Scotland Indyref 2

You claimed there was a British culture. But you cant say what it is

You are telling me i am something

I’m telling you you’re British from a legal and technical standpoint. Now, you’ve said you don’t FEEL British, which is fine, I’m just interested in why.

You claimed there was a British culture. But you cant say what it is

Not without preparing and writing a lengthy essay, no – and I don’t have time for that. If you’re looking for a one-liner then I don’t think any definition of that sort is worth much.

I have told you. Scotland is my home. Its as simple as that. There is no such thing as legally British. I have a uk passport

The tartan and shortbread Scottishness or as a pal of mine calls it ” that Victorian crap”

@tj I agree with your friend, although I do have a kilt which I like. 😁

Maybe if we were all ‘European’, this tribal bhollyx would disappear?

molgrips is a bit of a british fascist, int he. 😆 Yer british whether ye like it or not. 😆 aye nae borr.

Tj:

Oh moley

Im an edinbugger not a soapdodger

I’m surprised you’re not a Leither. Leith didn’t become part of Edinburgh until 1920. It’s identity is quite distinct from the rest of the city.

Yes @tjagain

I live in Scotland as mentioned in this thread and a few others.

Born in England, mum’s Scottish and I have relatives all over.

I’m british. Not terribly proud of how we’ve acted over the last few years but still british.

Ts Duncan. My memory is shit. No judgement. Its just interesting to see.who in this debate lives in Scotland.

If you feel british thats ok by me

Its something to consider in the debate. Those who think like you. National identity is complex on these islands

I have no affinity to britain.

You have no affinity to the nation you live in? Yet yearn to be part of the European Union?

Side note: Gotta love how Scots can be patriotic, but if you live in Englandshire and try to be patriotic, you’re labelled a Xenophobe. Just saying

Feels like a bit of an unpleasant ganging-up going on in here.

You have no affinity to the nation you live in? Yet yearn to be part of the European Union?

Side note: Gotta love how Scots can be patriotic, but if you live in Englandshire and try to be patriotic, you’re labelled a Xenophobe. Just saying

It’s quite possible to see the benefits of iScotland without being ‘patriotic’, whatever that means.

For me it’s very simple: the people of England don’t vote the way I (and the majority of Scotland) vote. As such, I feel the interests of Scotland would be better served if Scotland’s government were to be independent. That’s it. There’s no racism, and racism certainly isn’t something I hear being bandied about as part of iScotland discussions (the way it often was as an unpleasant undertone in Brexit discussions).

In fact, most people I know who voted ‘No’ in 2014 did so precisely because they didn’t want to leave the EU – and the government of the time was pushing this kind of thing:

This, for me, pretty much epitomises the potential benefit of an iScotland. If Scotland had had it’s own say, we’d still be in the EU – because the votes of 5.5 million people wouldn’t be drowned out by the votes of 55 million people south of the border.

I live in Scotland. Its my country and my home.

Kenneth. Its just an inability to understand from some on here which is why i try to explain .

Also of course there are some who feel insulted that we want to choose our own path and that path is different to the right wing xenophobic path england has chosen. I mean how dare we?🤣

Ill try an analogy

You live in suburbia in a semi detached house. You get on ok with the neighbors and both of you are in the neighborhood watch. You rub along well enough

Your neighbor starts drinking too much and starts to behave erratically blaming everyone around him for his troubles

You try to help and support him but it falls on deaf ears and his behaviour becomes harder and harder to deal with.

At some point you have to withdraw from the neighbourhood watch as his paranoid behaviour blaming everyone else for his woes begins to impact on your own mental health

He then blames you for the collapse of the neighbourhood watch.

For me it’s very simple: the people of England don’t vote the way I (and the majority of Scotland) vote. As such, I feel the interests of Scotland would be better served if Scotland’s government were to be independent.

Pretty much sums it up for me as well.

Nationalism/Patriotism doesn’t even register.

@tjagain what about the neighbour’s lovely wife and kids, who your family get along well with, who you’ve abandoned to his drinking and abuse?

Pretty horrible analogy there csb.
However I’d have to ask how it helps if we continue to allow the abuser to abuse us as well?

It was tj’s analogy, i was just reflecting what it feels like to be stuck in England with the his abusive drunkard.

If the whole street is full of abusive drunkards then do I have more of an obligation to my neighbours family just because they are my neighbours or should I seek to treat all the families equally?

Ah well my apologies for my error in attributing the analogy to you.
However it is still the case that England will by and large get the government it votes for.

I’m Scottish by birth and family on my father’s side. Mum was born in Tipperary and I’ve more family in Ireland but although I hold Irish citizenship and will soon have an Irish passport I don’t feel Irish (don’t even really support the rugby team unless they’re playing the ABs). I feel Scottish first and European second (hence the passport). Have lived in Essex and Surrey but didn’t ever feel settled.

CSB

I was troubled by that before the last referendum and voted yes with a heavy heart. Mrs TJ voted no for that reason. Post brexit? An easy yes

Apologies if the analogy was poor. Trying to find a way to explain it to molegrips

If the whole street is full of abusive drunkards

Lazy stereotyping of all English as tory voting brexiteers, you know better than that.

I’m torn too. Half Scottish and would get my EU passport out of it. But detest the insinuation that those in England are all the same.

No one has made that insinuation. Anti independence types keep cliaming we say it. No one has actually done so

Well Scotroutes did quite a good job at it up there.

Nope. Not at all. He was referring to why do we have to help.our neighbours but not those down the street

No. I was suggesting that I’m no more responsible for folk in England than I am for any other country in Europe or, indeed, the world. It was you that chose how to extend the original analogy. I’d already made the point previously using Norway (another neighbour) as an example. Just scroll back a bit.

For me it’s very simple: the people of England don’t vote the way I (and the majority of Scotland) vote. As such, I feel the interests of Scotland would be better served if Scotland’s government were to be independent.

Yep pretty much me too. Thats my general opinion on the concept, the practicalities, the financial implications etc alter to a greater or lesser extent the strength of my conviction to yes or no.

I’m less worried about England voting for the tories and being being right wing nut jobs blah de blah de blah. and more worried about the fact they keep voting for people who are quite open about the fact they’re going to continue to take the piss.

I’d not vote for SNP on the principal that they like flag shaggers everywhere are not to be trusted.

Lazy stereotyping of all English as tory voting brexiteers, you know better than that.

I’m torn too. Half Scottish and would get my EU passport out of it. But detest the insinuation that those in England are all the same.

I think a few are blue sky thinking with Scotland and how they are, having lived in Glasgow, that was possibly the worst place i’ve stayed for xenophobic and sectarian crap, such an insular place, and i am Scottish, stayed in the central belt and Perth as well, they’re not as bad, but i think a few folk thinking Scotland is some left utopia are probably around the Edinburgh area!

It’s the same down south, stayed in a few places in the south of England, there are vast differences between areas, some places i’ll just not live around, some areas i prefer to stay, politics isn’t the biggest draw for me in this, again it’s the people and way of life.

I’m still hoping that @csb will come back and apologise for the slur.

I still read the bit you said and I quoted as you doubling down on Tj’s drunken neighbour analogy as all English being undesirable drunkards who need abandoning. Sorry.

Half Scottish and would get my EU passport out of it.

How would this work? Should Scotland become independent and if (which I think is a significant if) it joined the EU – who would be entitled to what passports. How long would you have to have lived in Scotland to be given a Scottish passport?
Sorry, I know that a lot of people know far more about the practicalities than I do. But, things like this get me wondering.

Gauss. To be decided. Everyone living here for sure. Ex pats or those with a scots granny? To be decided.

Ex pats

What is an ‘ex pat’ in these circumstances? There are huge numbers of people, born in Scotland, who live and work in England. Many of them, who no doubt regard themselves as Scottish. And again, many of them intending to move back to Scotland as circumstances allow. Do they need to ‘rush back’, to be on the safe side?

I’m back to – it’s just not worth all the hassle.

Everyone living here for sure.

Also, how do you know ‘for sure’? Are there international laws on this?

Edit: Now, even I think that all sounds a bit silly. But, there are just so many things to consider.

I have some sympathy with ex-pats and I can understand the concerns of those who think they might get an EU passport through the granny rule or whatever.Fundamentally I think independence is an issue to be decided by those who live in Scotland at the time of the referendum. Sorry ex pats and 2nd home owners you don’t get a vote.

For me it’s very simple: the people of England don’t vote the way I (and the majority of Scotland) vote. As such, I feel the interests of Scotland would be better served if Scotland’s government were to be independent

You could take that analagy right down to local council level – “the people of Council X voted a Tory council in, we as a neighbouring Labour council Y now want to dissasociate ourselves from Council X and have nowt more to do with them!”. “In fact we’ll twin with Council Z 1000 miles away”. 😀

The franchise question is interesting . There is a school of thought in nationalist circles which holds that they lost indyref because non natives were allowed to vote. So perhaps the “middle class colonialists” will not get a vote next time

https://scotlandspeaks.com/canongate-wall-and-the-indyref-franchise-question-459

tjagain
Full Member
You claimed there was a British culture. But you cant say what it is

There is a british culture, nothing to say that culture has to be run as one political culture. Bit of diversity in that respect won’t be a bad thing. imo.

What is british culture then please? The constituent countries share some cultural ideas yes but there is no british culture that i can see.

Muffin man. The difference is Scotland is a county with its own culture legal system and ethos. Its not a region of England no matter how much you wish it to be