Scotland Indyref 2

Aracer – yep

They’ve got a pretty good case, they were told vote yes (to the UK) to stay in the EU, now they find they’ve been duped….

they were told vote yes (to the UK) to stay in the EU,

I don’t remember that being on the ballot paper and everyone knew the Brexit vote was coming. Personally, one of the reasons I voted no in the indyref was I didn’t see the point of swapping Westminster rule for Brussels rule.

everyone knew the Brexit vote was coming.

You might want to check your timelines

Do the Scots think that the EU would want them??

Do the Scots think that the EU would want them??

They already have them, so staying in the EU is just maintaining the status quo…..

Here we go again. Fresh from their crusade against brown people, fellow Europeans trying to make a better life for themselves and those that pray a bit funny, the bigots attention can now return to the Scottish people. It’s nearly been a whole 2 years, let’s get that xenophobia for your other neighbors back on display.

Suspect there’s less appetite than you might think for another indyref even within the SNP – it’s an expensive and exhausting business.

That said if they explore all the other options on the table (e.g reverse greenland, etc) and come up with nothing then they’re not really doing their job properly if they don’t do their utmost to keep Scotland in the EU.

ninfan – Member

Scottish Government: “Can we have another referendum?”

UK Government: “No, **** off, you’ve already had one”

End of thread.

given they don’t have a majority in our goverment they would have to get holyrood’s approval first which I’m doubtful they would.

it also raises interesting questions if Scotland can effectively ignore the referendum result which the EU leaders appear to consider to be binding on the rest of us.

Sorry didnt Scotland just vote to stay in the EU?

Whatever we say its a complicated issue

the real problem is it could become a massive constitutional crises if Holyrood has a vote and it says leave the UK and the EU accepts

Its hard to see a set of circumstances where we have a civil war with Scotland or we turn it into a new Northern Ireland – ignore the will of the people and impose it with superior military force-

None if us have a clue but i will be very surprised if they dont petition for a ne vote, pretty surprised if Westminster agrees, Not That surprised if they ignore it and then after than I have no idea what happens but it won’t be anything like, some of, the simplistic scribbles on here[ not aimed at aracer]

“They already have them, so staying in the EU is just maintaining the status quo…..”

Not really, they joined as part of the UK not as an independent country.

If England and Wales secede from the United Kingdom that would work.

aracer – Member

It seems lots of people in Scotland want another referendum – I agree, it’s just that I’d like a vote too, and the question I want asking again has nothing to do with the Union between England and Scotland.

😆 so you’re willing to drag us down with you too out of spite.

good luck with that.

Judging by the front page of today’s Daily Record and the tone of the articles in The Scotsman and The Herald I think we might see much more pro-independence rhetoric from the mainstream media this time around.

given they don’t have a majority in our goverment they would have to get holyrood’s approval first which I’m doubtful they would.

You do realise the greens are pro independence?

I want to be Scottish, I want to be British, I want to be European. That’s why I voted No in the the Independence Referendum.
It now appears that I can only have two out of three.
The game has changed.
I am still Scottish. If offered the choice between being British and being European I will reconsider my options. In a year’s time I will have had time to consider all the arguments rationally. Today I’m thinking with my heart and would vote for Independence in Europe.

This quite closely echoes the way I feel just now, however I don’t wish the timescale to be too hasty. I would like to see how post brexit UK and EU pan out, as both have now started a process that will have big changes.

I personally would wait until close to the next general election 3-4 years.

km79 – Member
Here we go again. Fresh from their crusade against brown people, fellow Europeans trying to make a better life for themselves and those that pray a bit funny, the bigots attention can now return to the Scottish people. It’s nearly been a whole 2 years, let’s get that xenophobia for your other neighbors back on display.

This says it all 🙂

Suspect there’s less appetite than you might think for another indyref even within the SNP – it’s an expensive and exhausting business.

I’ll be supporting it financially. I don’t see why the Scottish should suffer just because England and Wales have chosen to turn the UK into a backwater failed state, all in the name of racism concern about immigration.

If athgray is considering independence, we must be in with a chance! 😆

If England and Wales secede from the United Kingdom that would work.

Good Idea – We can leave Scotland with all the debt.

Just spotted this.

Could this be the bargaining chip NI and Scotland use for leaving the UK?

ninfan – Member
If England and Wales secede from the United Kingdom that would work.
Good Idea – We can leave Scotland with all the debt.

quite a staggering turnaround from your previous position! 😆

good luck with that.

Meanwhile an English friend sent me this

Poll for North of England to join Scotland

I thought it was a joke but 22,000 have voted and it’s at 70%. Can’t see it really happening though.

nobeer, CONSIDERING being the operative word.I passionately wanted to be in both, and argued my belief that similar consensus and was felt on most issues across the UK. I appear to have been wrong. My early feelings are that so many people have let the UK and Europe down badly, leaving me feeling a bit stupid. If the vote went the way it did but Scotlands vote was closer, then I may have said “our views on the EU were not too disimilar, however almost 2/3rds of Scots voting for the EU is quite overwhelming.

We are lucky in a way in Scotland to have a political outlet for this route. I feel sorry for the younger generation in England and Wales who also resoundingly voted for the EU, as they have largly grown up in a world with looser borders and greater movement of people, and do not jave to hanker after the 50’s when Britain was so much better.

A couple of elderly gentlemen on the news yesterday summed it up. One was a teary eyed Southerner in his 80’s with few years left just glad to get his country back before he dies. The other was from the North of England who was glad as the French and Germans hate us anyway.

ninfan – Member

If England and Wales secede from the United Kingdom that would work.

Good Idea – We can leave Scotland with all the debt.
I’ll take that if you can get out of here by christmas

That’s kind of an old link, epi – kind of ironic now if you look at the referendum map as it’s the North of England who dragged us out – I’m fairly sure if the border was set there you’d have voted Leave and South of that line might have even voted Remain.

quite a staggering turnaround from your previous position

Dont be daft his position is to argue against whatever someone writes; he does not have any principle beyond that – even his RW persons is to be contrary

athgray, you should be aware, you aren’t going to get the 3/4 years you want to see how it all plays out, if this goes ahead the scottish question needs to be sorted before the leave date. Leaving the EU then re-entering isn’t really an option.

I feel sorry for the younger generation in England and Wales who also resoundingly voted for the EU, as they have largly grown up in a world with looser borders and greater movement of people, and do not jave to hanker after the 50’s when Britain was so much better.

I feel sorry for them also. I can only imagine it must be so alien and bewildering. However if there is something good that comes out of this perhaps it will be the realisation that opportunities to vote should not be wasted. I read earlier that if the under 25s turned out and voted in the same numbers as the over 60s then the overall result would have been remain.

Hard lesson, but I hope for their own futures it has been learnt.

Meanwhile an English friend sent me this

Poll for North of England to join Scotland

I thought it was a joke but 22,000 have voted and it’s at 70%. Can’t see it really happening though.
A bit odd given the North of England just voted to leave the EU.

London declaring independence and/or join Scotland… Now that’s would work. 🙂

seosamh.
Why not? It surely can’t be beyond the wit of the EU to deal with Brexit and then look at Scotland re-entry shortly after.

I just can’t see why we have to decide in an indyref2 before Brexit happens.

I was reading tonight that Angela Merkl is worried about a domino effect where other nations may look to leave.

For stability of scotland it’s a bit crazy you’re talking a 5-6 years of pissing about.

You don’t – it’s just that joseph is hoping you can continue our current membership so as to maintain more favourable terms. It’s a bit tail wagging the dog though to expect everything to be put on hold so that can happen.

I was reading tonight that Angela Merkl is worried about a domino effect where other nations may look to leave.

I’m sure all European leaders are – it’s just that Merkel has a different attitude towards dealing with it – one which I think is likely to work rather better than the bullying others seem to think is required.

aracer – Member
athgray » I just can’t see why we have to decide in an indyref2 before Brexit happens.
You don’t – it’s just that joseph is hoping you can continue our current membership so as to maintain more favourable terms. It’s a bit tail wagging the dog though to expect everything to be put on hold so that can happen.

i expect a general election so it can be decided there, same time as the people of england and wales decide a whole raft of question concerning brexit.

merkel was the most chilled about it today tbh.

She says she wishes it to be dealt with cordially, but I did read she was worried about effects elsewhere. I can’t remember where I read it.

aye, that’s been mooted as a concern for a while. tbh I can only really see it happpening if the equivalents of ukip won an election. I doubt after the british example too many will be keen to call a referendum.. france is probably the biggest one to look out for there.

I have a close friend from Holland. I know there is a fair bit of dissatisfaction there.

Wilders is leading the polls there, and says he’ll hold a referendum if he wins.

not saying there isn’t, but it’s a different thing to win a general election over a whole raft of issues than to win a single issue referendum. It’s not a simple as uk out and the cards fall.

If it is going to collapse though, it’ll happen sooner rather than later imo, so no need for a protracted waiting period.