Our (level headed) MD saw a "ghost" last week!

Junky, don’t worry, it’s probably more about the tone my inner voice applies to your posts, they come over as a little bit condescending sometimes is all. ( I know you don’t mean them to be)

Science is great and massively important, but ghost stories are an important folk lore regarding our past, the people that populate them, and fragility of human existence. They’re silly, probably explainable but nevertheless enduring, and that requires explanation and understanding not high handed rejection

The debate should perhaps be not ” do ghost exist” but ” why, given our wide understanding of the world do these stories persist”

I know you don’t mean them to be

Sometimes I do this unintentionally, sometimes intentionally but I am trying to stop/not do this 😳
Sorry you probably have a point tbh.

I have no problems with learning the moral/spiritual or other messages from folklore be it Beowulf or fairy stories/myths/legends but I do if I am expected to believe the charcters are real.

And that’s the problem with ghost stories, in lots if them the people were real.

Humans need to know. Always have always will, and the question “what, if anything, happens after the body dies” is one of the last enduring unknowns. It wasn’t that long ago that scientists were weighing people as they died so that they could record the weight of the soul leaving the body…

We know so much, and it sometimes only serves to underline how little we understand

Look up hypnopompic and hypnagogic hallucinations. Actually pretty common, and very, very realistic for the people that have them. Also helps to explain why most ‘ghost’ sightings happen at night and are usually experienced by a solitary person. Unless you’ve done research and have found out that what you are having are these type of hallucinations, you would think that what you were seeing where ghosts. These aren’t seizures, it’s simply a failure of the brain to quickly distinguish between sleep and awake. They can also last for up to a minute, even when you feel fully awake and your heart in is your mouth pumping adrenaline because you can’t believe what you are seeing. Lots of people see spiders crawling on walls that aren’t there etc etc, but many people see people – such as a stranger sitting on the end of the bed etc. Some are extreme hallucinations that last for what seems like a long time, some are mild. The film Fight Club plays on a similar idea.

The debate should perhaps be not ” do ghost exist” but ” why, given our wide understanding of the world do these stories persist”

Easy. People like to believe there is more to life than there is. Imagination. That and…

‘Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I’m not sure about the former.’ Albert Einstein

‘Most people would rather die than think; in fact they do so.’ Bernard Russell

‘…those who latch on to an unreasonable notion and thereafter refuse to listen to any further discussion of it have problems that are more amenable to psychiatry than to argument.’ Jeff Cooper

‘Once in a while you will stumble upon the truth but most of us manage to pick ourselves up and hurry along as if nothing had happened.’ Sir Winston Churchill

‘The skills needed to produce logically sound arguments, for instance, are the same skills that are necessary to recognize when a logically sound argument has been made. Thus, if people lack the skills to produce correct answers, they are also cursed with an inability to know when their answers, or anyone else’s, are right or wrong. They cannot recognize their responses as mistaken, or other people’s responses as superior to their own.’ Dunning-Kruger

‘Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge.’ Samuel Langhorne Clemens

The debate should perhaps be not ” do ghost exist” but ” why, given our wide understanding of the world do these stories persist”

There’s a fair bit of psychology research into why people seem to enjoy being frightened, whether that’s roller coasters, horror movies or ghost stories. Thats one possible contributing factor to the persistence of the scary ghost story.

The debate should perhaps be not ” do ghost exist” but ” why, given our wide understanding of the world do these stories persist”
Easy. People like to believe there is more to life than there is. Imagination. That and…
‘Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I’m not sure about the former.’ Albert Einstein
‘Most people would rather die than think; in fact they do so.’ Bernard Russell
‘…those who latch on to an unreasonable notion and thereafter refuse to listen to any further discussion of it have problems that are more amenable to psychiatry than to argument.’ Jeff Cooper
‘Once in a while you will stumble upon the truth but most of us manage to pick ourselves up and hurry along as if nothing had happened.’ Sir Winston Churchill
‘The skills needed to produce logically sound arguments, for instance, are the same skills that are necessary to recognize when a logically sound argument has been made. Thus, if people lack the skills to produce correct answers, they are also cursed with an inability to know when their answers, or anyone else’s, are right or wrong. They cannot recognize their responses as mistaken, or other people’s responses as superior to their own.’ Dunning-Kruger
‘Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge.’ Samuel Langhorne Clemens

I realise you’ve probably given yourself an erection quoting all those from memory. I’m sure you wouldn’t google it. Tbh, I’m strangely aroused myself, but has it crossed your mind that humans kinda like telling stories?

Tucker quoting like that just makes you look like a slave to other people’s ideas 🙂

Ok,, I would have to say something inside me believes there is something that carries on after we die, some form of energy

Lots of things carry on after we die. The orbit of the Earth around the sun, that’ll keep going. Other people will keep living their lives.

In much the same way, things happened before you were born.

You are a brief ordering of atoms and energy. After you die, that energy and matter will go on to do something else. It won’t go on to be a ghost though.

my mind is open to all possibilities

It is possible that ghosts are real. It is also possible that gods exist. Or that a specific god exists. Or that leprechauns are real. Or the Loch Ness monster.

It’s just that none of these things are very probable.

It’s good to have an open mind, but if you open it too much your brain will fall out.

It’s good to have an open mind, but if you open it too much your brain will fall out.

😆

Tim Minchin gets the credit for that, not me 🙂

Very good organic

“It’s good to have an open mind, but if you open it too much your brain will fall out.” – Frankenstein

user_removed

I’ve told my two tales here more than once, so suffice to say, the first involved some very messed up noises at my bedroom door one morning (like a dragon chewing a herd of pigs) and the second involved someone breathing hard in my ear, in a pitch black 16th century Tuscan villa (where I had previously felt completely comfortable).

No rational explanation for either has ever been suggested to me. No drink, drugs or mental instability…

Were you in bed asleep, about to sleep, or just woken from sleep at any time?

When you are in and out of light sleep, different parts of your brain wake up at different times, give you some quite weird dreams, sounds and visions.

I get it quite a lot, I’m quite a light sleeper. When I get a cold that effects sleep a bit more, some of the dreams and visions I have range from hilarious to pant-shittingly-scary.

On more than one occasion I have woken up screaming trying to punch the air – if I wasn’t a rational thinker it would be simple to attach this to haunting, but luckily I understand how sleeping and the brain works.

The last one I had was a few weeks ago (had a nasty cold at the time) – two figures walked into my room and proceeded to sort of poke and grab at me. I was trying to punch the figures but my body was frozen solid. I then suddenly woke up, shot upright and gave the curtain one of my finest right hooks. 😆

It’s just the part of my brain that’s responsible for movement being asleep, in combination with my brain being active DURING sleep, with probably my eyes and vision being awake explaining why I was so vividly in my room.

Have had all sorts of things like that. Used to properly freak my GF out at the start. Have on occasion told her “It’s alright, they’ve left now” and other horror film-esqe style stuff whilst in states of light sleep.

I did sleepwalk on occasion as a child (not much tho, maybe 3 or 4 incidents total) – that’s a totally bizarre feeling – walking around with your eyes awake so you’re *aware* of where you are, but you’re unable to direct your body or do anything. Parents once asked me what I was doing, I replied in a clear and calm manner: “I have no idea.” 😆

All part of the complexities of the brain.

EDIT: One of my more funnier dreams I remember was being in a supermarket with a stretch-horse (like a stretch limousine), but the floor was water and you had to walk over crocodiles. My brain is awesome.

Maybe it was this guy:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24486718

Explain that, Science Dudes !

Can we give the pseudo scientific debate a rest and just have some good old fashioned ghost stories please? That’s what I paid for when I came in.

I realise you’ve probably given yourself an erection quoting all those from memory.

Worse than that, I have them saved in a favorite quotes document. The erection just come form sitting here stroking myself.

The science dudes aren’t the one claiming to be able to explain it 🙂

Tucker quoting like that just makes you look like a slave to other people’s ideas

Damn good job I don’t care how others perceive me then isn’t it?

Explain that, Science Dudes !

Nothing to do with science, it’s a law issue.

What I don’t get, is despite the exponential rise in high quality audio and video recording devices to the point practically everyone on the planet carries one all the time, there is no corresponding rise in evidence of ghosts, ufo’s, bigfoot, santa etc etc.

Could someone just telepathically transfer their reading of all these posts to me as I cannae be arsed.

As Stephen Fry once asked; if there are Ghosts why only humans? Many more animals have died on the planet than humans so by law of averages there ought to be loads of them too…

Buildings can creep you out because of minor temperature changes which your body picks up on and your most basic feral instinct reacts to. Buildings also emit a great deal of noise/vibration that ordinarily you may not notice or dismiss when they are full of people. Rocks, stones and mansonry have massively different chemical compostions even if they look the same to the naked eye so they expand contract and have diferent heat retention properties.

@Organic it was good but it’s not right!

Both her mum and dad claim that after removing the shelves the next day, they had no more incidents in the house.

Now, this is the dodgiest part of this story. Why on earth, when faced with a genuine reproducable example of paranormal activity, wouldn’t you get on the blower to the nearest university/crackpot instutution and get some experts round to set up monitoring and figure out what the hell was going on?

I know I would!

if there are Ghosts why only humans? Many more animals have died on the planet than humans so by law of averages there ought to be loads of them too

Animals don’t have enough psychic energy to maintain a spectral form, obviously! Duh, some people 🙄

I think you are wrong molly I heard you can only see ghosts that are the same species as you as that is your “astral ” plane

Dogs see dogs cats see cats humans see humans

Its obvious when you think about it

there is no corresponding rise in evidence of ghosts, ufo’s, bigfoot, santa etc etc.

wow wow wow, back up there – no evidence of santa??? what are trying to tell me? what about the glass of sherry, carrot and mince pie we leave out? he ALWAYS eats them…. ALWAYS..

Well kids Xmas is cancelled. 🙁

wow wow wow, back up there – no evidence of santa???

Relax – we’ve already agreed that nobody can categorically prove that Santa doesn’t exist. So all the evidence in folklore, presents mysteriously arriving on Dec 25th, mince pies and glasses of sherry must prove (to the open minded 😉 ) that he’s real.

ETA – carrots??? Forget that! Leave him another mince pie and you might get the XBox.

carrots???

for the magic flying raindeer of course.
what he’s going to do now the woodburners in, I’m not sure…

GHOSTS EXIST – FACT

Its obvious when you think about it

Oh yeah of course, silly me.

So what are those headless horsemen ghosts riding then?

Organic,
what are we looking at in that picture?

EDIT 😀

Dogs see dogs cats see cats humans see humans

I think ghost humans can see ghost horses though.

damn you scientists

You’ll be telling me next that aliens dont exist!

Nah!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/10321227/Alien-life-found-living-in-Earths-atmosphere-claims-scientist.html

Ah right. So science eventually catches up with the ‘lore then 8)

It’s almost certain that aliens (other lifeforms) exist out there somewhere. However, they might just be single celled. Or a fluid. Or maybe a gas.

Worth reading the fictional book The Sphere for some great thoughts on this.

So science eventually catches up with the ‘lore then

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 😉

miketually – Member
ok,, I would have to say something inside me believes there is something that carries on after we die, some form of energy
Lots of things carry on after we die. The orbit of the Earth around the sun, that’ll keep going. Other people will keep living their lives.

In much the same way, things happened before you were born.

You are a brief ordering of atoms and energy. After you die, that energy and matter will go on to do something else. It won’t go on to be a ghost though.

You knew what I meant, too many wanna be scientists on here 🙄