Training and diet talk…

Sounds like we need iDave, Ton. Because your diet seems remarkably 4-2-1 which iDave thinks is old hat.

Also the French Olympic team don’t use 4, 2, 1 and haven’t done for a long time.

Still, keep reading the magazines.

By the way, one of the top ranked UCI world tour teams didn’t have much pasta or muesli on show at their training camp – job opp there for you.

You do know that you can’t complete an ironman fueled just by carbs don’t you? And that taking carbs too close to the start will limit fat burning during?

I didn’t answer his questions but will now:

I’m sure I could complete an Ironman just on carbs but it was easier and faster with mainly carbs and a bit of protein and fat. I’ve completed four with a best of 59th at Embrun which was the hardest at the time in terms of climbing. I thoroughly enjoyed a ham sandwich on the way down the Isoard.

I had a big bowl of müesli an hour before the start as I thought it better to follow my normal eating habits as closely as possible rather than eat at 3:00. I consider myself a lousy swimmer but swam in 1:02 so if my breakfast hampered my fat burning on the swim it didn’t show in the time or the way I felt.

edit, and I didn’t get the 4-2-1 Frech Olympic diet from a magazine, I have an original copy given to me by the nutritionist at Lindt.

‘ve consistently talked about “endurance athletes” and any STWer wishing to eat heathily because as far as I’m concerned 4-2-1 in a mediterranean context is fine for both.

I thought the mediterranean diet has ~30% calories for fat, which is twice the fat of a 4-2-1 diet?

😉

I feel hnoured, Phil. That’s the first time anyone has gone to the trouble of doing me a personalised pic on the Net. 8)

you should be honored, the wily wonker meme has been bugging me for a while now because its never used in the context of a chocolate factory.

maybe people haven’t done personalised pics for you because you’re quite trigger happy in posting topless photos of yourself 😛 dont worry, yeti went through that stage, as did molly. if the time-tested pattern holds true in 4 months you’ll be telling people all about the iDiet and castigating them for eating bread, either that or eating cheesecake and challenging women to races 😀

There are lots of mediterranean diets, Ian. Most don’t fix the proportions of carbs, proteins and fats but you are right to say they’re often higher than 15%. If you want a reference then the université de Lyon did a study on high risk heart patients in the mid nineties that got a lot of TV coverage in France (l’Etude de Lyon).

Plenty of fruit, olive oil, cereals and wine (in moderation) are common factors to the various mediterrranean diets. Fish is soemtimes but not always a significant source of protein, snails with miraculous properties are sometimes included.

Edukator – you confuse the term fuel with nutrition. There are energy stores in the body, some glycogen, some fat. You won’t be finishing an Ironman without fat being burned as fuel whether you choose to eat fat or not during it. Your impressive ironman performances (and I mean that) will have required significant contribution of fat to the fuel used.

Also there seems to be some confusion about fuel in that somehow we either burn fat or we burn glucose. We do both most of the time. Training in certain nutritional states allow us to manipulate this to our advantage depending on the duration of the event we’re training for.

My reference to dunning-kruger relates to your inability to consider that you may be incorrect. I’ve changed my view on best practice in sports nutrition several times in the 24 years that it’s been my job.

A few other points, the iDave diet isn’t low carb and high fat. It’s low GI carb. My sportive breakfast wasn’t high fat and low carb either. It was an omelet with a tin of broad beans in it and a few slices of chorizo. It was certainly low GI, but now low carb.

My main issue with your stance is that I believe that ‘generous’ quantities of refined carbs are detrimental to health and performance. I’m not against high GI carbs before, during and after ‘some’ types of training and events. But certainly against them as part of our daily diet.

Finally there is recent evidence that a high GI breakfast inhibits brain function…..

yeti went through that stage

I’m still waiting for someone to ask me to post another…

lazybike – Member
Thanks for that, what sort of stuff are you eating on your days off, is it straight down the chip shop! or just some toast with breakfast, pasta with lunch etc

pizza is my weakness, so i had that yesterday.

I have never used the term “refined carbs”. “Generous” quanties of carbs yes: 4-2-1. Where I’ve refered to bread type speciafically it’s been “whole grain” – low GI (though I don’t only eat whole grain). Spaghetti is low GI – on a par with many vegetables. Müesli is a mix of grains, nuts and dried fruit, I probably add enough banana to tip it into medium GI but certainly not high GI.

My breakfast is not high Gi by any objective measure, it just includes bread and müesli. Every other day it also includes cheese/Black Forest cured ham/olive oil.

So far today:

Breakfast: tea, wholemeal bread dunked in olive oil, goat’s cheese, a banana, cod liver oil.

Mid morning: coffee, 70% chocolate.

Lunch: spaghetti, a slice of ham, a glass of orange juice.

It’s nice out, I’m off for a run.

I’m still waiting for someone to ask me to post another…

Like the actual Yeti, you are renowned for your camera shyness.

Like the actual Yeti, you are renowned for your hideous monsterlike features

dont post a photo yeti, come on a ride instead and i can stroke your belly then

breakfast: museli- oatflakes, wheatflakes, mixed nuts & dried fruit plus wholemeal bread with acacia honey.

mid morning: black coffee /no sugar

lunch: mixed rice and beans, broccoli, chicken, olives, tomato with fresh basil and parsley.

I’ve already been for a run, it was nice outside.

Kev

I’m off for a run.

No you’re not.

I was talking to Jo about coming down to your manor Phil…

Dave and Solo opened my eyes to it, but a very long time reading about the primal plan has concreted my future hopefully.

Similar for me here.
🙂

And…. I’ve yet to find good, hard, independant data indicating that bread is good for me, us, the French…. Anyone.

So I’ve been thinking about getting into running because road biking can get boring. Are a decent pair of shoes required, any recommendations? How long should I go for a “first run” to avoid getting shin splints or whatever?

Solo – but bread is soooo good. Especially French bread with Presidente butter on it. IS there any real evidence that it’s bad for us?

Tom… Get some proper shoes and start slowly… I like Asics personally.

Was gonna put in some diet and exercise chat but got distracted by the just giving link feauring picture of Yeti’s bird. So, what about posting some pictures of her diddies for us Yeti and in exchange I’ll talk dirty to you about sweat and carbs and all sorts.

Donate some money and I’ll think about it…

_tom_ – Member
So I’ve been thinking about getting into running because road biking can get boring. Are a decent pair of shoes required, any recommendations? How long should I go for a “first run” to avoid getting shin splints or whatever?

google ‘couch to 5k’ for some advice. If you like running go to a proper shop and get fitted for some trainers which suit your gait.

Tom,

all good advice, try on lots of trainers and choose the ones that are comfy for you, (don’t worry about barefoot or whatever) start slow and short runs and build up slowly.

Tom,

Get the trainers that look the fastest, red usually, and then just hammer out a 15mile run. If you can still walk the next day, then you have cracked it.

…however, if you feel a lot of pain, then you probably have also cracked it.*

*in a stress fracture stylee.

TSY.

Milk aside 😉 …

Bread contains phytate.
Studies into its effect in nutrient absorption seem to indicate that phytate hinders nutrient absorption.

The results strongly suggest that the inhibitory effect of
bran on iron absorption is due to its content of phytate
and other inositol phosphates present after fermenta
tion, rather than to its content of fiber or other constitu
ents. Thus, effective fermentation will increase the bioavailability
of iron in whole-meal bread. J. Nutr. 122:
442-449, 1992.

Bread also contains lectins.
Lectins are found in a lot of foods, but appear to be more concentrated in bread.

So, if you care, which you don’t as you are relying on a real time demonstration of the nietzsche approach to eating.
Go research what lectins do to us.

And as for gluten, well.
Theres loads on that, about the inturdnet.
If you’re interested.

All I’ve go to say is thank goodness for the mediterainian diet, eh ?.
Goodness only knows how we, as a race, survived without it.
For the preceeding 2.5 million years…..
You know, before the French olympic team landed on planet earth.

It’s okay Solo… I donate blood the other day and they said my iron levels were Awesome 🙂

Tell me about lectin and gluten 🙂

Thanks for the running advice, especially you Jamie 🙂 I think I’ll give the couch to 5k thing a go. Can I still road bike on “off days” or will that not give me enough recovery?

Tell me about lectin and gluten

snore 🙄

It’s just food…trying to make food into stuff that’s bad and stuff that’s good is a waste of time I think.

@Tom

/serious mode

Don’t worry to much at the start about what shoes your wearing. Start slow. Don’t be afraid to walk. If you can, run off road on fields, bridleways etc, as its a) more enjoyable and b) easier on your joints….well assuming you don’t snap your ankle in a rabbit hole 😉

Loads of flat bridleways about 5 minutes away so off road should be do-able and probably more interesting than biking on them.

Loads of flat bridleways about 5 minutes away so off road should be do-able and probably more interesting than biking on them.

You’re in the same boat as me, if I remember right. Soon you will have sold the MTB and just run and take the road bike out when it’s sunny 8)

TSY.

You don’t need me to tell you anything.

You eat what you like, you move about at a ridiculous intensity and maintain a very lean physique, which appears to please you.
But as you are, you can’t attribute your BF percentage to anything as you claim not to know what you’re doing.
Well, besides when you claim that you’ve read x,y,z somewhere…..

Just carry on.

I just can’t be doing with twits who promote eating stuff which is so obviously not that good for us.
Its almost wreckless.
Theres nothing good that you get from bread.
That you can’t get more of, from others sources.

Don’t get me wrong.
I like the taste of bread.
But that doesn’t make it a good thing.
I tend to try to make the distinction now, between what foods the body appears to tolerate, and what it will actualy thank you for eating.
That may seem like a subtle difference, but one I feel is worth making note of.
in my humble opinion.

You’re in the same boat as me, if I remember right. Soon you will have sold the MTB and just run and take the road bike out when it’s sunny

Yeah I’m in Northamptonshire, no exciting off road here. I save the mtb for days off where I take it down to Woburn to ride if I can be arsed to drive. Road bike gets used every day at the minute.

Solo – would you consider that home-made bread, or indeed perhaps less common/artisan ones, to be in the same category as the mass-produced ones?

I enjoy learning about science. Should I stop doing it? I am just terribly curious about how it all works.

Educator I slagged you off because you acted like a complete tit, rubbishing someone else’s considerable experience based on your own much lesser experience. Even if you don’t believe him the grown up thing to do is just say that you are sceptical and leave it there. Or better still, try and learn what you can from a different point of view. You don’t appear to be very good at learning since you think the icier is high in meat and bad for your guts, when it’s been said a thousand times that it’s high in veg and legumes and as such is great for your guts.

And you also ignore those folk who follow your diet and aren’t at a racing weight.

In other news, 23m09 for 5k last night, disappointed as I felt good at first but my knees ended up hurting still 🙁

Solo – would you consider that home-made bread, or indeed perhaps less common/artisan ones, to be in the same category as the mass-produced ones?

I was just out the door, but as its you.
🙂

I’ve just risen to the bait spouted by types who promote bread as essential in a healthy diet.
Whatever one of those is.

Furthermore, personal experience has convinced me that all I get from eating bread regularly, is heavier.

But, I’m obviously aware that there are those for whom eating bread appears not to have any obvioulsy detrimental effect.

If you are one of those people, then carry on enjoying your bread, for the taste of bread.
If you enjoy baking it, even better as at least you’re having some positive me time in the kitchen, and you get to control exactly what goes into your home baked loaf.

So, is home baked bread any better for you ?, well that depends on your point of view.

But on the basis of supporting a nutrient rich diet.
I’d say its not needed.

just eaten a proper ‘illness in later life’ meal…
beef burgandy, off the primal plan recipe list, with cauliflower rice, sugar snaps and green beans.

i now feel terrible…….. 😀

I had lovely fresh green beans, petit pois and roast chicken. My poor bowels!

Thank you Solo although you need to try harder to convince me not to. 😉 I consider it a staple of my diet although eaten in a very small quantity and it has to be Warburton’s!

I am however very much aware that bread ain’t what it used to be and such huge quantities I ate as a child. Production methods change as does the grain itself and my stomach doesn’t really thank me for it either. 🙁

So it’s being reduced to alternate days but, really, you don’t surely think I would make my own bread? 😯 Did I mention I have bikes to ride. 😆

Seriously, always enjoy your input so thanks. 8)

On Friday last week i started iDave diet 0.5 as a little experiment. I’m not fat, and have never been – my BMI is bang in the middle of ‘normal’ (i’m 6’1″). Until recently i was able to eat whatever i liked and it didn’t appear on my body anywhere. But i’ve noticed over the last couple of years that if i eat too much crap without enough exercise it starts to show. So, i figure it is time to alter what i eat.

As lots of people have commented – much to iDave’s frustration – breakfast is perhaps the meal it is hardest to change. It is purely phycological, of course, borne out of habit. But when i was an undergrad i’d eat all kind of non-breakfasty breakfasts (cake and jelly was a particular highlight). Anyway, like Edukator i’m a big fan of muesli for breakfast and it is quick to make, so i decided to keep that in the diet but replace other meals with low insulinemic stuff (hence iDD 0.5). I figured it would be alright as i’m only looking to control my weight, not lose it.

Last friday morning i weighed myself on some of those scales which send an electrical pulse through your body and then it guesses your body fat, muscle mass, hydration level and bone mass. My vitals were:

Weight – 75.5kg
BF% – 18.9

Seven days later:

Weight – 73.2 (2.3kg)
BF% – 17.5 (-1.4)

In terms of exercise i did an hour on my turbo trainer (Sufferfest, The Hunted), and some light weights. Not bad i reckon.