Why are you atheists so angry?

This is the Greatest Living Englishman at his defiant best.

Ah. is not it nice you have a messiah to worship? 🙂

Interesting to note also that McBoo and Woppit are so full of admiration for a man who is a confirmed Marxist and a fayn of Lenin, Trotsky and Che Guevara. 😆

You make me laugh, you really do. Keep it up, it’s very entertaining. 😀

it’s all true

Perhaps if you could all come to a working agreement about what truth is, there could be some common ground?

it challenges the bigotry and assumptions of his listeners, it’s a terrific story.

Tough call, isn’t it.

If I delivered “the story of the good Pakistani” that challenged the bigotries of its audience by saying that, well, we all know Pakistanis generally despise white men but here’s a story of one who doesn’t, so maybe you should think about your prejudices cos maybe they’re not all like that, how well do you reckon that’d be received?

In context, the story is intended to shock, and the moral is that your “neighbour” might not be who you expect. Maybe you’re right, and that is the whole point. Hm.

If god is so powerful that ‘he’ created the heavens and the earth and all the creatures on the earth, why is ‘he’ letting the devil ruin it all? There is no logical or illogical reason to torture the population of the planet for no other reason than an egotistical one.

All religious questions that cannot be answered logically are always answered with a further unprovable solution (why do bad things happen? Oh that’s the devils fault).

If there is a god, I’m pretty damn sure ‘he’s wetting himself at this discussion. ‘He’s certainly not the loving god that most religions portray, ‘he’s there with a lab coat on connecting electrodes to our brains and rubbing lipstick in our eyes.

And lastly, if there is a god I’m being buried with a baseball bat, cos when I’m stood at those pearly gates, I’m going to beat the sh1t out of ‘him’.

Yours sincerely

Angry Atheist.

BTW ta for the Hitchens vid. It reminded me to check whether his books are now on Kindle, and they are so just picked up “God Is Not Great” for about £4! 😆

That’s not at all what I’m saying! You have twisted/misinterpreted me. Apologies if it wasn’t clear or has caused offence…
This is not about judging people, clasifying them as evil and so please don’t mis-represent me on that point.

Sorry theboycopeland, it wasn’t my intention to mis-represent you.
I’ll quote you, not to poke holes, but to explain where I’m coming from.

You said “the Kingdom the earth lives in is ruled by the Devil” that (to me) says that we are all slaves/cohorts of the Devil except the followers of your religion, who are saved?

Can I ask: if the devil rules Earth, why is there not more evilness? Wouldn’t he have all us non-believers doing unspeakable things all the time? If the devil controls them then why do non-believers still manage to do good things and lead good lives?

You also said “We have the opportunity to enter God’s Kingdom through Jesus” – given that the alternative seems to be eternal suffering then it seems (to me) like the kind of “opportunity” that the Mafia offer you to avoid having your shop burnt down. 😀

Perhaps if you could all come to a working agreement about what truth is…

I feel a Jack Nicholson moment coming on 😀

Wouldn’t he have all us non-believers doing unspeakable things all the time?

Ah, that explains my sex life.

GrahamS – you may (but probably may not) be interested to read this

Beyond my level I’m afraid. Religion interests me, but not to the point I want to get to heavy theological scholarship 🙂 I managed “Life Of Pi” though (good book) 🙂

Actually Buddhism is kind of an interesting one since it seems (to me as a layman) that it is an example of a wise man with some wise advice about life, which then takes on more mystical/spiritual/religious meanings, ceremonies and dogma.

As a non-theist this is how I imagine Christ may have been: a clever dude with some good ideas that other people took and added their own spin.

Keep it up, it’s very entertaining.

Yeah – and I’m on for one of the quickest 1000 post threads ever – already overtaken wingeing public sector workers. Keep it up lads (but keep it clean and polite – we don’t want no thread locking round here).

Does anyone have a rational explanation for this?

Excellent debate that has not really descended into farce or name calling. However here is an angry atheist….

The Now Show

I think he down graded to atheist/agnostic ditherer to sell his latest book, but it is a class rant.

The last minute or so also touches on the many of the issues behind the Leverson inquiry, and whether we are responsible/create the culture/world we deserve.

Does anyone have a rational explanation for this?

Yes Jeremy; it’s a light switch.

Buddhism isn’t a religion – it’s a philosophy.
Like single speeding, but with less hair and chanting instead of swearing.

Is it a “Jesus is aroused” “Jesus is not aroused” indication device? Kind of like a wethervane of religious approval?

I struggle with long sentences so apologies if allready posted [NSFW]

Graham – this isn’t meant to sound patronising in any way, but the Living Buddha, Living Christ is a remarkably easy book to read and if you have any Buddhist sympathies, extremely interesting in the argument of the similarities between Buddhism and Christianity. Its also a relatively short one – it is not a scholarly text in style. Thich Naht Han writes in an amazingly peaceful style.

I was tempted to say that he is at peace because he is not an atheist (!) but given that his a Buddhist that would have been ridiculous. So just stopped myself!!

TJ – incredible to think what the reaction would have been if Jesus was replaced by other religious characters.

Anyway, out of all those posting on this thread, how many of you actually listened to all 48 minutes?

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered.

Religion is answers that may never be questioned.

God this debate is so boring 🙁

Thich Naht Han writes in an amazingly peaceful style.

+1 Finally we agree on something

Buddhism isn’t a religion – it’s a philosophy.

Yep, as I said.

It is a set of philosophical ideas from this real thoughtful bloke (Siddhartha Gautama) who himself apparently regarded a belief in God as unhealthy.

But look at the reverence, temples, ceremony and you have to wonder where this will be in 500 years or so.

Living Buddha, Living Christ is a remarkably easy book to read and if you have any Buddhist sympathies

Cheers. Maybe I’ll give it a look one day. I have “sympathies” for all faiths as I do think they often have interesting philosophical things to say, even if I reject the supernatural aspects.

God this debate is so boring

However, it does seem to have turned you to prayer, so “every cloud…” and all that 😉

GrahamS as a dabbler of religion in youth [ and studying bits at Uni] only buddhism has given me things i still use in my daily life – also not a person of faith but much of what it says is very usefull/interesting

Does anyone have a rational explanation for this?

easy, people buy tat 😉

😀

Off to bed. God bless all 😉

Marcus, not all Muslims go around blowing stuff up, stop the lazy generalisation. The non-bombers are not responsible for the others. I’ve heard this before and was very disappointed to hear him come out with this ignorant tripe.

Well done Charlie for both not listening to his point and confirming it at the same time 😀

Morning.

Sorry theboycopeland, it wasn’t my intention to mis-represent you.

Cheers Graham

You said “the Kingdom the earth lives in is ruled by the Devil” that (to me) says that we are all slaves/cohorts of the Devil except the followers of your religion, who are saved?

Not what I was saying – we have free will, not slaves nor the ‘devil’s cohort’ as you suggest. Simply seperated from God, living outside of his Kingdom.

You also said “We have the opportunity to enter God’s Kingdom through Jesus” – given that the alternative seems to be eternal suffering then it seems (to me) like the kind of “opportunity” that the Mafia offer you to avoid having your shop burnt down.

Using your analogy – I would sugget it’s more like the shop keeper saying to the mafia, come spend time with me, I’ll teach you how to build a shop like mine and you can then serve your community in love and be transformed through the process. Being a Christian is about transformation not transaction.

Your stance does raise an important point though about the general perception of the heart of God and Jesus. This notion that God is somehow oppressive and limiting. My experience is the exact opposite. It’s about freedom from oppression and abundance in life.

Ultimately, the emotional/spiritual element to this cannot be conveyed through a philosophical argument no matter how well constructed. It’s clearly an important issue for some and it’s great that we have the freedom to debate it – let’s hope we don’t lose that freedom through any reforms to the press etc.

“Muslims, listen up my bearded and veily friends, calm down, stop blowing things up” – big round of applause.
Etc.

That’s ok is it? You’re a **** idiot.

“Religions and violence go together”
– come one, this isn’t the sixth form

I know you’re probably not an idiot.

The idea that the majority are responsible for the extremists is just a categorisation error. The majority are not related to the extreme in any way. The majority of muslim are no more to blame for extremists militant groups anymore than the rest of us. Are you responsible for the EDL or NF?

Yes i heard it, i assume you did too. Imguess you just think he is right!

Having reread both my posts i see they make the same point, please tell what i haven’t listened to or which point i have confirmed?

Are you responsible for the EDL or NF?

I think we could be held indirectly responsible if we didn’t challenge their attitudes instead of sticking our fingers in our ears and going “na na na nowt to do with us mate, they’re fundamentalists innit.”

If the EDL are making statements about what “the English” want, we non-EDL English should be standing up and going “actually, that’s not what we want at all.” If they’re protesting, we should be protesting back. They’ve not quite got round to sticking a bomb up Nick Griffin’s arse yet (more’s the pity), but if they did would it be ok for us to stand back and give a little gallic shrug about those wacky extremists?

If we don’t speak out against them then what we are there is passive sympathisers, and we’re absolutely responsible. It’s not acceptable to simply go “not my problem” and expect sympathy from the rest of the populace.

In that case it looks like most mainstream muslims have done at least as much as that. But no one is tarring you wth the same brush, they realise that there is great variety englishness and thay the EDL are not as one with the majority, it requires no deep insight to see that that is the same with islam

EDIT: Holds tongue. Tactical withdrawal to calmer waters. Not responding to gormless provocation.

please tell what i haven’t listened to or which point i have confirmed?

Happy to, but please let’s not let this interesting discussion get ruined by raised tempers or name calling. Okay?

The point you didn’t appear to have listened to (in your first post) was you said “not all Muslims go around blowing stuff up, stop the lazy generalisation”, but that was exactly what he said: “I know that most religious folk are moderate and nice and reasonable and wear tidy jumpers and eat cheese like real people”

His point is that yes, there are a few nutters in each faith, and yes the normal moderates distance themselves from the nutters – BUT they do still serve as a powerbase. I think Cougar expands on this rather well.

The point which you confirmed was that each faith will see his rant as an attack specifically on them, ignoring his comments about the other faiths.

Fred, really are a t1t. I almost don’t know why I (or anybody else) bothers to respond to your stupid comments.

He just comes barging onto a thread and starts gobbing off. Is just a little child looking for attention.

Plenty of adults on here. Ignore him.

See: EDIT

theboycopeland: Morning 🙂

Your stance does raise an important point though about the general perception of the heart of God and Jesus. This notion that God is somehow oppressive and limiting. My experience is the exact opposite. It’s about freedom from oppression and abundance in life.

I don’t see your God as particularly “oppressive or limiting” (though some aspects of Christian sects do seem that way to me).

My objection (and I think this might be an objection to your description rather than the religious teaching) is the idea that he offers freedom, abundance, healing but ONLY if you follow and worship him.

I understand you see this as a transformation, but you describe it as a transformation that is only available to those who give themselves to God – which is surely also a transaction? “Follow me and good things happen, don’t and you are doomed to a life without freedom, abundance and healing in a kingdom ruled* by the Devil”

.

(* though not actually ruled. It’s more of a ceremonial position apparently. 😈 )

Hitchens is bang on when he talks about religion being based on “loving that which you fear”. Sorry, no I’m not going to live in fear, I want to have as fullfiling a life as I possibly can and take as many people along as I can.

In that case it looks like most mainstream muslims have done at least as much as that.

Have they? All the soundbites I’ve heard from spokespeople from the Muslim community have pretty much said exactly what you said in your earlier post, distancing themselves from the actions of extremists rather than condemning them. Maybe I’ve just not heard the right media output. (EDIT – this maybe sounds inflammatory, but I meant it sincerely. Maybe I have simply not heard the same things you have.)

I understand that being beardy with a rucksack and a tan doesn’t make you a terrorist of course; but in a climate where people are twitchy, I think perhaps the Muslim community could make more of an effort to be seen to be doing something to root out these criminals and prevent terrorist activities. I think perhaps other people would be less quick to judge and generalise if they did.