Is it just me or is this place boring?

Well he appears to have his nob out. That’d offend me personally

Offended or turned on? 😀

Nothing anyone has said here, other than deliberately attempting to be inflammatory, has argued anything to disprove the fact that by and large the group referred to as ‘pikeys’ live outside of our society, contribute no tax whatsoever, are often guilty of petty crime and in some instances serious organised crime, they are not just Irish or English, they can be Albanian, Romanian, Czech and from all manner of races, hell I even have a Romany in my own lineage and yes I often refer to myself in a self deprecating manner as a bit ‘pikey’.

It ain’t racial it is a lifestyle choice, one actually worse than that the unemployed are sometimes accused of.

They ‘moved in’ to my office car park once, as usual there was no help from the PC brigade and in the end after several weeks of theft, damage, blocked culverts from human faeces, and a spate of local crime the Army moved them on, the Police? Scared witless, difficult to serve a warrant on people of no fixed abode and of course they give you their name and address.
I’m currently awaiting a court case to another Major crime a vehicle I sold to a group (I hadn’t realised were Pikeys)which was used in a Major tobacco smuggling scam, which nets them up to 12 million a year, there’s a dozen or so of them, every now and then one of them goes down for a year, not bad money do a year inside and come out to a mil in cash, wouldn’t you?

So yes we have to protect their human rights, but do we have to be concerned about offending their sensibilities? I don’t think so, but that’s my opinion, you can maybe join that list of offended on their behalf, but that will all end though the moment they move in round your way, trust me.

Kevevs, was going to direct you to

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/conscientious-objector-on-being-jailed/page/3?replies=96#post-4985851

as its looking a bit old school over there but having caught up with this thread and the pikey-**** debate(?) I realise that the answer to your question is No it’s you, this place is not boring.

Think is a bit poor of Fred to get you on asking for his return, has he no pride? 🙂

FFS I can’t believe people hav a problem with this.

Yes, there are a lot of travellers committing crimes. Maybe the majority, I have no idea.

But once you start generalising based on race or social group then yes you are being a bigot or a racist. That’s the whole point. That’s what prejudice means – judging somoene based on some external characteristic.

If you go around using the word ‘pikey’ as an insult, then it’s not fair on decent law abiding travellers is it? Can you not understand this? The whole root of the issue is tarring whole groups with the same brush. Saying stuff like “they’re all the same”.

Go on, tell the forum that pikeys are all at it, I dare you.

Loads of travellers live near me in Morecambe. Can’t say I’ve ever had a problem – apart from the odd slightly scrawny looking horse being left tethered next to the main road.

I think the point is once you start making sweeping generalisations about groups of people you are on a very slippery slope.

What was your previous forum name by the way whitegoodman?

Where do we stand on Gingers?

+1

Where do we stand on Gingers?

It ain’t racial it is a lifestyle choice

The courts have tested this assertion with a little more rigour than you have. They reached different conclusions:

In Commission for Racial Equality v Dutton the Court of Appeal held that Romany Gypsies were an ethnic group within the meaning of the Race Relations Act 1976 (RRA) having regard to the evidence of their shared history, geographical origin, distinct customs and language.

More recently in O’Leary v Allied Domecq, a case brought on behalf of Irish Travellers, the County Court accepted that Irish Travellers are also a distinct ethnic group for the purposes of the RRA.

Perhaps a more timely look at the demonisation of particular ethnic groups is explored in the Guardian. The article is from last year, but is also topical given the news over the last couple of days. The whole thing’s here:

linky

but you can get the gist of my point from the first couple of paragraphs, to wit:

By now surely everyone knows the case of the eight men convicted of picking vulnerable underage girls off the streets, then plying them with drink and drugs before having sex with them. A shocking story. But maybe you haven’t heard. Because these sex assaults did not take place in Rochdale, where a similar story led the news for days in May, but in Derby earlier this month. Fifteen girls aged 13 to 15, many of them in care, were preyed on by the men. And though they were not working as a gang, their methods were similar – often targeting children in care and luring them with, among other things, cuddly toys. But this time, of the eight predators, seven were white, not Asian. And the story made barely a ripple in the national media.

Of the daily papers, only the Guardian and the Times reported it. There was no commentary anywhere on how these crimes shine a light on British culture, or how middle-aged white men have to confront the deep flaws in their religious and ethnic identity.

This would be all well and good, were it not for the fact that we’re not debating an actual ethnic group, we’re debating (and proving the forum aint boring)that the offended PC brigade (I.e. you lot) make the place uncomfortable for the casual pub banter brigade(i.e. me). I have no idea who even coined the term ‘Pikey’, it used to be ‘Gippo’. Either way it may be a sweeping generalisation of a group, lifestyle or ethnic have it either way, but it aint Racism its a slang term often used in jest.

No more than calling all STW’rs nobs, a sweeping generalisation I have heard in real life which caused me to investigate further, you’re not, only those that disagree with me are… 😉

He’s going to make you wear one of these…

molgrips – Member
FFS I can’t believe people hav a problem with this.

Yes, there are a lot of travellers committing crimes. Maybe the majority, I have no idea.

But once you start generalising based on race or social group then yes you are being a bigot or a racist. That’s the whole point. That’s what prejudice means – judging somoene based on some external characteristic.

Dude were you an Alien you could apply that logic to the entire human race.

They occupy that planet and kill each other in order to destroy it’s resources..

Either way it may be a sweeping generalisation of a group, lifestyle or ethnic have it either way, but it aint Racism its a slang term often used in jest.

Hah.. it’s only banter, so it’s ok.. right. Sounds like the 1970s in here, doesn’t it?

What difference does it matter if it’s not genetically an ethnic group? Notice I didn’t accuse you of racism, just prejudice. It doesn’t really matter if it’s racial or not.

it may be a sweeping generalisation of a group, lifestyle or ethnic have it either way, but it aint Racism

You might want to consider looking the word “racism” up somewhere or, perhaps let us know what you think racism is?

I’ve had things stolen from my van twice. On the first occasion I saw the thief driving off (he tried to run me over) and took the number. I drew a picture good enough for the police to know immediately who it was. On the second occasion the van was in a locked compound with video cameras, the police had no trouble identifying the thieves. You’ll never guess which ethnic group the thieves belonged to.

On the first occasion I knew where the culprit lived (the camp was next to one of my regular MTB trails and I spotted the car); back to the police who declined to do anything as “I’m sorry but we don’t have two coach loads of CRS available”.

All those reproachful words the PC on here love to bandy about I call “learning from one’s experience and acting accordingly”.

Edukator

I don’t think the “PC on here” are trying to claim that no travellers steal. However, I think the issue is that your accounts of two incidents of theft or attempted theft don’t prove that every traveller steals.

Just as, for example, not every cyclist ignores traffic lights, but plenty of angry motorists will claim they do, because they’ve seen some that do.

Well those that don’t are in collusion because they all live on the same site and all present a united and armed front when the police turn up.

There’s something of a gulf between “being politically correct” and “not making sweeping generalisations about an entire demographic.”

My personal experience of friendly travelling folk is less than favourable, but I can’t – well, I can, but I won’t – tar the lot of them with the same brush based on interactions with a minority of them.

I’ve argued before about the word “chav;” it’s not fair to generalise all the unemployed / impoverished young adults as chavs, but the ones who are breaking into sheds and stealing bikes, mugging old ladies for a few quid towards their next wrap, brawling in the streets at 11pm, and generally keeping Jeremy Kyle in gold bricks most certainly are chavs. Maybe the same is true of “pikey”? Some – most perhaps? – travellers aren’t “pikeys” but the ones leaving a trail of crime and destruction in their wake can safely be classified as such? Maybe.

‘pikeys’ live outside of our society, contribute no tax whatsoever, are often guilty of petty crime and in some instances serious organised crime, they are not just Irish or English, they can be Albanian, Romanian, Czech and from all manner of …

sounds like the super rich to me, tax havens, rigged markets, unaccoutability, oh and a gong or two thrown in……

The thread title needs changing now…

How about:

“Resentment towards authority, people above the law and outlaws”.

I’m offended by the Gingerist post on the last page.

Or rather I would be, but luckily for me most of my red hair vacated my head years ago, and what is left has gone grey. 🙂

Czech and from all manner of races, hell I even have a Romany in my own lineage and yes I often refer to myself in a self deprecating manner as a bit ‘pikey’.

Is one of you family gay or black? Perhaps you can be rude about them next?

It ain’t racial it is a lifestyle choice, one actually worse than that the unemployed are

You are Prince Philip and I claim my £5

Some – most perhaps? – travellers aren’t “pikeys” but the ones leaving a trail of crime and destruction in their wake can safely be classified as such? Maybe.

Problem is this is a just a comment on a racial group using a word used for that group-. Anyone can be a chav but only a gypsy can be a pikey. Its racially motivated if not racist* and therefore I would say it is best avoided. Why not call them a chav?

* i think most times it used it is racist tbh – read what is being said on here about them and every other gypsy thread
Could i start a thread on Asians and quote those posters verbatim and just replace the words to Asians or Black or gays – would that be ok ?

This is the most pretentious thread I’ve ever seen on STW.

tenfoot – Member
I’m offended by the Gingerist post on the last page.

Or rather I would be, but luckily for me most of my red hair vacated my head years ago, and what is left has gone grey.

You can always tell, even after the colour has gone. 😉

Pikey v ****

I must have missed that episode of Deadliest Warrior.

Grum, I just let out a proper hearty laugh, I think that’s an internet first for me! Thanks! 🙂

The word Chav, is actually more offensive than ‘Pikey’ given it’s recent use came as the description public and private school kids gave state school pupils. Back in the day, chav was a simple inoffensive greeting that street kids might use to each other, “alright chav?” fifties and early sixties, so now it used to insult any lower order group breaking ground in a tall poppy syndrome kind of fashion.

Either way, it is still extremely politically correct to demonise the use of slang from a googled pulpit of pseudo educated offence in my view purely to make someone feel uncomfortable on an internet forum and then to link it to racism.

The problem with ‘isms’ they are selective where their application should only apply when it is beyond the individuals ability by actual firm body type, to change, i.e.skin colour.

If I were born in Pakistan and white, would it be a problem referring to me as a ****?

What about extremely tall people and calling them lofty, or short people being called a dwarf?
No PC ‘ism’ label for them? Yet equally as hurtful, probably more so than for the white ****, he could pretend he wasn’t, so plausable deniability.

That’s the problem with the easily offended PC, very narrow in their ism selection.

Yet a group who leach off us, pay no tax yet use our schools and hospitals, steal by their very nature, not contributing to a society deliberately yet still cherry picking the bits you need, is theft, so yes, all Pikeys are thieves. Show me a traveller who pays council tax, income tax and NI and I would not refer to that person as a ‘pikey’.

Try to make me feel bad about the frivolous use of the word in describing someone acting in a mildy derogatory manner in jest and do it to my face in real life and I’ll assume your having a ‘bubble’.

That’s got to be it really, it has at least pointed out the lack of boredom here once ‘they’ get going, the PC brigade.

What about extremely tall people and calling them lofty, or short people being called a dwarf?
No PC ‘ism’ label for them? Yet equally as hurtful, probably more so than for the white ****, he could pretend he wasn’t, so plausable deniability.

You need a label to tell you you’re being a prick to someone? You whinge about isms and labels yet cry when you can’t find one.

You never answered the question earlier btw. Who did you used to be here?

The word Chav, is actually more offensive than ‘Pikey’ given it’s recent use came as the description public and private school kids gave state school pupils. Back in the day, chav was a simple inoffensive greeting that street kids might use to each other, “alright chav?” fifties and early sixties, so now it used to insult any lower order group breaking ground in a tall poppy syndrome kind of fashion.

Is that right? ‘Cos it’s not a term I can ever recall hearing used by anyone at all growing up, certainly it was never used by any kids close to my age group. I’ve only really heard the term used in the last five, six years.
But then, I never had the benefit of growing up in a place where there was any interaction between public and state schools.
I still don’t believe it was in common use in the 50-60’s.

so now it used to insult any lower order group breaking ground in a tall poppy syndrome kind of fashion

Eh? I always associate it’s use in connection with people who wear cheap high street fashions along with knock-offs of more expensive stuff, ie Burberry worn with Adidas trackies. I wouldn’t call that ‘breaking ground in a tall poppy syndrome kind of fashion’
But I’m not a fashion writer for a broadsheet newspaper, so WTF do I know…

I think wgm is a tax inspector certainly seems to want to check any travellers tax returns 🙂

Grum, I just let out a proper hearty laugh, I think that’s an internet first for me! Thanks!

🙂

I was wondering if anyone would pick up on that.

As someone who knows traveller families, lovely as they are, generally they are upto mischief of one kind or another; they don’t see it as mischief , ‘jus makin a few bob’ but its mischief. Sadly while they’re fun to have a pint with (until they’re drunk then its scary) no generalisations have been mad in this thread.

Also pikey is a made up word, call them pikey they’ll knock you out, gypo you might live.

Anyway, back to the OP for one brief moment

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/best-cook-pan-for-bike-packing

I’d say its a mixed bag.

I find this place very entertaining, helpful and often fun. I am not finding this thread any much of the latter two now.

Myself, I think the mods do a good job – apart from the time they closed my threads linking to a very funny site which they thought “Affiliate Links” ] – but then “meh” we all make mistakes. And after wards I acted like a tosser, so I deserved it.

Cougar’s attitude makes me smile, usually.

WGM – If I may stick my oar in – reading what you are typing, as-is. Yes you are being rude about and unfair towards Travellers if you call them Pikey. There are scumbags and there are non-scumbags. Persons of no fixed abode are not automatically scumbags, so you should not use derogatory language to refer to them, nor should you tar them all with the brush dipped in the bad-behaviour of some.

There is now a tax-free allowance of 8k+, so if a Travelling person earns less than that, they would not pay any tax on their income anyway -much the same as a low-paid shopworker for example. Not to mention Google et al.

They will be paying VAT and other taxes in the course of their lives in the UK won’t they?

There is also the matter of treating people with respect. THAT is how we grow an integrated and tolerant society, and where people’s natural talents shine through. Label them a Pikey, discriminate against them in other ways from assumptions and prejudice and you WILL find them on the edge of society – disillusioned and angry, ready to hit back at the society that has wronged them.

This is not “PC” this is just what’s right.

Entertainingly – from http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Political_correctness
“Passive-aggressive people who defend racism but don’t want to be labeled that way attack dissenters as “politically correct.””

I had a few travellers living down the lane from my folk’s house in Cornwall. One was a nice guy, had a hard life perhaps made a few mistakes but a good chap. It was when he was sent down [for possession of speed, which AFAIK he didn’t take or own [grass yes, but not that]] that he picked up a smack habit. THAT was what killed him. Nice one “justice” system.

The other people that joined him there [against his will] – they were fairly crazy, nicked a bit of petrol, grew some grass on the hill and made a mess. But meh – I’m more worried about corporate tax dodgers undermining the cash-flow of the entire country. Not to mention the multi-nationals exploiting their workers and sourcing their minerals from militia-controlled child slave run mines.

Maybe it just me. And Bill Hicks.

Always a good time for Bill Hicks. The flag burning routine is a favourite of mine.

had a hard life perhaps made a few mistakes

Well when the train I’m on can’t go anywhere because a gang of Roms have stolen all the signalling copper cable along the line those litte mistakes add to reasons to dislike them. Note it took 180 gendarmes backed up with helicopters to safely make the arrests.

When my vehicles are broken into or attempts made to steal them (the damage to my garage mechanics security systems ran into thousands but they saved my van) those little mistakes make me angry. I’m not the only one – again it took 150 BAC and Raid police to safely arrest the Roms who had already shot at the police.

Some groups of Roms make an honest living travelling around fruit picking, labouring etc. The camps in the major cities in France are not there because the occupants want to make an honest living. When a small minority are responsible for the majority of Metro robberies people’s prejudices are justified.

This is just the stuff that amazes me about the mods, the racism / prejudice that is being spouted here is beyond debate, yet the mods let it roll. Is it because no-one has complained? Really, does it take some to press a button before you recognise it?

I see no difference between this and the old stereotypes we used to here about South Asian and Black people.

What conclusions are we to draw from this?

Prejudices (of the type being discussed in this thread) should never really be justified – I say that writing as somebody who has been the victim of (mostly harmless, sometimes pretty hurtful, and just a few times, pretty scary) it over the years.

I’m not surprised at the level of prejudice in France though. After all, only a few years ago, a far right party polled just under 18% in the presidential election.