Well scotland didnt get independance, thread

Let it go….its not healthy.

May I be the first to post this:

Ah business as usual I see for the middle class, over opinionated morons! Little England will be a happier place again now the muck can continue to fly North of the border.

There is no “victim complex” here, just a country of people fed up of being lied to. It would appear there is a “superior complex” present in some of you spouting your stereotypical anti Scottish statements.

Oh and it’s Scotsman.. Not Scotchman. You may think it makes to look amusing and controversial, in actual fact it makes to look like a complete bellend!

Back to these “handouts” some of you have discussed for Scotland, because we contribute nothing to Westminster… Ever!

I assume none of you spouting the drivel will be heading north to enjoy anything out country has to offer anytime soon. Seeing as how you can’t stand us by the pish being typed on your keyboards.. Excellent! More room for us and more empty hills to ride up around and down.

Back to work now children, would hate to think the country would grind to a halt without your expertise and input.

47% of the UK’s third city want to be in the UK. In total 53% of the big central belt cities want to be in the UK. Despite being far a smaller city, almost as many people in Edinburgh voted No as voted Yes in Glasgow. 16-17yos voted no. I’m not sure it’s quite as you’re suggesting there, Ben.

Everyone has lost, it’s just that the No voters haven’t realised it yet. Soon they’ll find out what a Westminster promise is really worth.

Or maybe they realised what an SNP* promise was going to be worth. I have to admit being slightly disappointed not to see it all unravel as people discovered that Holyrood isn’t really that different to Westminster, that the SNP* couldn’t deliver on their promises and that the financial situation meant that there was no money to deliver on the social changes people seem to have hoped for.

*yes I know there are other parties which could have been voted into power in 2016, but they didn’t have any promises at all and would have the same problem with no spare money.

I think we need to find out why people voted No

If you can’t figure it out from the 3000 pages in the other thread and all your friends, facebook or whatever, then your blinkers really need to come off.

Change is going to come. Just not now.

The No majority was >10% which means >11% for the Yes separatist camp to win. That is a very long way from any sort of mandate. You are clearly as delusional as Salmond.

There is no “victim complex” here, just a country of people fed up of being lied to.

You mean the UK? Btw when I said victim complex, I was talking to dazh not Scotland.

Of course, ironic that people fed up of being lied to would vote for a tissue paper campaign, I wonder how many lies were in that?

because we contribute nothing to Westminster… Ever!

But.. dazh said you had no influence.. which is it?

1981miked – blimey. Have you read the thread?

I can’t see much ‘anti-Scottish’ stuff in there (although one or two maybe are but I thought it was attempted humour), just people talking about why the ‘No’ voters won.

1981miked – please don’t spoil things, ok you’re upset but no need to start a fight.

1981miked – blimey. Have you read the thread?

let him be wwaswas….he’s a bit cross! 😆

It would appear there is a “superior complex” present in some of you spouting your stereotypical anti Scottish statements.

You do realise that one of the reasons we didn’t want you to leave is that we actually quite like you?

And there’s the legacy of it. Cross people on both sides. Divide and conquer!

bu99er, and I’d stocked up on currency as well

I’m actually quite a happy bunny. Thinking our political system is only worthy of contempt, and generally being happy aren’t incompatible really, are they? Its not like its the most important thing in life, is it? That’d be…

Now there’s a sentiment a lot of people would do well to bear in mind. For most people the political system is actually largely irrelevant to their quality of life.

The reason for Salmond doggedly sticking to saying they’d keep the pound is that it was clear the Scottish wouldn’t vote for any option that didn’t involve keeping it.

Sensibly so IMO and to be fair to Westminster, I reckon that anyone who understands even basic economics understands why that would mean Scotland having to leave a fair bit of economic power/control over Scotland in the the UK government’s hand.

I think they could have won it with a more intelligent, articulate campaign. Giving actual answers to genuine questions and concerns rather than just saying “hope over fear” or “you sound like a unionist” or “project fear” or whatever

😆 – you are joking aren’t you? The last thing the Yes side wanted to do was get into a discussion about practicalities.

I think we need to find out why people voted No

Perhaps because they realised that nationalism is seldom a good idea?
See Serb nationalism in 1914, German nationalism 1931-1945, Serb nationalism in the 1990’s and Russian nationalism 2014. All ended badly.

I must admit i gave up telling folk who asked what way i was voting as you invariably got an barage of “facts” thrown at you while being told you are wrong.

2 weekends ago i was working in my garage and a couple of yes canvassers appeared at the door and asked which way i intended to vote , i told them and they proceeded to stand and talk at me , i asked them to leave , still they stood there talking at me . In the end they left when i fired up the grinder and started grinding scrap just to make noise so they would **** off.

Plus I spent six hours in a BBC studio and haven’t had any sleep, so very grumpy

Has anyone else mentioned how foxy Ben was looking on the televised debate last night?
Like Jim Carey in his pomp.
😀

Baltic States nationalism in the late 80s?

You’re comparing the nationalism espoused by Salmond with the rise of National Socialism in 1930’s Germany? 😆

There are all different types of nationalism. English nationalism is always pretty unpleasant. Scottish nationalism (apart from a minority of nutters) seems very benign and pragmatic. Intersting article on it by Billy Bragg the other day

I must admit i gave up telling folk who asked what way i was voting as you invariably got an barage of “facts” thrown at you while being told you are wrong.

It’s not compulsory to tell them the truth – I’m sure if I’d been up there I’d have just been telling such people what they wanted to hear.

You’re comparing the nationalism espoused by Salmond with the rise of National Socialism in 1930’s Germany?

End of thread isn’t it? 😉 I’m not so sure about Scottish nationalism, but he did pick some incredibly poor comparisons – hence my previous reply.

@binners Whatever end of the spectrum it is, it’s always something to be wary of.

EDIT: And I forgot to mention Spanish nationalism.

My huge Yes campaign supporting colleague has been very quiet this morning.

But then I did email him over ten days ago:

“I reckon the poll was an outlier. I still think when it comes to the vote 55:45 to no. IMO there’s a hint of 1992 about the polling responses.” – Monday, 8 September 2014.

Im so annoying when I’m right 😀

What about the British nationalism used by the No campaign?

English nationalism is always pretty unpleasant.

Not sure that’s true – while the EDL are definitely unpleasant, there are also plenty of supporters of English sport that are fine.

My huge Yes campaign supporting colleague

Too many deep fried mars bars? 🙂

Im so annoying when I’m right

FTFY 😉

Get over your victim complex.

No victim complex here, I do alright out of the ‘system’, and I’m probably better off as a result of the no vote. I’m talking more about the fact that the opportunity for achieving real fundamental change through peaceful democratic means is very rare. And when it comes about, as in this case, it is spurned. This is the real victory of the neo-liberals. They have constructed a world where people willingly abdicate responsibility for their own lives in return for something much less that could otherwise be achieved. It’s quite depressing really.

EDIT: And I forgot to mention Spanish nationalism.

Which bit of it? The Basques? The Catalans? The central one state Spanish?

Actually, thinking about it you could well be right 🙂

IMO there’s a hint of 1992 about the polling responses

I did mention that somewhere in the long thread. Speaking of which, I think this is the first time I’ve seen you on one of these threads…

the opportunity for achieving real fundamental change through peaceful democratic means is very rare.

That opportunity is still here. It’s just that now it’s all of us together, instead of just Scots.

They have constructed a world where people willingly abdicate responsibility for their own lives in return for something much less that could otherwise be achieved.

This is a phenomenon that has been well known for millennia – it’s not a neoliberal thing. Generally, when people have food in their bellies and jobs, they are less fussed about who’s in power.

They have constructed a world where people willingly abdicate responsibility for their own lives in return for something much less that could otherwise be achieved. It’s quite depressing really.

A bit OTT, I suspect most of the No voters just thought ‘why take the risk, I’m happy enough as things are’. Scotland is hardly oppressed in any meaningful way.

Anyone have a synopsis of what was promised in terms of powers? Did they say anything remotely specific?

Oh and it’s Scotsman.. Not Scotchman. You may think it makes to look amusing and controversial, in actual fact it makes to look like a complete bellend!

Nope, sorry. I won’t be browbeaten into changing my amusing ways by a small man in a skirt.

Anyone have a synopsis of what was promised in terms of powers?

It’s a consolation prize anyway. A bit like ‘look what you could have won’ in Bullseye.

Molls – despite what they may think, the crowd at Twickenham isn’t really a political movement 😉

That opportunity is still here. It’s just that now it’s all of us together, instead of just Scots.

And you think that will happen? They’re already turning it into an ‘English’ issue, and an opportunity to finally stuff the labour party electorally. There’s going to be much less opportunity than before for changing anything after this.

This is a phenomenon that has been well known for millennia – it’s not a neoliberal thing.

Maybe, but the modern form of this is more extreme and counter-beneficial to the wider populace than ever before. It’s not just political influence people are now willing to sacrifice, but they’re also willing to accept falling wages, poorer pensions, poorer public services, poorer working rights etc through fear of being even more worse off.

but they’re also willing to accept falling wages, poorer pensions, poorer public services, poorer working rights etc through fear of being even more worse off.

Allegedly; there is / was no guarantee that a separate Scotland would be better off and uncertainty about that issue was probably why Yes didn’t win.

they’re also willing to accept falling wages, poorer pensions, poorer public services, poorer working rights etc

But they didn’t, they voted No.

No victim complex here, I do alright out of the ‘system’, and I’m probably better off as a result of the no vote. I’m talking more about the fact that the opportunity for achieving real fundamental change through peaceful democratic means is very rare. And when it comes about, as in this case, it is spurned. This is the real victory of the neo-liberals. They have constructed a world where people willingly abdicate responsibility for their own lives in return for something much less that could otherwise be achieved. It’s quite depressing really.

I can sympathise and identify with these thoughts, but I also hope some of the “no” voters identify themselves as British and hope to achieve real change for their whole country.

The last thing the Yes side wanted to do was get into a discussion about practicalities.

Actually I think it’s the last thing the “no” side wanted, at a strategic level. To start planning for a “yes” result would have added traction and legitimacy to the “yes” campaign.

That would have been my take on it anyway.

For most people the political system is actually largely irrelevant to their quality of life.

Tell that to the victims of the current govt’s austerity drive.

I think we need to find out why people voted No

You make it sound like a witch hunt – repeatedly asking the same question until you get the answer you want (in a potentially agressive manner) isn’t really democracy, thats bullying. The majority choose No, gracously accept it otherwise you’re going to sound like a TJ thread – “no, no, no, you’re all wrong and I’m right”