (which he well knew meant the press would name him) in a case whuch had nothing to do with his constituency or his parliamentary role. The police have now apologised to Brittans wife and family and Tom Watson has been critised (as per Panormama) over what looks very much like a political point scoring intervention. When it comes to “Westminster” abuse allegations involving mementos if the Tory government Watson is all over it, when it comes to Rotherham less so !

Corbyn and Watson could make a very positive contribution by looking into the Labour Party’s role in the Rotherham a use scandal as their absolute inaction over many years. They can do this given their leadership positions in the Labour Party

@JY Corbyn has shared platforms, described as friends and given significant credibility to those that are homophobic and anti-Semitic. He has chaired the “Stop the War” coalition which is riddled with such people as well as terrorist sympathisers

if Corbyn is so unelectable and his policies so extreme, you’d expect them to be making hay while the sun shines and indulging their wildest rightwing fantasies.

You’d expect them to be making hay while the sun shines by consolidating the middle ground where most of the voters are.

Snapping up all the centerist voters Labour no longer wants.

@ernie, I don’t think Corbyn is involved in Rotherham. Why his inaction is relevant is he’s already been “called out” by a fellow Labour party member for his “selective selection of vpcauses to support” due to his inaction over a child abuse case in his Islington constituency.

Completely unsubstantiated smear. jamba – you’re getting like a rather unpleasant version of chewy. Your endless repetition of baseless accusations and innuendo is leaving a very bad taste.

“DrJ – Member

@ernie, I don’t think Corbyn is involved in Rotherham. Why his inaction is relevant is he’s already been “called out” by a fellow Labour party member for his “selective selection of vpcauses to support” due to his inaction over a child abuse case in his Islington constituency.

Completely unsubstantiated smear. jamba – you’re getting like a rather unpleasant version of chewy. Your endless repetition of baseless accusations and innuendo is leaving a very bad taste.”

” DrJ – Member

hates the Jews as well as loving terrorists

Abuses animals. Oh no, that’s Cameron. “

Err OK fella carry on…. 😕

Above:

DrJ – Member

Completely unsubstantiated smear. jamba – you’re getting like a rather unpleasant version of chewy. Your endless repetition of baseless accusations and innuendo is leaving a very bad taste.

Earlier:

DrJ – Member

Abuses animals. Oh no, that’s Cameron.

Edit: “Great minds think alike” with Marcus posting similar before I refreshed/posted 🙂

Snapping up all the centerist voters Labour no longer wants.

Most voters aren’t actually centrist – they’re told they’re centrist. IIRC when polled on policies without party names attached to them, most people go left.

” DrJ – Member

hates the Jews as well as loving terrorists

Abuses animals. Oh no, that’s Cameron. “

Err OK fella carry on….

Maybe in your world there is some equivalence between a tasteless undergraduate jape and child abuse?

Which is odd, because if Corbyn is so unelectable and his policies so extreme, you’d expect them to be making hay while the sun shines and indulging their wildest rightwing fantasies.

It is really not that odd, you just need to understand your “enemy” better. The Tory party is a coalition of a variety of political views and through most of its history it has not been ideological but pragmatic – it’s raison d’être was to be in power. It is therefore entirely natural for it to move to the left if it sees this as a way to increase its likelihood of retaining power. Corbyn is undoubtedly the cause of this shift, but for the left leaning voter – what is better the Tories moving to the left but retaining power, or a less idealogically “pure” Labour party winning the election? This is the argument against moving to the left as the Blairites and the Brownites see it. Corbyn supporters such as EL reject the premise of the question because they reject the orthodoxy that the centre ground is largely immovable.

Bottom line is – I believe what Corbyn says, I don’t believe Cameron. He just says what he thinks we want to hear so we’ll vote for him.

Most voters aren’t actually centrist – they’re told they’re centrist. IIRC when polled on policies without party names attached to them, most people go left.

That is because when the left use these surveys they cherry pick the answers, the public invariably have some very left wings views and some incredibly right wings views at the same time – we are all hypocrites.

the public invariably have some very left wings views and some incredibly right wings views at the same time

Yes, and the single dimension of left/right is not enough to describe people’s views, as has been posted on here many times.

Hence why UKIP poached Labour voters. And hence why Corbyn COULD poach swing voters despite being left.

There is a huge difference between the two but that really isn’t the point is it? And if you have missed the point, you cant call someone out on unfounded innuendo and then use unfounded innuendo. Neither has any proof behind the allegations and that’s my point as you well know. I have no real opinion on any of this but please don’t try and imply that i don’t consider child abuse a serious issue because it was pretty obvious that it was not what I was saying.

Most voters aren’t actually centrist – they’re told they’re centrist. IIRC when polled on policies without party names attached to them, most people go left.

Because left/right mean very little. So given a shopping list of lovely things like better schools and infrastructure we all say we want them all and the polsters put us down as lefties.

At election time we factor that against what we think the economy can actually support which is very different to a fairytale wish list.

So given a shopping list of lovely things like better schools and infrastructure we all say we want them all and the polsters put us down as lefties.

Yes, cos they are left policies. If you ask people if rich people and big companies should pay more tax, you’ll get a lot of agreement too. That’s definitely left.

At election time we factor that against what we think the economy can actually support

And how many average posters know enough about economics to make an informed decision? Virtually none. So they go on whatever spin the parties have managed to make stick. Regardless of what’ll actually happen.

So the fact people have voted Tory doens’t mean they actually agree with the Tories.

It is really not that odd, you just need to understand your “enemy” better.

I understand that no problem. My point was that despite all the ‘extremist’ rhetoric, Corbyn has moved the dividing lines decidedly to the left, not only marginalising the right of the labour party, but also the right of the tory party.

what is better the Tories moving to the left but retaining power, or a less idealogically “pure” Labour party winning the election?

I don’t much care to be honest. I’m not particularly tribal when it comes to political parties, I dislike them all equally 🙂 What I do care about however is what they do when in power. And in that respect, Corbyn has had an instant positive effect for those of us who sit on the left side of the spectrum.

And how many average posters know enough about economics to make an informed decision? Virtually none. So they go on whatever spin the parties have managed to make stick. Regardless of what’ll actually happen.

Yup. Economists don’t really know either.

It’s all a guess, and the best most of us can do is look at what other countries are doing and what the main political parties say is right and hope that’s best.

Which is odd, because if Corbyn is so unelectable and his policies so extreme, you’d expect them to be making hay while the sun shines and indulging their wildest rightwing fantasies.

I’d argue that they are…

Corbyn has moved the dividing lines decidedly to the left

Between the parties certainly, but has he moved the centre ground of the electorate? My guess is no – but the jury will be out for a few years yet.

And how many average posters know enough about economics to make an informed decision? Virtually none. So they go on whatever spin the parties have managed to make stick. Regardless of what’ll actually happen.

So the fact people have voted Tory doens’t mean they actually agree with the Tories.

The job of politicians is to make their case, their electoral failure is their failure not the electorate’s – blaming the electorate is just self pity.

Because left/right mean very little. So given a shopping list of lovely things like better schools and infrastructure we all say we want them all and the polsters put us down as lefties.

They say “Do you want better schools – Yes/No”? Really?
Are you sure you’re not confusing polls from the likes of YouGov, etc with facebook?

At election time we factor that against what we think the economy can actually support which is very different to a fairytale wish list.

So if the economy isn’t affording it, what is?
It’s not whether we can afford better schools or not, it’s whether we want our better schools to come from taxation, or from ‘the market’.
Both amounts of money are from the same ‘economy’.

A good example of this is the current Royal Mail situation and the fact that the ‘Universal Service Obligation” is under threat. The obligation, is basically a remnant of it’s time as a public-owned entity. Market forces will eventually erode this.

DrJ – Member
Abuses animals. Oh no, that’s Cameron.

That’s a terrible thing to say.

Why, just last week I was reading in the papers just how much Cameron LOVES animals.

The papers wouldn’t put anything in that wasn’t true, would they?

Oink, oink… 🙂

Alex is right.

It’s a question of priorities, and approach.

For example, current politicians squeezing people on benefits with very little money instead of rich people with plenty of money. Or Gove going on about traditionalism in schools.

Whoever said that left/right was fairly meaningless was right though.
Just a quick look at current left-wing governments illustrates the massive difference that exists between versions of ‘left-wing’ politics.
Many aren’t democracies for a start.

I’ve been looking at a few maps to try and determine which countries might be worth investigating in terms of successful left-wing democracies of the kind I might like to investigate.

You kind of have to combine this map:

With this map:

That second one seems somewhat simplified

according to that, the UK and Canada are more right wing than the USA 😆

ninfan – Member

That second one seems somewhat simplified

according to that, the UK and Canada are more right wing than the USA
Agreed – the dry data is easier to get than pretty maps, but not as easy to digest.
One map that I’ve lost now had Ireland as more democratic than UK, which I was interested in.
I also would like to investigate Norway more.