Viewing 40 posts - 5,281 through 5,320 (of 5,338 total)
  • F1 2021 – spoilers here
  • Premier Icon thols2
    Free Member

    Well, thank God that year’s over and the shambles in Abu Dhabi is all forgotten about.

    Premier Icon the-muffin-man
    Full Member

    Not quite!…

    The Christmas break is almost done and I can’t be the only one who couldn’t bring themselves to watch any of the F1 season reviews. Those last few laps devalued not just that race but the rest of the season for me.

    Eagerly awaiting car launches and testing now so I can move on! 🙂

    Premier Icon thols2
    Free Member

    I’m eagerly awaiting the next Drive to Survive. Can’t wait to see how they manipulatively edit it to insert some bogus drama into it all.

    Premier Icon RickDraper
    Full Member

    I haven’t watched any F1 since the final race. That got turned off after the sham of a final lap and I haven’t felt any desire to watch the season reviews. Still undecided if I am going to bother watching this year, what’s the point when it like WWF.

    Premier Icon boblo
    Free Member

    Aye not for me. I’ve been following it for ~30 years but no more.

    Premier Icon jamesoz
    Full Member

    I’ll carry on watching it but only when it suits or on catch-up, certainly won’t pay to view anymore.
    Won’t let it get in the way of riding my bike again.
    Probably won’t go to anymore races

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Full Member

    Premier Icon boriselbrus
    Full Member

    Same here. 40 is years of following F1 but no interest now. I’m not particularly even a Hamilton fan, more Mclaren but the rule breaking manipulation of that last lap, then failure of the FIA to address it means I can’t take it seriously.

    Premier Icon thepurist
    Full Member

    I’m waiting to see what (if anything) changes in the aftermath of the Abu Dhabi fiasco. The FIA have the chance to look at the big picture which started ages ago (even in the Charlie days, remember Seb having a sweary rant after a certain Mr verstappen pulled a dodgy move) and making some decisive changes about track limits, passing, weaving, brake testing and even general driver and team conduct. Maybe they can clear up a lot of the ifs and buts, make stewarding more consistent and have a better system of penalties. And, possibly just as likely, maybe Massivespin will stick the Haas on pole at the first race…

    Premier Icon BigJohn
    Full Member

    I think it’s a bit rich for people to complain that the end of the last race was contrived. So many rule changes over the last 10 years or so have been designed just to roll the dice and take away a well built up lead. Safety cars, VSC, DRS, Starting on your Q2 tyre, Mandatory use of 2 tyre compounds, Changing tyres under red flag. It’s like playing snakes and ladders.
    There was never going to be a straightforward outcome once Latifi crashed with 5 laps to go and there could have been worse ones.

    Premier Icon TiRed
    Full Member

    It’s like playing snakes and ladders

    Yes but they don’t change the location of the snakes and ladders, not the number of sides of the dice during the game.

    Premier Icon jamesoz
    Full Member

    Bad luck under the safety car, Is exactly that.

    Changing the rules during the safety car, to get a ‘racing’ last lap?

    It’s the definition of contrived.

    Explain how it isn’t?

    Premier Icon andrewh
    Free Member

    What they said ^
    As long as any contrivance is set out before the race, everyone knows what it is and how it works, then fairs fair. Sometimes you benefit, sometimes the other guy does.
    Changing rules mid-race is a different thing entirely

    Premier Icon shermer75
    Free Member

    Same goes for changing the rules mid race for some of the competitors, but not others. As in allowing the cars between Lewis and Max unlap themselves, but all the others cannot.

    Premier Icon boriselbrus
    Full Member

    Yup. If Latifi’s crash had happened with 10 laps to go, Max changed tyres and Lewis didn’t, the rules were followed and Max won then fine.

    But Mercedes made their decision based on the rules. Then Massi unilaterally changed the rules to give Max the win.

    Then the stewards agreed that Massi could change the rules whenever he wanted.

    That’s why it’s pointless now. You fight like crazy for 10 months but whether you win or lose is decided by the whim of one official.

    And that’s before you get into the inconsistencies of whether or not it’s OK to send it up the inside to overtake even if that means you can’t make the corner yourself. Sometimes it’s fine, sometimes you give back the position, sometimes it’s a penalty. Even the drivers don’t know what’s allowed and what isn’t.

    Pointless.

    Premier Icon Daffy
    Full Member

    The two ways to end it PROPERLY were:

    1. The undramatic way – finish under the safety car. Precedent in France.
    2. The dramatic (and slightly contrived) way – red flag with 5 laps to go, everyone gets a change of tyres, everyone starts in the correct position, everyone gets a fair shot and we have FIVE laps of racing to determine the title. Precedent in Saudi Arabia.

    #2 would NOT have been done at any other race, they would have simply finished under the SC.

    Premier Icon multi21
    Free Member

    The two ways to end it PROPERLY were:

    1. The undramatic way – finish under the safety car. Precedent in France.
    2. The dramatic (and slightly contrived) way – red flag with 5 laps to go, everyone gets a change of tyres, everyone starts in the correct position, everyone gets a fair shot and we have FIVE laps of racing to determine the title. Precedent in Saudi Arabia.

    #2 would NOT have been done at any other race, they would have simply finished under the SC.

    Well or 3, bring the SC in on the last lap but not allow cars to unlap themselves. Would have been annoying but at least in line the rules as we know them.

    Premier Icon theotherjonv
    Full Member

    or 4, allow all cars to unlap themselves.

    Premier Icon pondo
    Full Member

    There was never going to be a straightforward outcome once Latifi crashed with 5 laps to go and there could have been worse ones.

    Eg?

    I ouldn’t even watch SPOTY because I knew they’d cover it.

    Premier Icon nickc
    Full Member

    There was never going to be a straightforward outcome once Latifi crashed with 5 laps to go

    They literally have a rule-book to tell them what to do when a drivers crashes. It’s the very definition of straightforward, it couldn’t be clearer.

    Premier Icon andrewh
    Free Member

    2. The dramatic (and slightly contrived) way – red flag with 5 laps to go, everyone gets a change of tyres, everyone starts in the correct position, everyone gets a fair shot and we have FIVE laps of racing to determine the title. Precedent in Saudi Arabia.

    Baku.
    That one went against Hamilton too but no protest from him or Mercedes or the fans or anyone, because the rules were followed.

    Premier Icon shermer75
    Free Member

    I’m with boriselbus, not sure if I can be arsed to invest my time in something that’s decided on a whim

    Premier Icon thols2
    Free Member

    Premier Icon BigJohn
    Full Member

    I didn’t say there couldn’t be a straightforward outcome I said there was never going to be one.

    Finishing the season behind the safety car? I don’t think so.

    Premier Icon pondo
    Full Member

    I didn’t say there couldn’t be a straightforward outcome I said there was never going to be one.

    Sure there was – follow the rules, job done. That’s happened before, you know (71 times).

    Premier Icon jamesoz
    Full Member

    Finishing the season behind the safety car? I don’t think so.

    Why do you not think so?

    Premier Icon Rich_s
    Full Member

    Special treatment is also present in other sports…
    “Organisers said the defending champion had not been given special treatment.”
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-59876203

    Premier Icon thegreatape
    Free Member

    or 4, allow all cars to unlap themselves.

    True, although that would have resulted in 1 due to lack of time/laps remaining.

    Premier Icon thols2
    Free Member

    or 4, allow all cars to unlap themselves.

    True, although that would have resulted in 1 due to lack of time/laps remaining.

    This is the whole problem right there. Masi missed the opportunity to call a red flag with 5 laps left to go. Having missed that chance, there wasn’t enough time to clean up the mess and follow the normal safety-car protocol and have a green-flag finish. The rules state that “any” lapped cars must be allowed to unlap themselves and that the safety car will be called in one lap after the final lapped car has unlapped itself. If that protocol had been followed, the race would have finished behind the safety car. Masi seems to have panicked and decided to just get the lapped cars out of Verstappen’s way and then call in the safety car as the only way to finish under a green flag. The FIA is dodging the issue, apparently the Race Director has discretion to change safety car protocol as he deems necessary.

    Premier Icon nickc
    Full Member

    The rules state that “any” lapped cars must be allowed to unlap themselves

    Any decent lawyer sees that “any” there and calls it out for the ambiguity that it clearly is. Does that any mean  All? Some? Some of time? at the RD discretion? what exactly?

    It’s why Masi is still in his job.

    Premier Icon thols2
    Free Member

    Any decent lawyer sees that “any” there and calls it out for the ambiguity that it clearly is

    In that case, “any” unambiguously means “all” to a court. For example, if a law states that “any person found in possession of X is liable to a term of imprisonment…”, it means all people, not some people. If it mean some people then it would have to mean no people or else the penalty would be completely arbitrary depending on the whim of the judge on that day.

    Premier Icon lawman91
    Full Member

    Easy way to solve it, if there is any incident that is deemed worthy of a full safety car (not VSC) in the last 5 laps, then throw a red flag. All drivers can change tyres and they have the remaining lap/s from a standing restart like we had in Baku. It avoids the need for a rash reaction to better the “show” and everyone knows where they stand. Yes, it’s still harsh if you loose a huge lead and then loose the race like Lewis did, but at least they’re all fighting on the same terms.

    Premier Icon thegreatape
    Free Member

    This is the whole problem right there. Masi missed the opportunity to call a red flag with 5 laps left to go.

    Absolutely. Although I think as it stands the decision whether to use VSC, SC or red flag is purely safety based, so under the current regs I don’t think he should be allowed to throw a red flag purely to create a better finish. However, if the regs were changed as lawman suggests, so that everyone knows that any incident near the end will always be a red flag, that would be a different matter.

    Premier Icon Twodogs
    Full Member

    You would run the risk of the race running out of time, maybe? If there had been earlier red flags for rain or accidents….can’t recall whether red flags stop the “race clock”

    Premier Icon bigdaddy
    Full Member

    Does that then create the risk of teammates of say Max in the last race scenario ‘accidently’ hitting the wall so that a gap can be closed under a red flag and present an opportunity to win though?

    Premier Icon ads678
    Full Member

    I’d say, if a crash happens within 5 or 10 laps of the finish, Red flag it then release all driver from the pit lane in race order and at the correct time intervals prior to red flag.

    Every one back out on track as if nothing happened, just all probably on super softs.

    Premier Icon thols2
    Free Member

    Does that then create the risk of teammates of say Max in the last race scenario ‘accidently’ hitting the wall so that a gap can be closed under a red flag and present an opportunity to win though?

    Nobody would be dishonest enough to pull a stunt like that, surely.

    Premier Icon parkesie
    Free Member

    Not again anyway.

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Full Member

    Well, thank God that year’s over and the shambles in Abu Dhabi is all forgotten about.

    😂😂😂😂😂

    Premier Icon Bez
    Full Member

    Any decent lawyer sees that “any” there and calls it out for the ambiguity that it clearly is.

    I’d just replace “any” with “some but not necessarily all” across the entire document and ask the FIA whether they were still happy with their regs, or whether they’d prefer “any” to be interpreted a little less creatively.

    Anyone can see that it’s entirely unambiguous. And if you disagree with that statement as written then you’ve shot down your own argument.

Viewing 40 posts - 5,281 through 5,320 (of 5,338 total)

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