Scotland Indyref 2

So was I until I saw how they voted in the EU referendum…

Most of the economic policy affecting Scotland is still reserved to Westminster thm.

I think I may have said this already on the thread but there are some issues going on that many folk forget
1) 30% of SNP voters voted for out of the EU
2) significant % ( around 20% I think) of SNP voters voted NO in the last independence referendum ( perhaps because of the EU position?)

Sturgeon has to reconcile these conundrums and find some answers to them to get a yes vote. I do not know what the answers are.

The last vote:

32 local authorities in Scotland

Only 4 voted yes (one only just)

The strongest support was Dundee with 57.3% of the vote (below the level where most of us believe such debates should be decided)

28 voted no

10 of the 28 were above 60% No

15 had stronger voting patterns than Dundee’s yes

Democratic deficits/concentrated political power – interesting questions indeed….

Note the strength of the Shetland and Orkney vote and then consider their argument that others might be taking them out of a union that they voted even more strongly for than Scots voting for the EU.

Most of the economic policy affecting Scotland is still reserved to Westminster thm.

Be that as it may, your guys are now arguing for transferring even greater powers to Frankfurt, sorry Brussels. I wish you would make you mind up what you want – otherwise it look horribly like anti-………. 😉

@ On the contrary Thm it looks like your asking us to address economic problems knowing full well that Westminster hasn’t given us the tools

Not true and I have proved this with links to independent sources. You have plenty of tools but only choose to use some of the well. But you know the old saying about bad workmen…

“More cake please….”

The Holyrood government has always had control over much of public spending in Scotland. From next spring, it will have control over taxes, including most of income tax, which raises 40 per cent of the revenues required to cover devolved spending. From 2019, half of the VAT raised there will also be assigned. Half of Scottish spending will then be paid for by taxes devolved or assigned to Scotland. That is a remarkable change. Scotland will have far more control than now over its tax affairs and over the size of its budget….

…Analysts from the Scottish Parliament Information Centre concluded that the fiscal changes set out in the Smith Commission would mean Holyrood was one of the most economically powerful devolved parliaments in the world, compared to federal systems like Germany and Switzerland

Old Mother Hubbard went to her cupboard

Again, if the last vote was so strong, it should be able to hold up to another. (Which it will in the short term) On that very principle, I don’t really understand resistance to offering scotland another referendum, immediately.

You’d think calling the bluff and saying, ok, have a referedum, but we’re not going through 2 years again. 6 months, there you go crack on with it.

Imagine “imposing” a referendum on Nicola now!!! The reaction would be priceless Joe!

As amusing as the bluff would be, I think we have had enough of ill-informed debate for quite some time.

I have not been a great fan of May historically but I do admire the fact that she is getting on with making best of a bad lot. If only Nicola would do the same and stop the smoke screening. Scotland deserves better.

On that very principle, I don’t really understand resistance to offering scotland another referendum, immediately

Ah, principles…

On the principle that we were all told that the last vote was to be a once in a generation, parhaps once in a lifetime, vote, by both former and current SNP leaders, I don’t really understand resistance to refusing Scotland another referendum anytime within the next twenty five years.

ninfan, shoosh. You’re like a spambot with the once in a generation stuff. Plus that attitude does nothing but give credence to the overload patter.

btw longer you leave it, more chance it has of winning.

Perhaps ninfan forgot that it (like many things) was a lie?

teamhurtmore – Member
Perhaps ninfan forgot that it (like many things) was a lie?

Think a lie is a bit strong. An emotional reaction in the aftermath of a fairly crushing defeat. To hold someone to something they said at that point, forever, is utterly ridiculous.

When did the DO make the claim?

More or less the next day was it not? anyhow, regardless, i’m not getting into it, it’s irrelevant. Point stands, you give it again now, and win it, or you give it in 15 year time and you will lose it.

don’t really understand resistance to offering scotland another referendum, immediately.

We gave you a legally binding once in a lifetime referendum (AS’s own words) with 2 years to make your case. This is not golf, there are no Mulligans.

Scotland has more than enough tools to singificantly impact Economic policy, you put up stamp
duty and you decided against a 50% tax rate as it would be counterproductive.

jambalaya – Member

We gave you

That’s a good look. keep it up… 😕

you give it again now, and win it, or you give it in 15 year time and you will lose it.

We don’t give it now – Scotland remains in UK
We don’t give it in 15 years – Scotland remains in the UK
etc

UK politicians won’t say this but I will. There will never be another Referendum

good thing you’re an absolute **** nobody on an internet forum with zero influence on anything

Yup its a good look – we the Government of the whole of the UK. As you know I am not interested in political correctness. Its time for the SNP to shut up and get on with using the develoved powers they where given. Personally I think Cameron bottled it by offering more powers, they weren’t necessary to win. No other PM will have the bravery of Cameron to offer another vote

More or less the next day was it not?

No it wasn’t, but don’t worry Joe these debates would die immediate if you guys stuck to the truth 😉

anyhow, regardless, i’m not getting into it, it’s irrelevant.

Which bit the result or the lie??

Boarding lets look at my track record here, 4.5 years and on the winning side if every major political discussion to date

In the coming years we can check back on whether Scotland becomes independent. I’m
going for never

I think I smell shite. Yes I definitely smell shite.

Boarding lets look at my track record here, 4.5 years and on the winning side if every major political discussion to date

‘kin ell, I never realised that you were Alex Salmond in disguise Jambas!?!

Km – soap, water and deodorant may help

Once in a lifetime would be fine if EVERY promise made during the campaign had been kept and if there was no significant change in circumstances like the EU referendum

We were told “vote no to stay in the EU” “Vote no and get meaningful extra powers in holyrood amounting to home rule” etc etc.

Jamba “devolved powers they were given” how patronising is that.

the really sad bit is you actually think you’re on the “winning” side

Once in a lifetime would be fine if EVERY promise made during the campaign had been kept and if there was no significant change in circumstances like the EU referendum

We were told “vote no to stay in the EU” Vote no and get meaningful extra powers in holyrood amounting to home rule” etc etc.

Is this thread a variation on the R4 game only this time you have to slip at least one lie into every post. For a change, could we make it slip something true in, instead?

I’m beginning to wonder if all this political stuff that TJ claims to read has anything other than pictures in it?

BoardinBob – Member
jambalaya » Boarding lets look at my track record here, 4.5 years and on the winning side if every major political discussion to date
the really sad bit is you actually think you’re on the “winning” side

yip.

Is this the same Jamba who decided that in the event of a yes vote England would just keep 90% of the oil…despite international law? Or the one who LIED denied ever mentioning anything about the savings spelled out on the Brexit bus? Aye; he is always right!

Lots of examples on this. For example crossrail. Paid for with UK money ie scotland pays for part of it

When you claimed that yesterday I assumed you were claiming something different – because I’ve previously corrected you on it, and checking back you acknowledged my correction. It’s not true, Scotland didn’t pay for Crossrail.

It is aracer. for the purposes of working out the Barnet grant crossrail funding is considered UK strategic funding so is not included in spending for the purposes of Barnett. But its paid for out of UK funds – so Scotland pays 9% of crossrail but does not get the cost of crossrail included in the Barnett grant.

However A9 dualling is not considered UK strategic spending so that is totally paid for out of Scotlands budget.

the previous disagreement was about considering Scotland actually paid twice – and we agreed to differ as iut depends on how you look at it.

Thm I also posted a link to an independent source Reform Scotland who disagrees with your argument. Yet according to you I like everyone else who disagrees with you am a liar.(edit)

Of course not aracer, but dont forget where posttruth politics were born

And you seem to missing the point of this thread – its a humorous attempt to recycle old mis-truths (Joe doesnt like the word lie) that were falsified back in 2014, to see if they can be slipped past the next generation now. As above its as appalling as it amusing, but always interested to see who want to match Gove for telling the biggest and most consistent porkies. There is a clear leader so far although Jambas is coming up strongly on the far right side,

edit: my bad

for the purposes of working out the Barnet grant crossrail funding is considered UK strategic funding so is not included in spending for the purposes of Barnett

No it isn’t, and yes it is.

Did it get changed then? Certainly was like that originally

aracer, Im confused now. Are we playing the post lies or post truth rules? Its hard to tell. I think we have just misunderstood the game all along

If it did get changed, that happened before we last discussed it – it’s an easy Google, I’m finding stuff from 2007 about Scotland getting Barnett funding due to Crossrail

thm, wee question, given your arguments are largely based on the financial unsustainability of Scotland, at the moment. If Scotland was in surplus in 15 years time and out performing the UK, would you then support independence?