Shimano CUES

Goodbye Deore? Hello Shimano CUES!

by 161

Big news for mid-tier mountain bikes as Shimano CUES enters the chat and kills off Deore (well, Deore 12-speed will remain), Tiagra, Alivio, Sora and other familiar groupsets.

Shimano CUES

No more Deore 9-11 speed. No more… er, any of the existing MTB and road groupsets below SLX and 105 in fact.

The new Shimano CUES marque replaces Deore, Alivio, Acera and Altus on the off-road side of things. And replaces Tiagra, Sora and Claris on the road scene.

1x

No-more trickle-down

The fundamental idea of Shimano CUES is that lower-end groupsets are no longer ‘trickle down’ versions of tech that used to be XTR or Dura-Ace twenty to thirty years ago. CUES stuff is a relative blank slate.

CUES drivetrains are designed first with the everyday and/or beginner rider in mind first and foremost. Qualities such as simplicity, cross-compatibility, and durability are how Shimano are explaining CUES. Not racing, lightweight or innovation.

Multiple CUES

While on the one hand CUES is ostensibly simpler. It isn’t the case that’s it’s all just one all-encompassing CUES drivetrain. There are multiple CUES drivetrains, each with a number series attached eg. Shimano CUES U6000.

There will be 9-speed CUES, 10-speed CUES and 11-speed CUES.

While there will still be front mechs on some CUES drivetrains intended for trekking and road use, for mountain biking, CUES is 1x specific. Chainrings are all narrow-wide retaining designs. Almost all the rear mechs will have clutches in them (the lowest tier CUES U4000 rear mech will just have a much-stronger spring).

MTB = CUES U600

To briefly go into the number series, U8000 is essentially XT for trekking bikes and as such probably won’t be encountered by MTBers. It’s the U6000 CUES stuff that will be the main stuff. If you know you’re Shimano numbers, you can kinda get the vibe that Deore M6000 has been replaced by U600.

RD-U8020

Shimano appear to be being nice (or just realistic) and state that CUES products will work just fine with third party components, provided they are the same speed (9, 10 or 11). This means that bike brands, and members of the public, can spec a non-Shimano cassette in their otherwise CUES-equipped bikes.

Interestingly, during their presentation Shimano explained that their 11-speed stuff was theoretically the most durable of all the speeds they produce. Something to do with having the most surface area interacting between chain and teeth.

Look away 12-speeders

At this point all you 11-speed hold-outs can punch the air and look smug. And all you 12-speeders out there can sigh, roll your eyes and/or curse.

9-speed CUES will offer 11-46T cassettes. 10-speed is 11-48T. 11-speed is 11-50T.

All CUES shifters will actually pull the same amount of cable per actuation; it’s just that the 11-speed shifter will have 11 clicks, the 10 has 10 clicks and the 9 has 9 clicks.

At the cranks there’s not much to report. External cup Hollowtech II bottom brackets remain. With good ol’ square taper bringing up the very lowest CUES tiers.

LG700 cassette

Linkglide

Remember the more-durable Shimano Linkglide drivetrain parts that were announced a couple of years ago? Shimano CUES goes hand-in-hand with Linkglide. Yep, the CUES ‘roadmap’ is why Linkglide wasn’t produced in 12-speed flavour.

If you remember the Linkglide launch you may remember the flak that the LG600 cassette got for being rather portly (780g claimed weight). Shimano have ditched that cassette. The new LG (Linkglide) cassettes are not really any appreciably different to their HG (Hyperglide) siblings.

At this point we think it’s worth pointing out that Linkglide offers the smoothest shifting of ANY Shimano groupset, XTR/Dura Ace including. It also no longer requires the rider to back off the gas during shifts. Just keep the power down and it just… shifts. Linkglide also claims to be significantly stronger and more durable than non-Linkglide components.

Although closely allied to CUES, and definitely relevant, Linkglide stuff will not have the same series numbers as CUES stuff. Linkglide items are all prefixed with LG (LG700, LG400, LG300 and so on). As mentioned, there is currently no Deore-equivalent Linkglide cassette. The LG700 cassette is the nearest (which is essentially SLX-ish level Linkglide).

New hubs!

Tacked on at the end of the CUES presentation was a quick look at some new hubs. The CUES hubs feature various departures from Shimano’s usual way of doing them. Modular axles and freehubs ie. can be converted from QR to bolt-thru, Microspline to Hyperglide freehub).

And… cartridge bearings! Shimano were at pains to point out that they haven’t just relented from their cup-and-cone dogma and slapped cartridge bearings in. The (TC600/500) CUES hubs have labyrinth and contact seals in them to make them better sealed than most cartridge bearing designs. There are also twin double-row bearings in the freehub part of the axle.

Some press release snippets

  • “Featuring our high-durability LINKGLIDE technology, SHIMANO CUES offers smoother shifting, more durable components, and standardizes compatibility across a wide range of categories.”
  • “By consolidating our 9-, 10-, and 11-speed component ranges with interchangeable components, including common derailleur pulleys, cassette sprockets and chains, simplifies mid-tier bikes.”
  • “The lineup features unified sprocket spacing across our 9-, 10-, and 11-speed drivetrains, so that components can be intermixed across a wider range of user groups and riding styles.”
  • “With taller and thicker cassette teeth, providing additional surface area this mitigates the chain from skipping and distributes pedaling forces to prevent premature wear due to shifts from novice riders.”
  • “Extended Component Lifespan – Cassettes and chains built to withstand consistent daily wear and tear of both analog and high-torque e-bike use.”

More info to follow

All-in-all, CUES appears to be great… for anyone using less than 12-speeds on their mountain bike.

We’re still finding out more about CUES (including UK prices and what, if any, cross compatibility with 12-speed stuff there is) and hope to bring you some more info – and real-world photos of the U600 stuff – very shortly.

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Orange Switch 6er. Stif Squatcher. Schwalbe Magic Mary Purple Addix front. Maxxis DHR II 3C MaxxTerra rear. Coil fan. Ebikes are not evil. I have been a writer for nigh on 20 years, a photographer for 25 years and a mountain biker for 30 years. I have written countless magazine and website features and route guides for the UK mountain bike press, most notably for the esteemed and highly regarded Singletrackworld. Although I am a Lancastrian, I freely admit that West Yorkshire is my favourite place to ride. Rarely a week goes by without me riding and exploring the South Pennines.

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Home Forums Goodbye Deore? Hello Shimano CUES!

Viewing 40 posts - 121 through 160 (of 161 total)
  • Goodbye Deore? Hello Shimano CUES!
  • kelvin
    Full Member

    would be “de-re” (with a long vowel), not “deore”

    Yes, but they would have been making up a new unique name, not reusing an existing word… just starting with it. It might well be that Shimano have it wrong, or want to re-write history to tell the story they want, but their copy does say…

    “SHIMANO DEORE was introduced as a full-fledged components series for touring at the beginning of the 1980s. DEORE was a coined word from deer, representing the touring scene with riders splendidly riding around fields and mountains on bicycles while enjoying cycling.”

    And they did stick the Deer head logo on the first Deore XT… for some reason.

    thols2
    Full Member

    Yes, but they were making up a new unique name, not reusing a existing word… just starting with it.

    But, the transliteration of “d’or” into Japanese is ディオーレ, which transcribes to English as “deore”. So, the origin of the word is “d’or” (gold). When they sold it internationally, people had no idea what it meant and mistook it for “deer”. Shimano marketing saw this and decided to use the deer thing as marketing. It isn’t a transliteration of “deer”.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    But, the transliteration of “d’or” into Japanese is ディオーレ, which transcribes to English as “deore”. So, the origin of the word is “d’or” (gold).

    Where have Shimano ever said that? I mean, while trying to work out what the name refers to, an outsider could understandably guess at that being what it meant… but did Shimano ever say that it meant that?

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Wish I still had my one of these tees…

    DiorXT

    thols2
    Full Member

    did Shimano ever say that it meant that?

    It’s how you write “d’or” in Japanese. It’s not how you write “deer.” It doesn’t mean “deer” in Japanese and no Japanese person would think it does because that’s not the transliteration of “deer” into Japanese, leaving aside that the Japanese word for deer is “shika”. The deer thing is just some nonsense the Shimano marketing people made up after English speakers mistook the word.

    hightensionline
    Full Member

    And the deer head logo? If it’s a marketing thing, then it’s over 40 years old now.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    So, nothing from Shimano… who say something different thols2? It is theirs.

    Round and round… [ from 12 years ago ]

    What does 'Deore' mean??

    thols2
    Full Member

    And the deer head logo? If it’s a marketing thing, then it’s over 40 years old now.

    The original Deore didn’t use the deer-head marketing or logo. That came out with Deore XT, two years later. Shimano marketing had time to spot that English speakers confused “deore” and “deer” and then create a story that it was a Japanese transliteration of “deer”.

    its actually stated on Shimano’s own website that it means Deer.

    Because that’s the nonsense their marketing people came out with after seeing that English speakers confused the words. Japanese people don’t use “deore” to mean “deer”. It’s just something that Shimano marketing made up. If you look at the origin of the Mitsubishi Starion, the marketing department insist it means “star orion”, not a misspelling of “stallion” (Mitsubishi had horse derived model names like “Colt”, and “Canter”). The reality is that they were embarrassed because they misspelled “stallion” as “starion”, but they couldn’t admit it publicly. Marketing people make up nonsense origins of product names whenever it is convenient for them. The deore-deer link is just the marketing department jumping on an opportunity.

    benpinnick
    Full Member

    Because that’s the nonsense their marketing people came out with after seeing that English speakers confused the words.

    Deore always had the deer head from when it launched (Not on the mech admittedly).

    *** EDIT *** Its possible they launched it and everyone got so confused almost immediately by the time they printed the 1980 catalogue they’d added the deer head.

    benpinnick
    Full Member

    Said 1980 catalogue for reference:

    Shimano 1980 Parts catalogue

    thols2
    Full Member

    Deore always had the deer head from when it launched

    If it did, it’s not because “deore” means “deer” in Japanese. It’s because the marketing department decided to use the similarity of the spellings. “Deore” is the Japanese transliteration of “d’or”. The transliteration of “deer” would not have an “o” in it, and Japanese people call deer “shika”, not “deore”.

    thols2
    Full Member

    Jagermeister logo.

    Whyte bikes versus Rich Energy logo.

    daveylad
    Free Member

    Despite multiple incorrect sources on the internet, I believe 11 speed is 3.76mm cog spacing & 10 speed is 3.9mm. Interested to find out what linkglide/cues is.

    thols2
    Full Member

    So, Shimano just blatantly ripped off the Jagermeister deer head for their marketing because it had gold palm leaves under it (palme d’or), but used the similarity of “deer” and “deore” to avoid lawsuits?

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Shimano just blatantly ripped off the Jagermeister deer head for their marketing because it had gold palm leaves under it (palme d’or)

    It does look a fair bit like that version of the Jagermeister logo from 20 years after the Shimano use. Less like the contemporary logo…

    Jagermister logo

    There’s some Fred Perry in that original Shimano one. They did seem to be trying to look and sound European. Your gold thing sounds plausible, but Shimano have a different story (and have done for over 40 years). If the gold name was ever a thing, they dropped it straight away… and I can’t find any first hand reference to it.

    I believe 11 speed is 3.76mm cog spacing

    Shimano road cassettes, yes. Shimano MTB cassettes, no.

    thols2
    Full Member

    So, here’s my theory. The Japanese head office called their new product “d’or”, which they wrote in Japanese, then transliterated it into English as “Deore”. They passed it onto the American marketing people with an explanation that it means “gold”, as in “palme d’or”. The Americans knew they couldn’t piss off a major client by telling them that Americans don’t by shit based on French art movies so they hit a bar for a brainstorming session. After finishing off a bottle or several of Jagermeister, someone spotted that the bottle had both gold palm leaves (palme d’or), plus a picture of an animal that sounds like deore. When the Japanese office called up the next day to check on progress, they had nothing to show except a picture of a deer on the label they’d lifted from a bottle of booze. The Japanese office liked it, and so history was made.

    dangeourbrain
    Free Member

    It’s how you write “d’or” in Japanese

    Surely, if you were going to call it d’or you’d call it, you know, d’or, not (instead of using 金) borrow the French d’or translate that the katakana, then bastardise the borrowed French back into (not) English.

    Don’t get me wrong that deore doesn’t mean deer, fine, I get that, but your explanation is not the more plausible one of the two.

    Also starion being stallion sounds awfully like it’s a racist urban myth based around the stereotypical pronunciation of “r” by the Japanese. You might be right but it’s a bit too *snigger snigger* to sit quite right.

    (as an aside, isn’t ィ in your katakana superfluous and making it read deiore? Isn’t it デオーレ? I’ve not done any of this in about 20+ years mind so happy to be wrong)

    chakaping
    Full Member

    Oh deer me.

    thols2
    Full Member

    Shimano have a different story

    The problem with Shimano’s story is that “deore” doesn’t mean “deer” in Japanese, and deer aren’t regarded as anything prestigious in Japan. It’s a transliteration of “d’or”, which is a prestigious foreign expression in Japan. The deer thing was just invented by marketing people, it’s not the origin of the word (because there’s no way a transliteration of “deer” into Japanese would have an “o” in it.)

    dangeourbrain
    Free Member

    Oh deer me.

    Yeah, but if any thread was long overdue a derailleurment it has to be this one.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    The deer thing was just invented by marketing people

    The Deore name was also just invented by marketing people. How they arrived at the name is their story to tell. They could have post rationalised their meaning, for sure, or just be outright lying.

    Still, it least it wasn’t just a fishing name they copied across to cycling and then tried to create a new backstory for. HG ?

    dangeourbrain
    Free Member

    The deer thing was just invented by marketing people,

    You know that’s how all brand names happen don’t you, rather than just ending up with a random SKU.
    It’s not like m6000 actually *means* anything.

    thols2
    Full Member

    Also starion being stallion sounds awfully like it’s a racist urban myth based around the stereotypical pronunciation of “r” by the Japanese. You might be right but it’s a bit too *snigger snigger* to sit quite right.

    Except that it’s right.

    Japanese companies give their products foreign names to make them seem prestigious. Nissan named their sportscar “Fairlady” in Japan based on “My Fair Lady” (it was called the 240Z in English speaking countries). They also had “Bluebird”, “Cedric”, and “Gloria”. The Starion was released in Japan first, intended to be “Stallion”, as in a grown up Colt. “Stalion” and “Starion” would be transcribed into Japanese exactly the same, so when it was back-transcribed for marketing brochures in Japan (to highlight the prestige of an English name), it was called Starion in Japan, which is indistinguishable from “stallion”.

    Then they decided to export it and got asked about what “starion” meant. They came up with a lame excuse that it meant “star orion”. Everyone knew the reality, but it was too embarrassing for Mitsubishi to ever publicly admit.

    dangeourbrain
    Free Member

    Everyone knew the reality,

    Everyone knew the sun orbited the earth for thousands of years.

    Whilst it’s not wrong because it’s received wisdom it doesn’t automatically make it right either.

    See also it’s named for d’or. Everyone knows its really named after deer.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    They came up with a lame excuse that it meant “star orion”.

    Did they? Really…? Nothing to do with Arion?

    dangeourbrain
    Free Member

    Did they? Really…? Nothing to do with Arion?

    No racist trope? I’m out.

    thols2
    Full Member

    The Deore name was also just invented by marketing people.

    Yes. Based on the Japanese transliteration of “d’or”. It’s not a transliteration of “deer”. Japanese people call deer “shika”. “Deore” isn’t understood in Japanese as meaning “deer”, that’s a link that Shimano’s marketing department invented.

    thols2
    Full Member

    No racist trope? I’m out.

    “L” and “r” are minimal pairs in English, not in Japanese. “Stalion” and “Starion” would be transcribed into Japanese exactly the same. If you have to back transcribe it, it would be a very simple mistake to make, just like how many native English speakers misspell English words.

    hightensionline
    Full Member

    What does XT mean. Or DX, LX, or…

    All made up names for made up groupos.

    thols2
    Full Member

    What does XT mean. Or DX, LX, or…

    R7?

    dangeourbrain
    Free Member

    Or DX, LX

    510
    60
    Hth

    hightensionline
    Full Member

    Sorry, I’m not being clear. I know what they are; I’ve still got parts from pretty much all the early 90s mtb groupos (thumbies and all), but the names are just made up, with some form of backronym at most. The only obvious one was XTR, as in XT-Racing or Race.
    But my point is it doesn’t matter either way; I was still sad to see the names disappear nonetheless. Much like if Deore ever fully disappeared, which makes very little sense like the name.

    dangeourbrain
    Free Member

    Sorry, I’m not being clear

    You were. I just wasn’t being helpful. 😉

    hightensionline
    Full Member

    This week has been a long one!

    woodlikesbikes
    Free Member

    Anyway…..
    Has anyone seen the any availability dates for the rear hubs with cartridge bearings.
    Planning to build a new rear wheel and would love a Shimano hub with proper bearings!

    1
    ratherbeintobago
    Full Member

    @hightensionline I’m sure my 11sp XT cranks say Deore on them in small letters so it won’t go anywhere I don’t think.

    dangeourbrain
    Free Member

    Planning to build a new rear wheel and would love a Shimano hub with proper bearings!

    I get people hate the cup and cone but they’re what actually makes the hubs so reliable. If you swap them for cartridges will they actually be any good?

    woodlikesbikes
    Free Member

    Assuming Shimano use standard sized cartridge bearings then yes they will be. Because spares will be readily available.

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    Assuming Shimano use standard sized cartridge bearings then yes they will be. Because spares will be readily available.

    Unlike, of course, standard sized loose bearings.

    What? You don’t inspect them for wear?

    woodlikesbikes
    Free Member

    Not it I don’t have. Why would I spend time every six months stripping a hub, when I can just replace a cartridge bearing at the end of its life. And I can get the bearings in 30 minutes from the bearing shop 2 roads away. Compared to several days ordering loose bearings or cones at a price that isn’t economical.

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