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  • Scotland Indyref 2
  • molgrips
    Free Member

    The budget is interesting reading. I feel that whatever Scotland does can put some pressure on Wales to follow in some way. I think both countries currently want to position themselves away from the Tories and separate themselves a bit from England. Down here, there is probably an element of self justification as well.

    dovebiker
    Full Member

    The things you won’t read about in the “Scottish” media:

    I called for a doctor’s appointment for persistent ear ache – got an appointment the next day and an apology from the doctor that I wasn’t seen the same day. Last time I had this problem down south 5 years ago due to an infection I was initially fobbed-off with having to go for a private ear wax removal procedure and had to wait over a week to see a nurse, who identified a chronic infection requiring anti-biotics. No prescription charge for the painkillers and ear drops at the pharmacy either.

    Friend had a cancer check yesterday after a melanoma removal earlier this year. Doc identified some suspicious lumps and has appointment for a further scan/biopsy next month. Wife’s friend in Hampshire has been waiting 18 months for a scan.

    For these things people are happy to pay more tax.

    argee
    Full Member

    It’s not really apples for apples with the NHS across the UK, i’ve family in Scotland who have had nightmares with doctors and hospitals, same as bad experiences myself with the NHS, but the wife’s family in the next county over had a much better experience for the same thing, it’s more postcode lottery than country lottery unfortunately, personally i’m more concerned with the push towards timings for appointments making private more beneficial than ever, and it’s not improving.

    Again, the budget is much ado about nothing, it’ll cause arguments from all sides as always, i do think that the SNP MSPs do need some better orators though, they’ve lost a lot of their best in front of the camera, and the FM isn’t the greatest at it either, he’s certainly no Sturgeon in front of the press.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Yes the NHS is pretty variable. My parents (in England) had a nightmare the other day in one Hospital,  and their other hospital in a different trust called them and took care of them. We don’t even know how the second hospital even knew anything was wrong.

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    It’s Catch 22 for any Scottish Government.
    Raise taxes to increase spending on essential services and they get pelters for “forcing the wealthy to leave”. Don’t raise taxes and get crucified for not using all the devolved powers available.

    Still, at least the current lot are spending all the money allocated back to them by Westminster and not just handing some of it back again because they couldn’t think what to do with it.

    towzer
    Full Member

    I’m afraid I thought it was spineless and depressingly unimaginative, they went straight for the easy targets (paye), I’d be more accepting if they done something about ‘other’ income methods (self employed, company director etc etc etc ) as well and actually had a go at already existing ‘wealth’.

    gordimhor
    Full Member

    So long as the Scottish budget is linked to the lowering òr raising of public expenditure in England Scotland will never really be in charge of its own budget.

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    I’d be more accepting if they done something about ‘other’ income methods (self employed, company director etc etc etc ) as well and actually had a go at already existing ‘wealth’.

    I’m not sure ScotGov has the powers you’d need – certainly not within the quite narrow confines of Income Tax variation. Some sort of Land Tax might be possible though and we’ve already had promises (long since dropped) of Council Tax reform. 

    spooky211
    Free Member

    Wouldnt say the NHS is much better up here tbh. My mum fell out the front window (she has Alzheimers and was trying to get out to see her pal while my dad was upstairs). Badly swollen ankle, went to the docs 2-days later who promptly told her and my dad to go to A&E, 8hrs later saw a consultant who told her it was just a bad sprain and sent them back home. A week later the swelling is still there, back to A&E, xray after a further 6hrs waiting and she has a broken tib and fib. Absolutely sh*te. Understand the pressures these docs and nurses are under but that is seriously poor.

    poly
    Free Member

    I’m afraid I thought it was spineless and depressingly unimaginative, they went straight for the easy targets (paye), I’d be more accepting if they done something about ‘other’ income methods (self employed, company director etc etc etc ) as well and actually had a go at already existing ‘wealth’.

    it’s not just PAYE – it’s income tax thresholds, they apply to all earnings, whether employed, self employed, dividends, overseas income etc.  It’s the only tool they have.  BUT whilst they can set the % and threshold they don’t define the rules – so eg the well off can divert more of their income to to a pension which ensures they have a wealthier retirement, and the gov gets less money.

    a brave holyrood gov would actually introduce a level between the 21 and 42% levels for the not that bad off (say a 30% level on everything over 35K) but that would be as popular as a fart in a space suit.  Their current policy of never increasing the threshold for 42% whilst earnings are increasing at about 7% pa is a “clever move”  that means people inflate themselves into become higher rate tax payers – but it’s quite a culture shock when they do, and the motivation for overtime/bonuses/promotions is diluted when basically half the extra you never see.  

    i suspect they get away with it because most people don’t understand income tax!

    jamiemcf
    Full Member

    I’m pretty sure Martin Lewis explained on the last leg a few weeks back that lag in rates rising but increase in wages leads to a drop in living standards. Fiscal drag. I’d never really thought of it. So I partially get income tax.

    kimbers
    Full Member

    SNP +4

    bearGrease
    Full Member

    SNP +4

    Just don’t lend her any money.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Shall we say the language used was frank and forthright?

    BruceWee
    Full Member

    Why don’t we get more credit for not being as shit at communication as them?

    That’s like me saying, ‘Why don’t I get more credit for my maths skills when I’m clearly less shit than a daffodil?’

    irc
    Full Member

    The Fraser of Allander Inst had what I thoight was a good suggestion for Scottish tax rates. Revenue neutrl and would get rid of the anomaly  where you pay 52% income ax and NI between £43 and £50k.

    Up to £12,570 0%0%
    £12,571 – £14,732 19%
    £14,733 – £25,688 21%
    £25,689 – £50,270 23%
    £50,270 – £125,140 43%
    Over £125,140 47%

    “This reform would smooth out the distortion in marginal tax rates for earnings between £43,663 – £50,270 and bring in, on average, an additional £15 million of tax revenue for the Scottish government each year and £77 million over the 5-year forecasting window.”

    Scotland’s Budget Report Preview #2: Potential reforms to income tax in Scotland

    In my case they would get somewhere around an extra £1k in tax because I would happily pay 23% rather than making a pension contribution to avoid 42%.

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    Shall we say the language used was frank and forthright?

    It was the will of the people I hear.

    bearGrease
    Full Member

    The things you won’t read about in the “Scottish” media:

    Being told by the Scottish Ambulance Service that they couldn’t help my son who’d just broken his collar bone at Unit 23. We drove for 1h15m to pick him up and take him to hospital. I’m so glad the SNP p!ssed my taxes away. 

    intheborders
    Free Member

    Being told by the Scottish Ambulance Service that they couldn’t help my son who’d just broken his collar bone at Unit 23. We drove for 1h15m to pick him up and take him to hospital. I’m so glad the SNP p!ssed my taxes away. 

    It’s a collarbone, most of us make our own way there – why didn’t he just get a taxi if it was such a big deal?

    And remember your taxes are high because Sunak has made them high – all the Scottish Govt can do is play around the edges.

    The UK has the highest taxes since the early 50’s, consequence of 14 years of Tory Govts – remember that when you go to vote.

    somafunk
    Full Member

    Being told by the Scottish Ambulance Service that they couldn’t help my son who’d just broken his collar bone at Unit 23. We drove for 1h15m to pick him up and take him to hospital.

    I imagine they have folk who are suitably qualified in first aid that can cope with the situation.

    highlandman
    Free Member

    Last time I formally treated a cyclist with a collarbone fracture at an event, a large teenager, I simply asked his mother to take him to the nearby A&E rather than unnecessarily tying up a crew & vehicle.  An otherwise healthy teenager with a ?#collarbone will be so far back in the Q for an ambulance that the best outcome for the patient is for family to convey to A&E.  It’s not a medical emergency, sorry to say @bearGrease.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    I’m so glad the SNP p!ssed my taxes away.

    On paying NHS staff more so avoiding the strikes that has crippled NHS  England.  On mitigating the worst effects of tory benefit cuts to keep children out of poverty, on boosting public transport, on a whole raft of measures to reduce poverty and ill health, on stoipping predatory parking fees at NHS hospitals, on keeping older folk at home rather than in homes, on creating fair benefit assessments done inhouse ratyher than a privitised service intended to block folk from getting benefits

    They have been far from perfect but they have genuinely made an effort to reduce poverty and its associated health effects and on protecting public services.  Attack them for mistakes made by all means. 

    I wouldn’t even think of calling an ambulance for a collar bone.  I didn’t when a guy from my hockey team broke his 40 years ago.  I didn’t when I broke mine 45 years ago

    bearGrease
    Full Member

    I imagine they have folk who are suitably qualified in first aid that can cope with the situation.

    You imagine wrong. I guess you’ve never been to Unit then, they want nothing to do with any injuries.

    It’s a collarbone, most of us make our own way there – why didn’t he just get a taxi if it was such a big deal?

    Cos he was a 14 year old boy a long way from home in a lot of pain. Get a grip.

    Humza Useless has fubarred the Scottish NHS the same way the SNP has fubarred Scottish state education.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Highlandman is a professional with real expertise.  Even pre devolution a collar bone injury would be low priority

    You imagine wrong. I guess you’ve never been to Unit then, they want nothing to do with any injuries.

    Well you should take that up with them then.  they should have first aiders on site IMO

    The Scottish NHS is performing better than the English NHS simply because of better governance

    BruceWee
    Full Member

    Humza Useless has fubarred the Scottish NHS the same way the SNP has fubarred Scottish state education.

    You reckon if it had happened in England an ambulance would have whisked the lad straight to A&E?

    tjagain
    Full Member

    The quickest way to get him treated would have been by taxi.  Instead you made him wait while you drove there?  Why?

    This is nothing to do with the Scots government – you would NEVER have got an emergency ambulance for this.

    These are the categories for ambulance triage

    Purple: Our most critically ill patients. This is where a patient is identified as having a 10% or more chance of having a cardiac arrest. The actual cardiac arrest rate across this category is approximately 53%.

    Red: Our next most serious category where a patient is identified as having a likelihood of cardiac arrest between 1% and 9.9%, or having a need for resuscitation interventions such as airway management above 2%. Currently the cardiac arrest rate in this category is approximately 1.5%.

    Amber: where a patient is likely to need diagnosis and transport to hospital or specialist care The cardiac arrest rates for all of these codes is less than 0.5%

    Yellow: a patient who has a need for care but has a very low likelihood of requiring life-saving interventions. For example, patients who have tripped or fallen but not sustained any serious injury.

    Green: a patient does not fit the above categories and there is potential for an alternative care pathway, rather than needing to go to hospital.

    P

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    You imagine wrong. I guess you’ve never been to Unit then, they want nothing to do with any injuries.

    I wouldn’t say that, what I would say is they have nothing in the way of decent first aid training. I caught my front wheel and swan dived onto my head and they didn’t really know what to do when I reported in and told them I couldn’t remember why I was there.

    This is definitely a Unit problem and not necessarily an ambulance problem. I’ve had to deal with worse (kidney stones) and still been driven in.

    Yes, the NHS is in a shit state but this was pre-Yousaf (please don’t tell me you’re on that **** Facebook group, the guy running it has Dick Tice as a **** fantasty)

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Its gonna be great fun after the next Holyrood election when the likelihood is that we will have a tory / labour coaltion in charge.  Thats gonna make for real good governance 🙂

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    You think? I think the true believers will still hold on.

    My local incumbent isn’t going anywhere, his competitors are Katy Clark (was **** useless as a Labour MP) and potentially Todd Ferguson, a Millport tory councillor. Plus a.n. other Lib who nobody has heard of.

    I think if the Tory List MSP was in another party he’d walk it.

    BruceWee
    Full Member

    Its gonna be great fun after the next Holyrood election when the likelihood is that we will have a tory / labour coaltion in charge.  Thats gonna make for real good governance 🙂

    I’m looking forward to telling them to give up their obsession with unionism and focus on the day job instead.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    You think? I think the true believers will still hold on.

    Yes – if the current polling is anything like reflected in the next holyrood election SNP / Green will be short of a majority by around 10- 15 seats.  No one else will work with them.  Labour and lib dems together will be even shorter off a majority so the only way to have anything like a  majority is a labour / tory coalition possibly including lib dems

    Its the way the arithmetic works and labour have been practicing for it with their coalitions with the tories in multiple councils.  check Edinburgh council to see how it will work.  labour are pretending there is no deal with the tories but they gave them important posts to support the “minority” labour council and rely on tory votes to get anything thru. 

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    That’s council politics, I seriously doubt it’s going to happen this time if Westminster have anything to say about it (but when did Slab idiots ever consider that)? Also realised you were on about MSP’s which is an even deeper barrel to scrape. Labour hopeful is soundbite by numbers, lots of words but **** knows what she’s actually touting. Can see Jamie Green making the move to MP at some point but not now, reckon he’s too clever for that.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Look at the numbers!

    snp 64

    tory31

    labour 22

    Lib dem 4

    Now I expect SNP to lose around 15 seats and the tories 5 – 10 with all those going labour.  so that would give roughlySNP 50

    tory 25

    labour 42

    Lib dem 4

    Green 8

    try to find any way of having anything like a majority without lab our and tory working together given that labour, tory. lib dem will not work with the SNP

    I think its almost certain.the only alternative is an SNP / labour coaltion or SNP / tory coalition

    You read it here first – next holyrood government will be labour / tory coaltion possibly disguised as they have done on Edinbugh council or overt and formal as they have done on other councils

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    Calm down.

    1) SNP have been a minority government in the past.

    2) Labour & Tories going into a public coalition is never going to happen. Ever. Regardless of anything else neither head office will stand for those optics.

    All I see is a parliament that can do **** all without growing the **** up.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    The minority governments were only a vote or two short of a majority and had either overt or tacit support from the greens

    The numbers come out like that  and a minority government will not be possible for the SNP.  Labour lib dem and tory would vote them down

    All I see is a parliament that can do **** all without growing the **** up.

    Fat chance of that from Scottish labour and I very much doubt it from the tories tho the first SNP minority government did have some stuff passed with Tory support rather than green as they did have an adult in charge – Annabel Goldie.  No one of her calibre in there now.

    We can only wait and see and I am sure yo will remind me of this later but given the way Scottish labour, tories and Lib Dems behave I stick to my predictions.  they will block any chance of an SNP / Green minority government and will work with the tories instead leading to a labour / tory coalition

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    Still sure it won’t happen. It’s a complete stalemate.

    gordimhor
    Full Member

    There was an unoficial pact between the snp and tories from 2007-11. Not sure that could be successful this year as times have changed and the current leaders of both parties seem less skilled than Salmond and Goldie were.

    j4mie
    Free Member

    Just keep having ejections until we get a sensible result.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    I’m not sure it was a pact as such but certainly there was some horse trading between the SNP and the Tories to get stuff thru.  Similar with the greens in that parliament.  thats how PR parliaments such as Holyrood normally work – coalitions either formal to get partners places in government ( which did not happen in this case) or informal around certain issues as happened in this case with tradeoffs.  You vote for the finance bill and we will include your pet schemes.  I cannot remember what it was the tories wanted included as a cost for voting or abstaining

    The thing is that labour and lib dems have refused to do this just acting as wrecking agents since and the tories have joined them.  Labour could have had significant influence but instead just swat on the side benches sulking

    If the numbers come out as I suggest and the SNP remain the largest party but well short of a majority and labour, lib dems and tories continue to refuse to work with them then the choices are as Squirrelking says stalemate or as I suggest a labour / tory coaltion then I do not think the electorate will forgive labour for their continual wrecking efforts

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