Scotland Indyref 2

I’ve never felt British. I’m Scottish.

Isn’t Scotland in Britain though?

I’m British. I live in Wales, but Wales is part of Britain and contributes to it. It’d be like saying I’m Cardiffian but not Welsh.

I’ve never felt British. I’m Scottish.

Why do you feel that way?

So Scotland is the same as a city noo. You don’t have talk some pish.

It’d be like saying I’m Cardiffian but not Welsh.

No its not. Britain means nowt to me and its about whats in your heart.

If you feel british fine. I don’t.

Nailed there Nickc

Not teally. Just showing a lack of understanding

Duncan. Do you live in Scotland?

Not sure how this has turned into this, I’m Scottish and also British, I’ve never felt like I want to pick one over the other, I’ll happily put British in a form that requires it.

It’s the same with this whole paradise that Scotland could be argument, Scotland will still have unionists, they’ll still have criminals, they’ll still have white van man and so on, talk of changing tax and welfare, or building a sustainable energy sector won’t cheer a lot of voters after independence if they have to give up 1 or 2 (or more) percentage of their wage to pay for it. The only change is that whoever governs won’t have Westminster to blame if it upsets too many voters.

Oh moley

Im an edinbugger not a soapdodger

Oh moley

Im an edinbugger not a soapdodger

Argee. You feel that in your heart its fine. I don’t

Perhaps molgrips doesn’t have a heart.
I’m just not sure why a country can be in your heart but when people talk about the overwhelming love they felt when they first held their baby, that is put down to a chemical reaction (see previous threads).
The heart is a muscle, nothing more.
I feel no sense of nationalism or belonging whatsoever and am hoping to leave GB forever in a few years’ time.

Why do you feel that way?

Nothing complicated about it. I live in Scotland. Granted, that is in the northern portion of a land mass which was coined Great Britain. But, in terms of “Britishness” that means zip to me. I’m Scottish.

Actually i think your wrong there argee on money. The SNP were elected on a tax raising manifesto and despite being ruthlessly attacked for it still won easily

I think a % or two will be fine
20% is a whole different game but i paid more tax my last year of working than an english nurse would

You feel that in your heart its fine. I don’t

Yeah but WHY do you feel that way? This is what I am getting at.

The pilot. Its an easy way to explain. Same as the team you support. You cannot change it.

Its an emotional attachment. I have a deep love for Scotland. England is just between meh and blurgh

Because i love Scotland. I have a deep emotional attachment

Moley

Im sure you love your kids. Do you love your neighbour’s kids the same?

Actually i think your wrong there argee on money. The SNP were elected on a tax raising manifesto and despite being ruthlessly attacked for it still won easily

I think a % or two will be fine
20% is a whole different game but i paid more tax my last year of working than an english nurse would

Again, like brexit, they’re happy until they start seeing the negatives and having to pay as well, it’ll all come down to what the plan is, and as stated a few times, it’s all hypothetical just now, no timelines, no costings, that will be the make or break for that 10% who will sway this vote.

Ok, so there’s a fundamental difference. I could change my team very easily. I’d still keep an eye on the other one but I could switch allegiances no problem.
As for love, I definitely don’t love a land mass or a culture. Not sure I love anything to be honest.
Maybe whisky, which is probably why I should stop posting 😉

The SNP were elected on a tax raising manifesto and despite being ruthlessly attacked for it still won easily

Tax raising manifesto? Not sure a promise to freeze income tax counts as a tax raising manifesto.

Nicola said

The Scottish National party has committed to a £2.5bn boost to frontline NHS spending, a freeze on income tax throughout the next parliament

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/apr/15/snp-manifesto-nicola-sturgeon-plans-nhs-boost-and-income-tax-freeze

As far as income tax goes there is little difference in UK and Scotland until after £43k. So I’m not surprised the majority who don’t pay SNP higher rate taxes don’t let it affect their vote.

Luckily the SNP 54.5% tax rate (income tax plus NI) between £43k and £50k is easily avoided.

Argee. We were happy to have tax raised.

Irc. I paid a bit more tax on 32000. Paid a bit more salery than an english nurse as well. Couple of hundred a year worse off.

The point is the attack based around tax raises got no traction. The people of sco3were happy to see tax raised. We are still a low tax economy

Im sure you love your kids. Do you love your neighbour’s kids the same?

I’m not sure that’s particularly relevant, it’s not really the same thing.

Because i love Scotland. I have a deep emotional attachment

I have a deep emotional attachment to Wales. But it’s part of Britain, and I have emotional attachments to other places too, especially Finland. I find the localisation of affections to the active exclusion of other places quite strange and cliquey. Isn’t this the definition of tribalism?

Like it or not you’re part of British culture, you’re part of what makes Britain what it is.

I have a deep emotional attachment to Wales. But it’s part of Britain, and I have emotional attachments to other places too, especially Finland. I find the localisation of affections to the active exclusion of other places quite strange and cliquey. Isn’t this the definition of tribalism?

Like it or not you’re part of British culture, you’re part of what makes Britain what it is.

Britain will still exist if scotland goes independent.

The point is the attack based around tax raises got no traction. The people of sco3were happy to see tax raised. We are still a low tax economy

It’s not an attack, it’s a fundamental part of any party trying to gain power, not many of them have made it with a tagline of ‘you’ll earn less under us’.

People will vote for what affects them more positively in most instances, it’s how folk vote for the trumps and boris’ of this world!

Molgrips. Its exactly the same thing

Argee

When the snp put tax raises in the manifesto they were attacked for it relentlessly in the press and by other political parties. Their vote was unnaffected
People voted for a party they knew would raise tax

Like it or not you’re part of British culture, you’re part of what makes Britain what it is.

There is no British culture.

I have no affinity to britain.

The people of Scotland happy about tax rises? Not the people paying the higher taxes. But as a matter of interest can you point to any news item during the campaign where any SNP spokesperson said “we will raise taxes”?

Here’s what the SNP website said.

14. Freeze income tax rates and bands, and increase thresholds by a maximum of inflation, to keep money in people’s pockets.

What are the SNP policies at the 2021 Scottish Election?

Of course the net result of the SNP getting control of income tax was that their changes resulted in raising less money than they would have got under the previous system.

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fbusiness%2F2021%2F12%2F13%2Fnicola-sturgeons-tartan-tax-has-dismal-failure%2F

Your at it again molgrips. You cannot tell me what i feel is wrong. Its pretty offensive to try.

Like it or not you’re part of British culture, you’re part of what makes Britain what it is.

Should Scotland, England or Wales choose independence, we’d still be sharing the same land mass which constitutes Britain.

Not the people paying the higher taxes.

I’m one of them, and perfectly happy to do so.

So was i

“Your at it again molgrips. You cannot tell me what i feel is wrong. Its pretty offensive to try.”

TJ has a point. If this was about sexuality, it could be classed as conversion therapy.

Your at it again molgrips. You cannot tell me what i feel is wrong. Its pretty offensive to try.

I’m really not.

There is no British culture.

I dispute that.

I’m sure if paying more tax makes you feel good the govt will take extra donations.

Though funnily enough the number of people paying extra tax is miniscule compared to the people who say they are happy to pay more tax.

https://www.taxjournal.com/articles/want-to-pay-more-tax-

What are you doing then, molgrips? People generally can’t tell you why they feel how they feel but my best guess is they feel that way because it allows them to feel/be who they want to be/feel they are.

You are molgrips. You are telling me i am something that I dont agree with a dont feel

One thing being in Ireland has done is convinced me more than evet we need independence. Ireland has a contentment that has been lost in the uk

Whats British culture then?

Isn’t it about what you experience in that place too? I lived and worked in Finland but I don’t have any affection for it for loads of reasons which I won’t go into now but suffice to say I was in a job where I was valued for being ‘cheap labour’ and was made to feel like a total outsider by pretty much everyone.

I know at least 4 higher rate tax payers who are happy to pay more and voted SNP knowing that it would mean higher taxes for them.
I think there is a British Culture there’s next to nothing I can think of in British culture that says “Scotland” to me. I think of myself as Scottish and not as a subject of the United Kingdom.I see the two as equal but different.

Gordimhor

The tartan and shortbread Scottishness or as a pal of mine calls it ” that Victorian crap”

Its nowt to do with Scotland really. Its all invented by victorias court

Whats British culture then?

Er, quite a difficult question to answer.

Isn’t it about what you experience in that place too?

I think it is almost entirely. That’s why if you ask a question about living somewhere on here, you’ll get answers ranging from ‘it’s shit’ to ‘it’s amazing’.

People generally can’t tell you why they feel how they feel

It’s worth thinking about why you feel a particular way though. I wish more people had done that during the Brexit campaign for example.