Shimano CUES

Goodbye Deore? Hello Shimano CUES!

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Big news for mid-tier mountain bikes as Shimano CUES enters the chat and kills off Deore (well, Deore 12-speed will remain), Tiagra, Alivio, Sora and other familiar groupsets.

Shimano CUES

No more Deore 9-11 speed. No more… er, any of the existing MTB and road groupsets below SLX and 105 in fact.

The new Shimano CUES marque replaces Deore, Alivio, Acera and Altus on the off-road side of things. And replaces Tiagra, Sora and Claris on the road scene.

1x

No-more trickle-down

The fundamental idea of Shimano CUES is that lower-end groupsets are no longer ‘trickle down’ versions of tech that used to be XTR or Dura-Ace twenty to thirty years ago. CUES stuff is a relative blank slate.

CUES drivetrains are designed first with the everyday and/or beginner rider in mind first and foremost. Qualities such as simplicity, cross-compatibility, and durability are how Shimano are explaining CUES. Not racing, lightweight or innovation.

Multiple CUES

While on the one hand CUES is ostensibly simpler. It isn’t the case that’s it’s all just one all-encompassing CUES drivetrain. There are multiple CUES drivetrains, each with a number series attached eg. Shimano CUES U6000.

There will be 9-speed CUES, 10-speed CUES and 11-speed CUES.

While there will still be front mechs on some CUES drivetrains intended for trekking and road use, for mountain biking, CUES is 1x specific. Chainrings are all narrow-wide retaining designs. Almost all the rear mechs will have clutches in them (the lowest tier CUES U4000 rear mech will just have a much-stronger spring).

MTB = CUES U600

To briefly go into the number series, U8000 is essentially XT for trekking bikes and as such probably won’t be encountered by MTBers. It’s the U6000 CUES stuff that will be the main stuff. If you know you’re Shimano numbers, you can kinda get the vibe that Deore M6000 has been replaced by U600.

RD-U8020

Shimano appear to be being nice (or just realistic) and state that CUES products will work just fine with third party components, provided they are the same speed (9, 10 or 11). This means that bike brands, and members of the public, can spec a non-Shimano cassette in their otherwise CUES-equipped bikes.

Interestingly, during their presentation Shimano explained that their 11-speed stuff was theoretically the most durable of all the speeds they produce. Something to do with having the most surface area interacting between chain and teeth.

Look away 12-speeders

At this point all you 11-speed hold-outs can punch the air and look smug. And all you 12-speeders out there can sigh, roll your eyes and/or curse.

9-speed CUES will offer 11-46T cassettes. 10-speed is 11-48T. 11-speed is 11-50T.

All CUES shifters will actually pull the same amount of cable per actuation; it’s just that the 11-speed shifter will have 11 clicks, the 10 has 10 clicks and the 9 has 9 clicks.

At the cranks there’s not much to report. External cup Hollowtech II bottom brackets remain. With good ol’ square taper bringing up the very lowest CUES tiers.

LG700 cassette

Linkglide

Remember the more-durable Shimano Linkglide drivetrain parts that were announced a couple of years ago? Shimano CUES goes hand-in-hand with Linkglide. Yep, the CUES ‘roadmap’ is why Linkglide wasn’t produced in 12-speed flavour.

If you remember the Linkglide launch you may remember the flak that the LG600 cassette got for being rather portly (780g claimed weight). Shimano have ditched that cassette. The new LG (Linkglide) cassettes are not really any appreciably different to their HG (Hyperglide) siblings.

At this point we think it’s worth pointing out that Linkglide offers the smoothest shifting of ANY Shimano groupset, XTR/Dura Ace including. It also no longer requires the rider to back off the gas during shifts. Just keep the power down and it just… shifts. Linkglide also claims to be significantly stronger and more durable than non-Linkglide components.

Although closely allied to CUES, and definitely relevant, Linkglide stuff will not have the same series numbers as CUES stuff. Linkglide items are all prefixed with LG (LG700, LG400, LG300 and so on). As mentioned, there is currently no Deore-equivalent Linkglide cassette. The LG700 cassette is the nearest (which is essentially SLX-ish level Linkglide).

New hubs!

Tacked on at the end of the CUES presentation was a quick look at some new hubs. The CUES hubs feature various departures from Shimano’s usual way of doing them. Modular axles and freehubs ie. can be converted from QR to bolt-thru, Microspline to Hyperglide freehub).

And… cartridge bearings! Shimano were at pains to point out that they haven’t just relented from their cup-and-cone dogma and slapped cartridge bearings in. The (TC600/500) CUES hubs have labyrinth and contact seals in them to make them better sealed than most cartridge bearing designs. There are also twin double-row bearings in the freehub part of the axle.

Some press release snippets

  • “Featuring our high-durability LINKGLIDE technology, SHIMANO CUES offers smoother shifting, more durable components, and standardizes compatibility across a wide range of categories.”
  • “By consolidating our 9-, 10-, and 11-speed component ranges with interchangeable components, including common derailleur pulleys, cassette sprockets and chains, simplifies mid-tier bikes.”
  • “The lineup features unified sprocket spacing across our 9-, 10-, and 11-speed drivetrains, so that components can be intermixed across a wider range of user groups and riding styles.”
  • “With taller and thicker cassette teeth, providing additional surface area this mitigates the chain from skipping and distributes pedaling forces to prevent premature wear due to shifts from novice riders.”
  • “Extended Component Lifespan – Cassettes and chains built to withstand consistent daily wear and tear of both analog and high-torque e-bike use.”

More info to follow

All-in-all, CUES appears to be great… for anyone using less than 12-speeds on their mountain bike.

We’re still finding out more about CUES (including UK prices and what, if any, cross compatibility with 12-speed stuff there is) and hope to bring you some more info – and real-world photos of the U600 stuff – very shortly.

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Orange Switch 6er. Stif Squatcher. Schwalbe Magic Mary Purple Addix front. Maxxis DHR II 3C MaxxTerra rear. Coil fan. Ebikes are not evil. I have been a writer for nigh on 20 years, a photographer for 25 years and a mountain biker for 30 years. I have written countless magazine and website features and route guides for the UK mountain bike press, most notably for the esteemed and highly regarded Singletrackworld. Although I am a Lancastrian, I freely admit that West Yorkshire is my favourite place to ride. Rarely a week goes by without me riding and exploring the South Pennines.

More posts from Ben

Home Forums Goodbye Deore? Hello Shimano CUES!

Viewing 40 posts - 81 through 120 (of 161 total)
  • Goodbye Deore? Hello Shimano CUES!
  • scotroutes
    Full Member

    @squirrelking A cues Tues ruse?

    That would be news.

    finbar
    Free Member

    @squirrelking @scotroutes very good 😀 ! I need to peruse a dictionary for more ideas or I will have to vamoos(e) from this CUES thread.

    ratherbeintobago
    Full Member

    Cues website is unhelpful – looks like only the U4000 cranks are listed at the moment, which are Octalink, but there’s an external BB listed in the parts list.

    Edit – sorry, talking nonsense, U6000 up as well and these look to be 24mm EBB

    wzzzz
    Free Member

    Well the core MTB groupset, Deore XT has gone back to 11 speed.

    11 speed FTW

    matt_outandabout
    Free Member

    Well the core MTB groupset, Deore XT has gone back to 11 speed.

    11 speed FTW

    Source?

    kelvin
    Full Member

    I believe there are now three variants of XT… one is 12 speed and the others are 11 speed. Not confusing at all.

    kimura54321
    Full Member

    Eurggghhh, not what I had hoped to hear just after ordering a Shimano Sora 9-speed touring bike with a triple! 🙄

    At least I opted for disc brakes this time. I do have some spare hubs, derailleurs and levers just in case though and will likely keep my eye out for any discounted parts.

    Any views on whether the hubs are going to be front 100mm and rear 135mm OLD compatible for the TC500 / QC500 range?

    benpinnick
    Full Member

    XT LG was 11 speed last year, and the year before that, if you could buy it that was. Di2 XT has remained 11 speed throughout.

    So XT is Still HG+ 12 Speed
    XT Di2 is Still HG 11 Speed
    XT Linkglide is now called U8000 11 Speed
    EP8 XT is both 12 and 11 speed.

    And of course there’s whatever updates Shimano brings to XT 12 speed when that is due an update. 13 Speed anyone?

    Simples.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    The “EP8 XT” is also Linkglide in 11spd. I was leaving out the ebike specific groups. If you include them there are 5 XT variants… three of which are di2, two of which are linkglide, three of which are 11 speed, the other two are 12 speed. What could be simpler? 🫣

    LAT
    Full Member

    Not everyone rides full suspension, moreso at the “affordable” end of the market.

    then they can use the front shifting parts that shimano include in most of their group sets.

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    then they can use the front shifting parts that shimano include in most of their group sets.

    Okay, we’ll start form the beginning.

    This is a groupset designed from the ground up for the “affordable” end of the market, in particular touring. Do you know what touring drivetrains even look like? I’ll give you a clue, they’re not the same as 1x full suspension trail centre bikes.

    LAT
    Full Member

    This is a groupset designed from the ground up for the “affordable” end of the market, in particular touring. Do you know what touring drivetrains even look like? I’ll give you a clue, they’re not the same as 1x full suspension trail centre bikes.

    please calm down. you made the comment that not everyone wants a single ring drivetrain in what came across in a dismissive fashion. shimano have not discontinued the production of multi-ring drive trains, especially at the lower ends of their ranges, while single rings have made suspension bikes better.

    as it happens, i have no idea what a touring group set looks like. i don’t tend to see them at trail centres.

    What could be simpler? 🫣

    🤷🏻‍♂️

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    please calm down. you made the comment that not everyone wants a single ring drivetrain in what came across in a dismissive fashion.

    If that’s the way it came across I apologise, I was just pointing out that a budget groupset will be designed around budget bikes. Nothing more.

    Touring setups have multi ring fronts hence the inclusion of such.

    1
    acidchunks
    Full Member

    killed Deore

    LAT
    Full Member

    If that’s the way it came across I apologise, I was just pointing out that a budget groupset will be designed around budget bikes. Nothing more.

    no problem. just so you know, i am familiar with touring group sets. like mtb, but with bar end shifters. i was just being silly

    matt_outandabout
    Free Member

    @acidchunks

    Well I lol’d

    no_eyed_deer
    Free Member

    I really love Shimano model names, they are so memorable and intuitive. For example, I just can’t wait to get hold of an RD-U8020.

    thols2
    Full Member

    I really love Shimano model names, they are so memorable and intuitive.

    Yep. From what I understand, Deore (D’Or, “Gold”) was originally the high-end groupset. Then Shimano introduced Deore XT at the racing level version of Deore, which was eventually topped by XTR. Before long, there was Deore, Deore LX, Deore XT, and XTR. At some point they decided to drop Deore except for the affordable stuff and renamed LX as SLX. It was still easy enough to match model numbers to names though, XTR was 900 level stuff, XT was 800, and so on. Then they started making stuff that seemed to be Deore level, but could have 500 or 600 series numbers. Now they’re back to calling a whole range of stuff CUES, but it could be XT level, it could be Alivio, it could be 8-speed, or 9-speed, or 10-speed. Just utterly confusing.

    Then there’s i-Spec…

    greatbeardedone
    Free Member

    The jockey-wheels on the rear mech look a bit wee.

    I thought that bigger was better?

    The move to cartridge bearings on their hubs looks like a step in the right direction.

    cookeaa
    Full Member

    It’s interesting that people seem to be conflating cable pull and sprocket pitch.

    Nothing they’ve published really discusses what the different cassette spacings will be but I can imagine various reasons why Shimano would either replicate their existing pitches, or simply invent new ones I think we should just see what comes out.

    To be clear they’ve never had common pitch and just lopped a sprocket off or added one, it’s always varied historically and they’ve changed the amount of cable pulled by the shifter proportionately. That even applies now MTB 11 and 12 are just slightly tweaked increments of Dynasis in terms of cable pull.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    To be clear they’ve never had common pitch and just lopped a sprocket off or added one

    MTB HG 10/11 speed.

    ratherbeintobago
    Full Member

    To be clear they’ve never had common pitch and just lopped a sprocket off or added one, it’s always varied historically and they’ve changed the amount of cable pulled by the shifter proportionately

    I thought 6-8 speed was cross compatible (which I am aware is from the dawn of time, but I’ve still got 8sp XT on the Hybrid of Doom)

    cookeaa
    Full Member

    MTB HG 10/11 speed.

    3.95/3.9mm they’re not identical

    1
    chakaping
    Full Member

    Deore (D’Or, “Gold”) was originally the high-end groupset. Then Shimano introduced Deore XT

    Some interesting background here…
    https://www.shimano.com/en/100th/history/products/result.php?id=27

    And here…
    https://www.shimano.com/en/100th/history/products/result.php?id=31

    Deore was originally for touring, then adapted into a second-tier MTB groupset.

    I had Deore 2 on my 1989 Kili Flyer and it was pretty much the same as my pal’s XT, but possibly more durable (or I was just a less smashy rider).

    kelvin
    Full Member

    3.95/3.9mm they’re not identical

    Go and measure 0.05mm.

    🤓

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    Nothing they’ve published really discusses what the different cassette spacings will be but I can imagine various reasons why Shimano would either replicate their existing pitches, or simply invent new ones I think we should just see what comes out.

    It has been, in the NSMB article it specifically says the cassette pitch will be common across all speeds.

    I thought 6-8 speed was cross compatible (which I am aware is from the dawn of time, but I’ve still got 8sp XT on the Hybrid of Doom)

    You’re right, it is. It was only when 9 speed came out that they started messing with the pitch.

    thols2
    Full Member

    @chapaking
    Thanks for the links. Ok, so Deore XT was always the top tier. I did not know that. One thing about those articles though, Deore was not derived from “deer”, that’s a myth. It came from French “d’or”, meaning “gold.” When it’s written in Japanese katakana characters (used for foreign loanwords), it corresponds to deore in the English alphabet.

    crazy-legs
    Full Member

    Deore was originally for touring, then adapted into a second-tier MTB groupset.

    I had Deore 2 on my 1989 Kili Flyer and it was pretty much the same as my pal’s XT, but possibly more durable (or I was just a less smashy rider).

    When I was getting into MTB in the mid-90’s, XT and XTR were already established groupsets – the “R” standing for Race. I remember the new STX coming out which pushed the existing LX up and filled the gap between that and the much lower grade Tourney/Altus stuff on entry level bikes.

    The word “Deore” was kind of loosely attached to STX and LX before LX got pushed over into touring / trekking bikes (and renamed) and SLX came in for MTBs. ANd then in 2000, “Deore” came in as a MTB groupset in its own right.

    I had an SLX groupset on test for Singletrack for a while. That’s probably about as modern as my MTB groupsets ever got! My only MTB now has a mix of old XT and XTR with a Race Face crank! 😳

    Kamakazie
    Full Member

    When can I have a nice 1x 9-42 10spd?

    ratherbeintobago
    Full Member

    Didn’t Canfield Bros or someone make a wide range cassette/hub based on Shimano’s special small wheel stuff (that I now can’t remember the name of, but had a stepped free hub body)

    benpinnick
    Full Member

    Deore was not derived from “deer”, that’s a myth. It came from French “d’or”, meaning “gold.”

    Original Deore actually had a picture of a deer on it, so if Shimano didn’t want people to think it was named after a deer, they did a bad job.

    5lab
    Free Member

    The word “Deore” was kind of loosely attached to STX and LX before LX got pushed over into touring / trekking bikes (and renamed) and SLX came in for MTBs. ANd then in 2000, “Deore” came in as a MTB groupset in its own right.

    the first XT in 1982 was called “deore xt”, and deore as a rear mech (DE10) pre-dated that by a year, so the names been around for 42 years (!)

    https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site/shimano_bicycle_system_components_-_1981_page_34.html

    thols2
    Full Member

    Ok, so Deore came out in 1981, with Deore XT in 1983 and XTR in 1991. The deer thing came later, it wasn’t the origin of the name.

    Capturing the zeitgeist, Shimano packaged the later Deores in a box with the famous ‘Deer Head’ logo – and so this derailleur came to be known as the Deore Deer Head. Note, however, that the instructions mention neither mountain biking nor decapitated ruminant mammals – they unequivocally describe the Deore as ‘perfect for touring’.

    https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site/derailleur_brands_beginning_with_s.html

    thols2
    Full Member

    Original Deore actually had a picture of a deer on it,

    Nope.

    chakaping
    Full Member

    What does the XT bit stand for though?

    kelvin
    Full Member

    XT

    [ original Deore XT M700 rear mech ]

    crazy-legs
    Full Member

    What does the XT bit stand for though?

    Wasn’t it Cross Terrain or something? As in, it could cross all terrain.
    XTR was definitely XT-Race.

    Or maybe it was literally two random letters that sounded good.🤷

    benpinnick
    Full Member

    The 1980 Deore didn’t have the deer head on the mech it would seem, but it was on the marketing blurb / logo.

    TBH though 5 seconds of google and I find its actually stated on Shimano’s own website that it means Deer. Im probably sticking with Deer in which case.

    https://www.shimano.com/en/100th/history/products/result.php?id=27#:~:text=SHIMANO%20DEORE%20was%20introduced%20as,on%20bicycles%20while%20enjoying%20cycling.

    docrobster
    Free Member

    Ah nostalgia, it’s not what it used to be…

    My first mtb had stx-rc bits on it in 1994. 7 speed. I don’t think that groupset hung around too long though.

    thols2
    Full Member

    Except that the Japanese word for “deer” is “shika”, and the Japanese transliteration of “deer” would be “de-re” (with a long vowel), not “deore”. If you based it on pronunciation, it would be “deare” (de-ah-re), there’s no way to transliterate it with the “o” there. If you say “deore” to a Japanese person, they won’t know what you’re talking about unless they’re a cyclist, but “d’or” is borrowed from French.

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