Overtaking.

He should assume that I am interested in passing until he sees evidence to the contrary.

I’d assume that. But after a couple of missed opportunities I’d revise that to assume that you may or may not intend to pass but are never likely to actually do so.

Back to the supermarket tills. If you’re hovering around a till but not actually joining it, I’d hang back to give you a chance to make a decision. After a little while I’d conclude that you’re not going to bother and start loading up the checkout.

(Well, in practice I’d probably ask you if you were in the queue, but in a line of traffic we unfortunately don’t have that luxury so I’d have to apply a best guess)

you didn’t attempt to overtake in a gap which was an overtaking spot as far as he was concerned.
…
I’m sure he knows he has a fast car,

Not that I agree with your logical progression there, but assuming it to be correct for the sake of this point, if there’s a passing opportunity which someone in a ‘fast’ can utilise but you in your ‘regular’ car cannot, where’s the foul in him taking it? Chances are, by the next pseudo-opportunity, he’ll be past again and away. Is it fair that he should be have to wait for you?

If you’re on the Tube escalators, is it fair to stand on the left blocking faster pedestrians because it’s your ‘turn’ to disembark next?

But after a couple of missed opportunities I’d revise that to assume that you may or may not intend to pass but are never likely to actually do so.

That’s fine. But these guys do not wait. They come through immediately. People commonly arrive at the back of a long queue and start jumping it. Not just one person either – I’ve often looked in my mirrors every small straight and seen two or three cars doing it. Nothing I can do about it when I’m four or five cars back except give them enough space and be prepared to avoid the debris.

Cougar, the scenario I’m talking about in the supermarket would be if I’m walking directly towards the checkout, and you decide to run.

where’s the foul in him taking it?

I’ve said this about 20 times now. Because him being in front of me then stands a fair chance of scuppering me next time.

That’s fine. But these guys do not wait. They come through immediately. People commonly arrive at the back of a long queue and start jumping it. Not just one person either – I’ve often looked in my mirrors every small straight and seen two or three cars doing it. Nothing I can do about it when I’m four or five cars back except give them enough space and be prepared to avoid the debris.

Fair comment. And the latter half of your comment I’ve addressed earlier.

Cougar, the scenario I’m talking about in the supermarket would be if I’m walking directly towards the checkout, and you decide to run.

Why don’t you run too?

I was wondering this a moment ago but in the interest of stretching a poor analogy still further, how about if I naturally walk more quickly than you do?

Yee-ha!

Just to go back to the supermarket analogy: if you are walking down the aisle towards the checkout end of the shop. Are you saying you wouldn’t walk past someone who was walking in the same direction but dawdling and might be going to pick up something at that end of the aisle, just in case they were going to the checkout? How can you tell they ate going to the queue? Bizarre!

This thread may well have the highest fail:post ratio evar. I figured that 22 pages later things would’ve moved on, how wrong I was…

I’ve said this about 20 times now. Because him being in front of me then stands a fair chance of scuppering me next time.

Except that’s not true, because if he’s the sort of person who is driving [assertively | recklessly] like that, when your “next time” comes around he’ll be either progressing further up the line or long gone. Are you saying that in your experience people muscle halfway up a line of traffic and then start just ignoring passing places?

I was going to post on this thread, but then I decided not to, as we are collectively disappearing up our own arse here. However, having gone to the bother of typing that I will add my point of view.

I like driving fast.
I don’t drive as fast as I used to when I was 20.
Sometimes I **** up when I’m driving.
When that happens I wonder if I’m actually a good driver. And beat myself up over it.
Everyone **** up sometimes when they’re driving.
As regards overtaking, the roads are too full of traffic coming the other way most of the time. If I had a Porsche……. but I don’t.

I agree in principal with the OP though.

Last time it snowed properly around here (2 years ago) there was a BMW doing 10mph up the road from my house. I overtook at 25, cue lots of horn blowing and lights flashing. WTF?
There are some bad/crap/ overly aggressive drivers out there.

stuff

Except that’s not true

So what you’re saying is, I’m imagining it all?

Your scenario 3 is just stupid. He’s got no idea what’s coming the other way and when.

By the time he meets something coming the other way, he’s already done exactly the same as the driver in your scenario. Neither driver is intentionally stopping you from overtaking. Neither driver knows that their actions will stop you from overtaking. They’ve done exactly the same thing, their knowledge is exactly the same, their intentions towards you are exactly the same, the effect they have on you is exactly the same. Both of them prevent you overtaking when you should have been through. I don’t see why the actions of one of them is SO UNFAIR and the other is just fine.

If he was really considerate to other motorists, he wouldn’t be queue jumping

Do not try and bend the spoon queue. That’s impossible. Instead… only try to realize the truth.

Fact is, he’s impatient

Because he wants to overtake the slow moving vehicle at the front of the queue? So you’re not impatient?

Fact is, he’s impatient

But so are you, because you also want to overtake the lorry rather than patiently wait behind it.

In fact, I think you should wait behind, because he may want to arrive at his destination first, as is his right.

And even if you can’t be sure he is going to the same place you are, you should still wait behind him just in case he is, because it wouldn’t be fair to arrive before him when it’s his turn to get there first.

So what you’re saying is, I’m imagining it all?

Well, if you read the rest of my post beyond that sentence, I did try and explain what I was saying.

To wit, they’re not “scuppering you next time” unless you’re seriously telling me that people routinely blast past you aggressively in slow-moving traffic and then proceed to stay in front of you impeding your progress when subsequent passing opportunities present themselves. And if that is what is happening, then frankly I’m at a loss as to why that would be. I’d expect people who are in a hurry would tend to stay in a hurry, and vice versa.

Going back to the “running to the till” analogy you posited earlier; when someone runs to the till in front of you, are they then more likely to fanny about for ages, or rush through the till and run off?

Are we still going?

OK

In the situation where I am second, then I am not doing anything. Unless the car in front is very obviously not trying to overtake, and is 20m or mor eback at all times.

WTF has 20m got to do,with it? Just take them both at once if there’s no gap. Sod all this hanging around mullarky. 🙂

Pointless arguing, ban everyone, especially that Cougar fella. Ban him twice and then ban him again.

I’ve lost all will to live.

I’ve lost all will to live.

I’m assuming that all but 2 participants in this thread are doing so with a wide grin on their faces. Perhaps that is a bit naive of me.

🙂

I’m assuming that all but 2 participants in this thread are doing so with a wide grin on their faces.

2 ? not just 1 ?

No, two. Cougar is a joyless moderator now remember.

*waves at our noble sheriff*

But the whole point of this thread is flawed because a line of flowing traffic is not a queue is it? A queue is defined as a line of people waiting – most usually for the same thing.

A line of traffic behind say a slow moving truck will have all sort of intensions. Some are driving long distance, some just to the shops, some want to overtake, some are happy to sit there, some are a big group of friends split between two cars wanting to stay close to each other, some will be turning off at the next junction, some at the second junction, some at the third, some have been let into the line of traffic at the midway point from a side road, some may not even know where they are or where they’re going.

So it’s not a queue in the true definition of the word – more a random collection of vehicles each with completely different intensions who happen to be at the same part of the road network at roughly the same time.

So we need to start again then?

But the whole point of this thread is flawed

Since when did that ever stop anyone?? 😆

Keep it going. It’s like Groundhog Day. The only thing going nowhere as doggedly as this thread is molgrip’s driving 😉

To add molegrips, if you were second in line behind a slow moving truck, how would you feel if the first driver just infront of you slowed and flashed his lights to kindly let another driver enter ahead of him from a side road. You are now sent back to third in line behind the truck.

An overtaking oppertunity comes up but only enough for two cars. The two cars infront of you go but you are left stuck behind the truck. There are no more overtaking oppertunities for another 5 miles.

How would you feel in this instance? Did the other drivers act of kindness and consideration steal your oppertunity to overtake from you?

Molgrips still doesnt seem to grasp that mr speedy can go faster therefore he has more oppertunities to overtake safely in a shorter distance.
Why should he be held up because someone else cant / wont overtake?

If he’s overtaken molgrips and dropped in front of him, he’ll be gone again before molgrips has the chance to overtake.

Still smacks of sour grapes to me. ITS NOT FAIR. I still dont get how its bad manners.

What makes you think that I’m doing something wrong?
Err, so Driving grips doesn’t do anything wrong when he drives ? ie, you’re the perfect driver 😯

Why can speedyman not just be an arsehole? Are there no arseholes on the road?
Err, That the roads are full, verge to verge, with less than perfect people. Isn’t news, is it ? Not even after 23 pages on a bike forum.

I’m sure the driver in your scenario wasn’t intentionally stopping you from overtaking.
I bet he was……. remember, the whole world is set against some folk.
😉

(Well, in practice I’d probably ask you if you were in the queue, but in a line of traffic we unfortunately don’t have that luxury so I’d have to apply a best guess)
Which is why every car should be equiped with a roof mounted PA system. Then you can ask the car in front, whether they are going to overtake or not.
😀

Morning all…. Still here then?

Molly, have you enroled on the IAM/RoSPA course yet? 😉

You should all try a driving spell in Romania

Etiquette and politeness isn’t really something that goes into planing an overtake there.

Any overtaking move where no on dies is a good one.

My favourite is the double overtake.

Tractor is travelling down the road, you pull out to overtake. Guy behind in an X5 pulls out past you (sometimes even slightly onto the verge) and goes round both of you simultaneously.

Once you’ve experienced that, Speedy man in UK moving up the queue is really not something I’d even bat an eyelid at

I spent a year in Saudia Arabia in the early 90s. That was a similar eye opener too…

In town at traffic lights. Two lanes. Five cars abreast including mounting the pavement was a common occurance.

Five cars abreast on a three lane motorway (between Alkhobar and Ras Tanura if you know the area) was also common. Equivalent to undertaking on the hard shoulder while another driver overtakes at 90mph on the gravel between lane three and the armco barrier!!

You should try India. I was in a mini bus which was being overtaken by a 4×4 as the same time we were overtaking a truck which was overtaking a tractor which was overtaking a rickshaw.

Looking closely ahead down the road exactly the same thing was happening but coming towards us in the opposite direction. Somehow the traffic all merged and we all lived.

You should try Barnstable. Sheesh.

You should try India. I was in a mini bus which was being overtaken by a 4×4 as the same time we were overtaking a truck which was overtaking a tractor which was overtaking a rickshaw.

Shouldn’t there be something there about an old lady who swallowed a fly, I don’t know why she swallowed a fly, perhaps she’ll die?

You should try India. I was in a mini bus which was being overtaken by a 4×4 as the same time we were overtaking a truck which was overtaking a tractor which was overtaking a rickshaw.

That’s so unfair. It was molgrips’ turn.

In town at traffic lights. Two lanes. Five cars abreast including mounting the pavement was a common occurance.

They’ve stopped at the traffic lights, thats more civilised than London.

That’s so unfair. It was molgrips’ turn.

Fair ?, try explaining your concept of fair to this bunch.

Bump for the vegetarians.

I get it now. This thread is an allegory for the pigheadedness displayed by both sides of the eternal religion/atheism debate, in a format where no-one can claim persecution of their beliefs with any success, thus ensuring the thread remains open.

Excellent work all.

It’s early days yet but so may be the vegetable thread. But I have work to do so won’t be joining in today. 🙁

Boom! 800!??!!

I’ll get my string backed driving gloves 😳