F1 2021 – spoilers here

I just wanted to add, how much of a team player is Bottas?

It’s an interesting problem. Russell, like Verstappen, has something of a reputation of a “stuff it in, see what happens” attitude when it comes to wheel to wheel overtaking. I’ve heard an accusation of  “reckless” thrown at him. I wonder if Mercedes need that right now? Its OK to smash your car to bits when you’ve nothing to loose, another thing all together when it’s the championship on the line, and I think everyone understands that your biggest rival is your team mate…2022 could be an interesting one from Hamilton’s perspective if Russel joins

I bet the RB marketing team were tearing their hair out watching the interview

I think you’ll find that they were the ones conducting the interview. At least DC said at least once that “LH was not a dirty driver”. I too am a little tired of the partisan commentary.

Thought Bottas played a very straight bat yesterday.

Is that right, Verstappen stopped following Hamilton on Instagram? Really? is he still a child. How pathetic.

Yep, I heard that too.

He might as well just hand the championship over to Hamilton right now.

EDIT – it is better to just watch Horner’s Sky interview. The hate in his voice and the way he puts his words across is the definition of inflammatory in my book.

Thanks for the link. Seems very similar to the C4 interviews, he was repeating many of the same lines.

I agree he goes a bit far, and crucially he certainly fails to acknowledge that on entry Hamilton was fully alongside, not just “chucking a wheel”. But I still think it’s even more unreasonable to suggest that it was courting racism. YMMV.

This guy 😂

https://www.racefans.net/2021/07/19/fia-unmoved-as-horner-calls-mercedes-lobbying-of-stewards-unacceptable/

Yep, I heard that too.

I suspect (I admit that I’m guessing) the hand of his dad, Jos here. He’s a proper nasty bit of work, and TBH Max has done well to keep out of the family side-business of beating people up. I can imagine it’s the sort of thing he’d say to the press; because he’s a ****

One person that certainly comes out of this mess smelling of roses is Michael Masi. He’s been so bang-on straight up the middle that you almost wince from the painful truth whenever you put his comments up against anyone else’s 🙂

“Seems very similar to the C4 interviews, he was repeating many of the same lines.”

That kind of illustrates the point. He not only made some over the top remarks, he doubled down on them. I know we all see things slightly differently but I thought Coultard and Blue Peter guy were seeing things the same way as me, a bit surprised at how far CH was going and nervous of the consequences for Horner, Lewis, Max, Red Bull and F1 in general.

I felt like they were weighing up wether to confront him more and wether their own jobs would be on the line if they said what they were really thinking. I think they got it about right, they gave CH a chance to temper his words then backed off and thought let Horner dig an even bigger hole for himself. Webbers’ position (ex red bull) kind of bought the complex relationship between sport, commerce and journalism to the fore as well, he looked a bit embarrassed. The sky guy on the other hand just looked absolutely terrified when conducting his interview.

I’m sure Lewis knew that every word coming out of Horners mouth would result in exponential amounts of on-line abuse (and print, let’s not forget the Daily Mail). And that’s what happened. The thing is, just like when he was a kid, Hamilton will take all the negativity and turn it into a positive out on the track.

“So I went to make sure that our view was represented because I don’t think it’s right that team principals should be able to go and lobby the stewards. They should be locked away so that they’re not influenced”

I’m loving the double standards…

Not really – doesn’t think it should be allowed but as it is, he’d be daft to not present his counter claim if the other guy’s going to.

The sky guy on the other hand just looked absolutely terrified when conducting his interview.

Yeah, was a bit surprised Ted Kravitz was that awkward and not a bit more forthright.

and from the Racefans link:

Wolff rejected Horner’s complaint, saying he got in touch with Masi after hearing about Horner’s message to the race director, which was played on the television broadcast.

So who actually started the lobbying first…I can’t keep track 🙂

The footage from the helicopter in slo motion shows Max closing the door on Lewis so Max’s aggressive cornering was aimed at sending Lewis off track or braking hard enough to flat spot his tyres, Max knew he was there, where else would he be, Lewis just stayed the course so its a racing incident in my book 50/50 aggressive driving. I think Max would rather right off his car than give way to Lewis. Also, you just know Senna’s quote to Jackie stewart was in Lewis’s head, if you no longer go for a gap that exists you are no longer a racing driver. Ballsy move to go inside at copse and anyone else but Max would have gone a bit wider and shown more respect to Lewis or pussied out which ever way you view it.

Nonsense – Max left more than a car and a half width. Hamilton knew he had to pass on the first lap. Far too high an entry speed and understeered into max

What you forget is max had a far higher downforce so could corner at higher speeds. hamilton went in too hot

What you forget is it’s a 190mph corner, it’s the first lap of the race so tyres are not up to temperature, Max pushed Lewis onto the dirty part of the track, on the wrong line. Grip levels are unknown to the driver. Lewis still made it round the corner. He did not go in too hot. Max had the option to run wide (as Leclerc did) . Lewis didn’t as Max was in the way.

I’ve driven an F3 car round Copse. Even at 140mph, once you turn in you don’t get much chance to change your line. You can run wide, you can’t tighten.

Max has done what Lewis did on multiple occasions – stuffed it up the inside. Every time the driver on the outside has given way to avoid the collision. Lewis had to get past Max there or Max would drive off into the distance. If Max had let him go, he’d probably have got back in front anyway. The smart choice from Max would have been to give way.

Max is a brilliant driver, but you win championships by being smart and choosing your battles, not fighting every corner. If Max learns that he’ll win multiple championships, if he doesn’t, he won’t.

Horner is still a dick though.

Pretty much sums it up perfectly ^

Especially the final sentence 😂

I really hope the wheels fall off Verstappen’s title race after this weekend. He’s a reet spoilt little tit. I can’t believe the way he and Horner have conducted themselves over the whole incident. **** embarrassing.

Hamilton was coming at him like a cruise missile the whole first half of the lap and after being met with a high level of aggression on two occasions, the third time that aggression was matched and Verstappen came off worse. Hamilton had been pushed to the absolute limit by him into the right hand side of the straight close to the barrier, the complete opposite side of the track you want to be on for a right hand corner. He was always going to understeer wide but the child just couldn’t yield and he paid the price. Problem is I just don’t think he’ll learn and will continue being an aggressive little prick. Can’t wait for the next race. If only to see Horner make an absolute mug of himself again if he doesn’t get his way. Also, bravo to the Red Bull gives you whinge comments up thread 😂

I really hope the wheels fall off Verstappen’s title race after this weekend. He’s a reet spoilt little tit.

I understand that feeling, but I wish he would just be a little bit more mature. He is a very talented driver and it’s great to see him and Hamilton going at it in competitive cars. Whichever one of them wins the title will deserve it, but I hope it stays clean and respectful. Having the title go down to the final race would be the best thing the sport could hope for.

Keep in mind, drivers and team managers are only human and only very competitive personalities can function at that level of sport. You’ll always get a bit of boiling over of emotions when two competitive personalities go head to head, so things like this are to be expected. Hopefully both teams will cool off a bit and it’ll go back to just being good, hard racing.

I used to really dislike Max when he first arrived on the scene. He was clearly very fast, but seemed to lack maturity and judgement, which was unsurprising given his young age and influence of his father. Then he seemed to do a bit of introspection and suddenly started driving much more maturely. I still don’t like him as a person, but he would be a very deserving champion. I hope he does the same again and responds in a positive way.

To be fair to Max, Hamilton has behaved a bit immaturely at times over the years and races very aggressively when he needs to. I don’t think he’s dirty in the way Schumacher was, but Rosberg clearly got under his skin and Hamilton was a bit more robust in defending than you would normally expect from a teammate. I do think that this was just a racing incident, but Hamilton was driving very, very aggressively on that first lap.

I’m with dannybgoode, Horner repeatedly making such wildly insulting comments was only ever going to go one way. It’s not to say Hamilton should be immune from criticism but people should think before vilifying someone like that (especially on such spurious grounds).

He did not go in too hot.

That he was so far from the apex that he sent it a postcard says otherwise 😉

Is Max a brilliant driver though? Or is he just hyper-aggressive? I’m not so sure.

I certainly wasn’t aware of him and his dad’s shenanigans until a page or so back! That was very interesting reading. I remember Jos being a fairly mediocre driver BITD, who’s obviously left F1 with a pocketful of cash and a penchant for booze, violence and shady dealings.

He now seems to be the very embodiment of the football dad standing on the halfway line swearing at the referee of his 10 year old son’s soccer match.

Is Max a brilliant driver though?

Yes, he’s astonishingly fast. The only teammate who has held his own was Ricciardo.

I remember Jos being a fairly mediocre driver BITD

I think he was reasonably talented but had the worst possible teammate, plus he’s an utter **** so hard to have any sympathy for him.

Is Max a brilliant driver though? Or is he just hyper-aggressive? I’m not so sure.

Oh, he’s both: I don’t think there’s any doubt about either of those qualities. Look at how he’s performed against his teammates, how he’s performed in wet races, how he’s found lines that virtually no-one else would use, how he’s always exploited the first lap to gain places, and so on. In terms of actual driving I’d say he’s as good as probably anyone you care to mention. Whether the aggression is a help or a hindrance in various situations is perhaps a different matter, and incidents like this might suggest that his judgement needs work, but you don’t win championships by opening the door for people. I don’t especially like the guy either (though to be fair to him he’s become a vastly more reasonable character in his time in F1), but in terms of talent behind the wheel, he’s right up there.

Is Max a brilliant driver though?

yes, beyond doubt.

No question, Max is a superb driver and if he wins the WDC he’ll be a thoroughly deserving winner. It’s also well worth pointing out that Max isn’t Jos. BTW Max’s mother raced karts herself as a kid alongside Jenson Button and Christian Horner, Dario Franchitti etc – she’s apparently pretty handy herself and it’s fair to say that Max’s talent doesn’t just come from his father’s side.

I don’t have a particularly high personal opinion of Jos, but then the sport has featured a number of gold plated dickheads over the years and Jos Verstappen has plenty of company in this category.

the worst possible teammate, plus he’s an utter ****

<shudder>

Schumacher, Verstappen Sr and Flav… I mean, that’s quite the gang, no? 😬

but Hamilton was driving very, very aggressively on that first lap.

He was – and undoubtedly because he knew he had to move quickly with MV having a quicker car – either by making the overtake or by forcing an error. I think it is going to be very interesting for the remainder of the season now as Hamilton knows he hasn’t got the fastest car so to stand a chance of winning the title, he has to change tactics and I think that first lap proved he knows what he has to do to stand a chance – and after all this might be his last chance at surpassing Schumacher.

Could draw a comparison to Rossi vs Stoner 2008 Laguna Seca. Rossi knew he didn’t have the pace but had to just keep mugging Stoner until he forced an error. unfortunately Silverstones battle lasted less than a lap

It’s interesting how earlier in the season when Hamilton was ahead in the points, it was Verstappen lobbing it up the inside and Hamilton having to choose to have the crash or not – he bailed out each time as he knew it “was a marathon, not a sprint” and he had more to lose than Verstappen at that point.

Now the roles have been reversed, and it’s Hamilton who has nothing to lose (behind in the points, so second to Verstappen really is the first loser), so is putting the moves on – Verstappen needs to learn when a corner isn’t worth fighting over (hopefully he won’t this season, as I’d quite like Hamilton to win it:-)

Verstappen needs to learn when a corner isn’t worth fighting over

Lewis explained this to Max in the drivers room after his collision with am unlapping Ocon in Brazil, losing him the win. Max was ranting away about how it was all Ocons fault, Lewis asked why he even got involved, let him go, you (max) had so much more to lose.

Seems it fell on deaf ears.

My thoughts on #SilverstoneGP:

1. I am very glad Max is OK. That crash looked horrible.
2. It was a pure racing incident.
3. The accident will sure put some fire between Max and Lewis.
4. New race format was exiting to watch.

Read more: https://t.co/2xzAvUydve@unibet #F1

— Mika Häkkinen (@F1MikaHakkinen) July 20, 2021

The impact had similarities to Hakkinen’s Adelaide shunt so I would imagine it resonated especially with him…

But, again, another driver calling it a racing incident:
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.palmer-the-hamilton-verstappen-clash-polarised-opinion-but-i-believe-it-was.4YywgtRgaAvT9WUvXiKGCg.html

I’ve yet to see anyone other than Red Bull employees and social media gobshites saying otherwise, I think.

Redbull employees and the torygraph:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2021/07/19/lewis-hamilton-has-gone-dark-side-skulduggery-schumacher-proportions/

Not the fighter he was,” Bernie Ecclestone declared last week of Lewis Hamilton. That theory, at least, has been emphatically scotched by the seven-time world champion’s eighth Silverstone triumph, as dramatic and consequential as any in his vast canon of victories. But the question that will linger long after the champagne dries is whether this extraordinary twist in the 2021 world championship was fairly earned. For while the victor was cavorting with 140,000 fans, Max Verstappen, his vanquished title rival, was being checked over in a Northamptonshire hospital after a first-lap collision where stewards laid the blame squarely at the Mercedes driver’s door.

It was Christian Horner, Red Bull’s team principal, who levelled the claim that would rankle most deeply with Hamilton: “Dirty driving.” For 14½ seasons in Formula One, Hamilton has escaped almost any accusations of sharp practice, a distinction that works in his favour in the constant comparisons with Michael Schumacher, a competitor notorious for aggressive driving tactics. But his actions in the clash at Copse corner, which sent Verstappen spinning into a wall at 180mph and were deemed worthy by officials of a 10-second penalty, must surely count as a blot on his copybook.

The intensity of Verstappen’s impact, Horner disclosed, was measured at 51G, roughly five times the gravitational force to which fighter pilots are subject when they are performing loop-the-loops. Little wonder that he was described as “massively winded” in the aftermath, or that he had to be sent for further investigations. “I hope Lewis is happy with himself,” Horner said, acidly, dismissing a golden day for Hamilton as a “hollow victory”.

Hamilton, naturally, regarded it as anything but. He waved the Union flag, he communed with his ecstatic supporters in the Silverstone sunshine, he choked back tears as he spoke of his pride in the record-extending achievement at his home circuit. But while the high-fives were exchanged at Mercedes, a cold fury was building at Red Bull. “Dangerous” and “desperate”: that was Horner’s verdict on an accident from which Verstappen was fortunate to escape without more serious injury. It is a rare sight when Horner has to walk away from a TV interview, lest his rage lead him to say anything else he might regret.

To be sure, Hamilton’s was a move unworthy of a driver of his experience and reputation for fairness. His defence in the moment simply did not stack up. “I was ahead going in there, man”, he told his race engineer of his conduct at Copse, among the fastest corners anywhere in F1. Except frame-by-frame replays provided evidence to the contrary. His car was not ahead of Verstappen’s at any stage, while the nature of the contact – his front-left tyre to the Dutchman’s right-rear – suggested that he had been fighting a losing battle. The impression was that he was frustrated by his failure to execute the overtake earlier in the lap and that he tried to make amends at the most perilous point on the circuit.

Hamilton has seldom faced a duel of this ferocity in his career. Be in no doubt, this represents the stage at which the hostilities bubble over. Not only will it accentuate tensions with Verstappen, it will, as Horner’s body language makes abundantly clear, aggravate hostilities between Mercedes and Red Bull. After this agony, the challengers will be doubly intent on deposing the champions from their perch.

“The empire strikes back,” grinned Toto Wolff, after Hamilton had grasped an unexpected pole position for Silverstone’s maiden sprint race. Except he could hardly have guessed how quickly, in this most tempestuous British Grand Prix, his star driver would lurch across to the dark side.

So on one side we have erring on it being a racing incident:

Alonso
Hakkinen
Palmer
Leclerc
Karun Chandhok
Damon Hill

In the middle saying possibly Hamilton’s fault we have
Ricciardo
Button

And on the other, saying it was attempted murder a clear penalty:

Christian Horner
Helmut Marko
Perez
TJ 😉

Redbull employees and the torygraph:

Oh, I don’t regard the rent-a-spin words of columnists in national rags as worthy of any merit at all, they’d write that it was Marcus Ericsson’s fault if someone paid them to.

Redbull employees and the torygraph:

“Noted black woke liberal elite remainer Lewis Hamilton’s support for BLM proved to be a distraction when Hamilton deliberately drove into Max Verstappen (who isn’t black) at the weekend… blah, blah, Extinction Rebellion, blah, blah, nurse, Hitler did lots of good things, blah, blah…a large whisky aged to perfection, blah, blah… Snaaaaake!”

retro – you forgot the stewards put the blame mainly on Hamilton with a bit on Max ( sorry i keep calling one by first names and one by surnames – it only means i cannot spell Maxs surname )

Ie Max could have avoided it but the main blame was Hamilton because he missed the apex cos he went in too hot.

Asking the Telegraph to write a fair and balanced piece about Lewis Hamilton is like asking them to take the knee.

Ie Max could have avoided it but the main blame was Hamilton because he missed the apex cos he went in too hot.

To be fair, he made the corner.

“Ie Max could have avoided it but the main blame was Hamilton because he missed the apex cos he went in too hot.”

So you’re saying Lewis couldn’t avoid the collision and Max had the choice not to steer into him at 180 miles an hour but did anyhow?

It’s a bit like being on your bike and a car coming at you out of control on the wrong side of the road and you dont take avoiding action because technically it’s your right of way.

You’re also likely to end up in hospital just like Maxy boy, (only you’ll likely be in there for a little longer than a check up) but I’m sure the driver will get points on their licence so that’s ok.

There’s no rule that says you must take the apex of every corner. You can place your car anywhere as long as you leave a car’s width.

Max needs to sort his head out or he’ll never win a championship.