Scotland Indyref 2

Lets be honest there isn’t going to be a indy ref in the short term and even a positive vote would take a while for the details to go through, so the level of pound now is irrelevant as it could be anything in the next 2-4 years. But a weak pound now doesn’t necessarily hurt all Scotland, manufacturers should be taking advantage.

More than you will when you’re independent from the country which controls the levers for the currency you use (I’m assuming the plan is still to use the pound, any other option appears significantly worse), you’re dealing with post-brexit austerity, you don’t have the oil revenues the economic case was based on last time, you don’t have money heading north to make up for the lack of oil money* AND you have trade barriers between you and by far your biggest trading partner. I suppose the latter wouldn’t necessarily be the case if iS didn’t rejoin the EU (or manage to be the continuing state), but keeping Scotland in the EU appears to be the whole justification for a second referendum (if you assume it’s not just political posturing).

* I’m fully expecting TJ to rightly point out that Scotland has been sending money south for most of the past 40 years, but that’s kind of irrelevant to the deficit you have right now and for the foreseeable future.

I note that I’m very grateful for the oil money Scotland has sent us, and totally happy to send money north now – it’s well worth it because we both benefit from being together.

I’m assuming the plan is still to use the pound,

In which case it falls over at the start – some plan?!? McBaldrick to the rescue

But latest dream idea is even worse – possibly (to stop someone wetting himself) the euro 😯 Does wee nippy really think that Scots are that stupid!?!

Ducks, given that its been three days since Jambas was on here, what was the point of the shin-grazer?

But latest dream idea is even worse – possibly (to stop someone wetting himself) the euro Does wee nippy really think that Scots are that stupid!?!

Scots are Brits with deep fat friers. So, yes. Obviously.

Quite – which is why I’m assuming the pound even with all the obvious pitfalls -which nobody will care about because FREEDOM. The only other obvious options are either a totally independent currency which seems to have all sorts of other very difficult hurdles or a currency tied to something else (the US dollar?) Not really surprising that it’s a question nobody wants to answer.

You have to wear tartan-tinded specs to still argue for the £. Ruled out for good reasons last time by BoE, and all main parties. Its a non-starter.

There is only one option – an independent currency with all that implies. The reason no one mentions it (although Stilglitz is now converted to the obvious) is that it would be worse than the current situation. Blindingly obvious to all but the narcissist and her merry band.

She has to keep it under wraps as her case for independence falls flat from the outset

A currency union was ruled out – I can’t see any way to stop them using the pound if they want to, though with no control over the levers.

well thats just daft – its meant to be about “independence” and faking control, sorry taking control.

I’m fully expecting TJ to rightly point out that Scotland has been sending money south for most of the past 40 years, but that’s kind of irrelevant to the deficit you have right now and for the foreseeable future.
I note that I’m very grateful for the oil money Scotland has sent us, and totally happy to send money north now – it’s well worth it because we both benefit from being together.

I guess it depends not how long a view one is prepared to take. 300 years later and the Union still isn’t working for many.

Given we were told during all the years of excess that independence wasn’t financially feasible and knowing what we now know, it’s hard not to come to the conclusion that Scots have been serially lied to. Has something happened to change that?

I’m just being pragmatic – it appears in the short term to be the best option despite all the drawbacks. Well I suppose the best option would be a currency union, along with some sort of political union, but with control over most things retained in Scotland…

In much that same way that the best option for Brexit is to negotiate membership of the single market in a similar way to Norway.

Pragmatism/common sense = status quo (remember close to a federal state already), it does not mean stupidity and desperation. Unless you are simply in it for yourself….

Well I suppose the best option would be a currency union, along with some sort of political union, but with control over most things retained in Scotland…

Federalism? It is favoured by many though I’m not 100% convinced it’s a stable long-term option given the disparity in size of the participants. Commonly, defence (sic) would be a shared issue. I can see issues with that.

aracer
More than you will when you’re independent from the country which controls the levers for the currency you use…

I thought we were equals in all of this, at least until any proposed split – it in together & all that jazz, or is that just the austerity bit? So, to confirm – is it the ENGLISH pound we currently use & do we not have the right to use it, post any theoretical split if we see fit? If we did, would RUK deliberately scupper the currency (haven’t they already though?) just to devalue assets held in Sterling by those uppity Jocks?

you don’t have the oil revenues the economic case was based on last time

Well, we’d still have 100% of the revenue to worry about, instead of the 30% we currently receive.

you don’t have money heading north to make up for the lack of oil money…

True, but…

Scotland has been sending money south for most of the past 40 years

That^

AND you have trade barriers between you and by far your biggest trading partner.

Ok, you got me – we’ll continue to send the whisky*, irn-bru, deep fried chocolate bars, shortbread & Broons annuals down south & you guys keep sending up the good old English tea & scones, vats of coronation chicken, bunting, morris dancers and the juicy Westminster scandals we all love reading about & we’ll all carry on with a stiff upper lip and forget that the EU will be doing the exact same thing to the UK post article 50 triggerment (we’ll make up our own language as well)…

It’s a toughie…

*the revenue from which has always been listed under UK exports, as opposed to featuring on the tartan tax return, hasn’t it?

You can use chocolate buttons if you like.

They key is to chose something that is compatible with the independence that some claim they need/want.

We are, and at the moment Scottish interests have some influence on control of the pound.

So, to confirm – is it the ENGLISH pound we currently use & do we not have the right to use it, post any theoretical split if we see fit? If we did, would RUK deliberately scupper the currency (haven’t they already though?) just to devalue assets held in Sterling by those uppity Jocks?

It’s the pound controlled by the Bank of England who hold the reserves (as we all know, Scottish pounds aren’t legal tender 😉 ). As I’ve suggested Scotland is free to continue using the pound after independence, but with no control over the levers – what is ruled out is a currency union. Of course rUK wouldn’t deliberately scupper the pound, but they might do things which aren’t in Scotland’s interests, and more importantly Scotland wouldn’t actually have proper independent control of its economy.

Well, we’d still have 100% of the revenue to worry about, instead of the 30% we currently receive.

You currently get 100% of the revenue and then some extra money.

True, but…
Scotland has been sending money south for most of the past 40 years
That^

Which is completely irrelevant when considering the current effect of the deficit – that’s been and gone.

Ok, you got me – we’ll continue to send the whisky*, irn-bru, deep fried chocolate bars, shortbread & Broons annuals down south…

You can take the piss if you like, but rUK is still not only Scotland’s biggest export market, it’s the majority of Scotland’s export market.

You can take the piss if you like, but rUK is still not only Scotland’s biggest export market, it’s the majority of Scotland’s export market.

Cheers, so where will rUK get all these things from post split instead – US & Australia?

Let them have their “Freeeeeeddddooommmmmmmmmmm…….!!!”

Then maybe we can drop the archaic concept of changing the bloody clocks in a few days time & plunging the country into darkness for the next 6 months!!!!…

👿

mrlebowski – Member
Let them have their “Freeeeeeddddooommmmmmmmmmm…….!!!”

Then maybe we can drop the archaic concept of changing the bloody clocks in a few days time & plunging the country into darkness for the next 6 months!!!!…

Yep, how dare we – those uppity Jocks again…

Yep, how dare we – those uppity Jocks again…

5 million holding more than 55 million to ransom sound fair to you?

I know it’s highly unlikely that the UK will ever stop this outdated practice of changing the clocks to make everybody more miserable……but it still boils my p1ss!

Ducks, given that its been three days since Jambas was on here, what was the point of the shin-grazer?

If it appeals to your sense of order I will post it on the EU thread,where it was meant to go….

mrlebowski
5 million holding more than 55 million to ransom sound fair to you?

I know it’s highly unlikely that the UK will ever stop this outdated practice of changing the clocks to make everybody more miserable……but it still boils my p1ss!

Seems fair from deepest darkest Glasgow – that’s the trade off we get in return for all the money* & shortbread we send down to Westminster innit 😉

*Scottish £1 notes, just to annoy everyone – every time a Scottish person heads south, Nicola Sturgeon personally gives them a dozen just to piss English shopkeepers off & tells ’em to shout loudly about “legal tender” if questioned about their authenticity… 😆

NO doubt the economic argument for independence is not strong right now. As for that 15 billion – its less than that ‘cos of accounting nonsense but no doubt a Scotland independent now would have some tough times ahead with horrible deficits. Most folk who back independence understand that. Long term an independent Scotland looks a much better prospect economically and don’t forget – because Scotland economy is so small it would not take a huge number of companies expanding or relocating to Scotland to make a serious difference.

One thing that would make a difference potentially is the outcome of the negotiations. things like the £ and the reserve functions of the bank of england – Scotland owns 9% of that. rUK plays hardball then iScotland takes non of the debt. Without the debt the deficit looks much more manageable.

The whole thing is a bloody stupid mess. The obvious answer is a properly federal UK with a functioning democracy within the EU.

*bangs head on wall*

It would be ironic for wee nippy to have to implement the required anti-austerity measures required to put an iS on a stable footing. It might be worth just to watch that except that unlike her, I base my analysis on what is best for the Scottish people. 😉

Who knows? Maybe we’ll get less of them, maybe production of some will move a few miles south, but to imagine independence would have no effect on trade is naive.

Margins would be nailed for starters

Scottish £1 notes, just to annoy everyone – every time a Scottish person heads south, Nicola Sturgeon personally gives them a dozen just to piss English shopkeepers off & tells ’em to shout loudly about “legal tender” if questioned about their authenticity…

They aren’t

Are Scottish & Northern Ireland banknotes “legal tender”?
In short ‘No’ these banknotes are not “legal tender”; furthermore, Bank of England banknotes are only legal tender in England and Wales.

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknotes/Pages/about/faqs.aspx

A petition to call for a referendum to vote Scotland out of the UK.

I’ve signed 😀

Don’t tempt me…

no doubt a Scotland independent now would have some tough times ahead with horrible deficits. Most folk who back independence understand that

Really? Because the SNP were telling everyone they would be £1100 per person better off before the last referendum.

Long term an independent Scotland looks a much better prospect economically

Why?

and don’t forget – because Scotland economy is so small it would not take a huge number of companies expanding or relocating to Scotland to make a serious difference.

Or leaving and your deeper in the red.

Really -Yes.

Why – control on the levers of the economy, oil ( they are not making any more) and a well educated workforce with plentiful green energy. If Denmark and Holland can be prosperous countries then why not Scotland?

Or leaving indeed

bencooper – Member

A petition to call for a referendum to vote Scotland out of the UK.

I’ve signed

If you look at the map, it’s almost all people from Scotland thats signed! 😆

Why – control on the levers of the economy, oil ( they are not making any more) and a well educated workforce with plentiful green energy. If Denmark and Holland can be prosperous countries then why not Scotland?

Fingers crossed for you there’s some joined up thinking going on…..otherwise you’re on a wing & a prayer with the rest of us….

Really -Yes.

Why – control on the levers of the economy, oil ( they are not making any more) and a well educated workforce with plentiful green energy. If Denmark and Holland can be prosperous countries then why not Scotland?

Or leaving indeed
Oil is a declining asset, the stuff we have is getting too expensive to dril for as its so deep and it isn’t of an especially good quality either. It’ll go back up in price but never to the levels it was at and its days as a fuel source are numbered, ironically due to people like the SNP chasing green policies.

I’d almost like to get independence just to see the lefty green **** that voted for it get all het up and start crying as the SNP approve fracking to attempt to claw back some of the horrendous deficit we’d have.

Also, educated workforce, well that was true, now, thanks to the Nats policies of absolutely **** up the schools and even having them literally fall down, the output from them isn’t especially stunning anymore. A lot of them can’t even read.

Controlling the levers in a helicopter with no rotor blades isn’t going to help the bloody thing climb into the sky.

Nats. **** idiots. Away and paint your face with some woad and watch Braveheart again, the rest of us are busy.

If you look at the map, it’s almost all people from Scotland thats signed!

Gerrymandering your own petition

I assume it’s part of the PITA strategy

@deev that school was built under a labour government, to standards overseen by a labour council

you make it sound like it was one school in one area. Im a Tory anyway so can’t stand Labour or the Nats. Still, at least Labour have ideals beyond arbitrary lines on maps.

Nats. **** idiots. Away and paint your face with some woad and watch Braveheart again, the rest of us are busy.

That the best you can do? Fairly refutes TJ’s post about an educated workforce right there. Do you have any other examples of PPP schools falling down or are you too “busy” with the huge impact the Tories are having on Scottish politics? Almost as popular as the Thatcher era, you are on the march!

The schools falling down is nowt to do with the SNP

Ok, you got me – we’ll continue to send the whisky*, irn-bru, deep fried chocolate bars, shortbread & Broons annuals down south & you guys keep sending up the good old English tea & scones, vats of coronation chicken, bunting, morris dancers and the juicy Westminster scandals we all love reading about & we’ll all carry on with a stiff upper lip and forget that the EU will be doing the exact same thing to the UK post article 50 triggerment (we’ll make up our own language as well)…

It’s a toughie…

*the revenue from which has always been listed under UK exports, as opposed to featuring on the tartan tax return, hasn’t it?

Ah, the return of the whisky tax myth…

Grievance-mongering 101[/url]

mrlebowski – Member
Let them have their “Freeeeeeddddooommmmmmmmmmm…….!!!”

Actually that’s what it’s all about.

Freedom. We’ve been wanting it for long before Braveheart came out and gave us a parody of Wallace.

Please explain your opposition to freedom? You North Korean?

I think Brexit has shown that it is a popular concept in England too…