Tom,

No one likes a smart arse but sources/links would be nice. I read the book when first published and haven’t followed the story since.

Junkyard – I never said his story proves that near death experiences are super natural, just that he addresses all the usual explanations given and why they did not apply to him using his medical knowledge and this is what makes it interesting, at the very least it suggested we still have a lot to learn about the human body and brain.

If he is now contradicted by the doctors who treated him or his own medical records c’est la vie. He has done well out of it for someone who is so easily dismissed as suffering from massive brain damage.

After a bit of googling;

It looks like Esquire published a de-bunking article in July which questions the Doctors character and motives – they found mal-practice lawsuits against him and essentially call him a liar about certain embellishments in his story. Shame you have to pay to read the whole thing.

A better article on Scientific American which looks more at the science at less at trying to discredit the Doctor is here:Scientific American Link

I still find the whole thing interesting; it’s been on the list of things to read up for a while along with the whole third man phenomenon (mountaineers experiencing help from someone else when they are alone etc.)

Tom – With regards to this other chap you keep chattering on about is it worth my time reading about him? I’ve never heard of him so I won’t waste my time unless it is of interest.

I still find the whole thing interesting

The thing is, so do scientists. They find it unbelievably fascinating. They find it so fascinating that some dedicate their working lives to learning about and illuminating the murkiest corners of human experience.

Having tried their best to do this, they’re often told that they’re closed minded. This can rile a little.

If you are interested in the complexities of human consciousness then VS Ramachandran and Oliver Sachs’ books are probably the best known pop science expositions. Phantoms In The Brain is a fantastic book.

When I was about 8 I must’ve been having nightmares since I ended up in my parents’ bed. I then woke up and the bed had become a large square field with a giant meatball rolling around the edge of it. I had to get to the middle of the field to avoid being squashed. I was wide awake as I can remember seeing both the field and meatball and my parents’ bed and their rather shocked faces as they tried to calm me down. I wad also talking to them.

Fairly confident the bed did not actually become a field.

There are four possibilities:
1. The person making the report is lying;……… nope.
2. The person making the report is mistaken…… not possible, you’d have to have been there to understand
3. In its ultimate essence time, space, matter and energy are incomprehensible by us and all sorts of weirdness is possible….. I can go with this one.
4. Ghosts, as in spirits of the dead, exist….. I don’t think so but remain open minded on the the whole afterlife thing.

Some bedtime reading brain power

I’d be interested to know what the sceptics / scientists would consider to be evidence in the domain of the supernatural?

What would you consider to be evidence for telekinesis,ghosts, poltergeists, esp, faith healing.

What would you research wquestion be and how would you test a hypothesis?

Some bedtime reading brain power

THERE EXISTS IN NATURE A DYNAMIC MENTAL PRINCIPLE—A MIND-POWER—PERVADING ALL SPACE—IMMANENT IN ALL THINGS MANIFESTING IN AN INFINITE VARIETY OF FORMS, DEGREES, AND PHASES.

See the example of the books flying off the shelves earlier. If that had been my bookshelf, I’d have been back night after night videoing and verifying it. I don’t think I’d be unique in this.

So the question is, why has this never happened to someone who can reliably expose and investigate it? In the last 5-10 years the world has been saturated with recording devices and the ability to communicate this kind of thing.

TuckerUK – Member

It’s extremely difficult (actually, nigh on impossible for me), to not be patronising (bordering on downright rude and dismissive) to adults that should know better spouting absolute nonsense. It’s 2013, and it’s not like the truth isn’t out there for everyone to discover.

We live in a bizarre society/world, if someone tells me the Queen is a shape-shifting lizard I can mock them openly, indeed, they could even be Sectioned under the Metal Health Act. However they talk about ghosts or gods or spirits, and apparently I should respect their views. Well I absolutely don’t. They are ignorant (meaning they don’t have knowledge). Er… no. You can fill Wembley Arena if you talk about those kinda things. It’s a fact the royals eat human body parts anyway, go look it up.
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F9q2w79pA4[/video]

molgrips – Member

See the example of the books flying off the shelves earlier. If that had been my bookshelf, I’d have been back night after night videoing and verifying it. I don’t think I’d be unique in this.

So the question is, why has this never happened to someone who can reliably expose and investigate it? In the last 5-10 years the world has been saturated with recording devices and the ability to communicate this kind of thing.
Electronic voice phenomena.

See the example of the books flying off the shelves earlier. If that had been my bookshelf, I’d have been back night after night videoing and verifying it. I don’t think I’d be unique in this.

So the question is, why has this never happened to someone who can reliably expose and investigate it? In the last 5-10 years the world has been saturated with recording devices and the ability to communicate this kind of thing.

Are you then saying that if you were to see video of this extraordinary event, you would believe it?

No, I would not have just posted it on youtube. I would have posted it on youtube to publicise it and invited scientists to come and research it, purely in the interests of finding out the truth myself.

If there is anything out there I really want to know. I’m just a little sceptical currently.

It’s fine being sceptical, but to be scientific, you have to have some idea of what you would consider to be evidence.
So, just to be clear, if you saw some video of it, on youtube, you wouldn’t believe in the phenomenon, right?

2. The person making the report is mistaken…… not possible, you’d have to have been there to understand

Entirely possible I’m afraid: friend hears a noise and says they thought it was a cat; they say something and you post-rationalise and fill in the gaps.

Or, you know, it was the spirit of your dead cat that was somehow able to manipulate the physical world.

It’s fine being sceptical, but to be scientific, you have to have some idea of what you would consider to be evidence.

Many people believe things without being able to state what evidence they believe. Instead, they trust that the scientific process works.

Could the average punter state the requirements to prove the existence of the Higgs boson? No. Should the average punter believe that it exists? Yes (well, with a confidence of 3,499,999 chances in 3,500,000).

Assuming your line of questioning is going somewhere productive Charlie, and I hope it is, then no I would not believe a youtube video.

It’s fine being sceptical, but to be scientific, you have to have some idea of what you would consider to be evidence.

Objective repeatable, measurable and capable of falsification/experimentation – you know the science stuff
Any effect that is demonstrated [ yes I know] under rigorous and controlled scientific experimental conditions. When these are applied the data is that their is nothing other than random noise – there are hundreds worldwide on the raandi site – my favourite was a woman who claimed that jesus gave her the power to make people wee in their pants – she was rather unclear as to why the Lord gave her this power. Needless to say under controlled conditions she failed to deliver

So, just to be clear, if you saw some video of it, on youtube, you wouldn’t believe in the phenomenon, right?

I am not sure a you tube video constitutes proof in the scientific sense

OK back to the stories. Much more fun.

A few years back my then partner ran a bookshop in a tiny building next to Shoreditch church. It was build out of the leftovers when the previous church was struck by lightening and was a gem of Georgian architecture. It was known as The Clerk’s House, number 118 1/2. It’s full of trendy fashion stuff now, but if you can get inside, go upstairs and look at the panelling (it’s there, under the emulsion). I was very fond of that space and ran a little gallery in it for a while.

Anyway, it had been empty for a while when G filled it up with books. And I wouldn’t describe it so much as haunted, as a bit tetchy. Every so often things would fly, sometimes books but mainly comics. I prefer rational explanations, so this was blamed on the heavy traffic which streamed past when Shoreditch High Street was six lanes wide, all thundering towards the City.

We were, however, quite perplexed as to how the shop managed to lock us out one night. It was early on in the tenancy and we spent ages trying to work out a sequence of events that would allow the keys in the mortice locks to be turned from the inside. The only way to get back was to unscrew them.

The most entertaining incident was when we installed a cd player and speakers in the upstairs room. A bit of Strauss for working late one night would simply not turn off. Well, we turned it off. It came back on. Off. On. Off. On. There’s a point (and this is where I’m with the people who don’t put their dodgy pelting bookcases under intense scrutiny) where you simply don’t want to have your rational, explicable world over-challenged. We were tired, it was chilly and late and we wanted to go home rather than poke at something which might be a hornet’s nest. So I looked at G and said, “Does it really matter? As long as it’s off by morning.” Which, of course, it was.

Musing on it, G noted that the house predated Strauss. Maybe it just wanted to hear the whole thing.

I believe that we’re human, we like to see patterns and tell stories and tell the ones that make the most sense – we’re also greater than the sum of our parts. I wouldn’t go as far as to say there’s definitely anything as prosaic as an afterlife. It just was a bit of an odd place.

Assuming your line of questioning is going somewhere productive Charlie, and I hope it is, then no I would not believe a youtube video.

Well, i’m trying to find out what you would call evidence.

You say, I don’t believe all this, how come no one ever videos it Then if someone were to video it, you’d still say, Pah, don’t believe it.

What do you actually want?

I am not sure a you tube video constitutes proof in the scientific sense

Fine, so tell me what does

Many people believe things without being able to state what evidence they believe. Instead, they trust that the scientific process works.

Sure, but you wouldn’t call those people ‘scientific’. They just have a belief in a certain wrold view

You say, I don’t believe all this, how come no one ever videos it Then if someone were to video it, you’d still say, Pah, don’t believe it.

Video would be enough preliminary evidence to get real experts in. I’m sure molgrips said this earlier, though that could be my psychic link with him again.

What do you actually want?

As Junkyard says, evidence that is “objective repeatable, measurable and capable of falsification/experimentation”.

Sure, but you wouldn’t call those people ‘scientific’. They just have a belief in a certain wrold view

I believe that DNA sequencing exists and works, but I’ve not done it myself. I trust that the publication and peer review process works.

That’s hardly a ‘belief’ on a par with ghost cats.

I think it’s pretty obvious that video doesn’t equal proof.

If you think someone saying “a youtube video isn’t proper scientific proof” is them being awkward then there’s not much hope….

If you think someone saying “a youtube video isn’t proper scientific proof” is them being awkward then there’s not much hope….

I agree, although i don’t quite see your point

I believe that DNA sequencing exists and works, but I’ve not done it myself. I trust that the publication and peer review process works.

That’s hardly a ‘belief’ on a par with ghost cats.

Well, it’s nearer that, than understanding how it works or why it works,

What do you even mean you believe it exists? Yes, i’ve done it myself, with a toothpick and a magnifying glass, so, yes, your belief is right!

As Junkyard says, evidence that is “objective repeatable, measurable and capable of falsification/experimentation”.

Like what?

Yes, i’ve done it myself, with a toothpick and a magnifying glass, so, yes, your belief is right!

You extracted and viewed some protein. That’s not quite sequencing the genome, which requires a little more effort than a toothpick and a magnifying glass. But presumably, you’d be satisfied that there’s enough evidence of DNA and its role without necessarily being able to formulate an experimental procedure yourself.

You raise an interesting point though. If the ghost of a recently deceased cat can communicate with the living, all that I need are enough cats, a hammer and a video camera and I can try it out for myself.

Although, living in a house where a suicide took place and where animals have more recently died, you’d think I, my wife or my kids would have noticed something ghostly by now.

Like what?

There are many people better qualified than I to create and run an experiment into ghosts, or many other things.

The book one would be relatively easy though.

Rebuild the shelves, fill them with books. Chuck various sensors in there. Wait.

If the books move without any motion or seismograph generators being triggered, ghosts*.

*maybe

You extracted and viewed some protein.

No, not at all, i actually sequenced it properly and i got some results.

The problem here is that you ask for evidence, but you don’t know what evidence looks like.
Waiting to see what others think is not a scientifc approach,any more than believing in ghost cats because someone said they saw some.

What do you actually want?

I didn’t mean to say ‘no-one ever videos it’ because there are loads of ‘ghost’ videos. What I meant was that no-one ever takes it further.

I’d be opening up my living room as a tourist attraction and making millions. I’d be challenging the world’s investigators to debunk it and selling the TV rights to Sky Living.

Or less cynically, if I had a solid reproducable unexplainable but real phenomenon, I’d spent a lot of time trying to figure out what was going on. Not just shrug and change the bookcase. But that’s all anyone ever seems to do…

I’d be opening up my living room as a tourist attraction and making millions. I’d be challenging the world’s investigators to debunk it and selling the TV rights to Sky Living.

Erm… Like exactly all the people who do precisely that?

No, not at all, i actually sequenced it properly and i got some results.

You determined the order of nucleotides within a DNA molecule using a toothpick and a magnifying glass? I’d assumed it was more complex than that.

The problem here is that you ask for evidence, but you don’t know what evidence looks like.

* Books moving, when other causes have been ruled out.
* A cat noise, inside a soundproofed room.

But we’d have to determine exactly what we were trying to prove first, wouldn’t we?

Waiting to see what others think is not a scientifc approach,any more than believing in ghost cats because someone said they saw some.

It’s not scientific to read the results published in a peer-reviewed journal and then try to recreate the results yourself? I’d say that is an integral part of the scientific process.

There’s a million dollar prize (plus fame and more) available for anyone able to “show, under proper observing conditions, evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power or event”.

oops wrong thread 😳

Erm… Like exactly all the people who do precisely that?

Who are they ?

But we’d have to determine exactly what we were trying to prove first, wouldn’t we?

You choose

Erm… Like exactly all the people who do precisely that?
Who are they ?

Seriously?

One Step Beyond (Alcoa Presents…) 1959-1961 Paranormal ABC
In Search Of… 1976–1982 Paranormal U.S. syndicated
Beyond Reason 1977-1980 Paranormal CBC (Canada)
Next Step Beyond (The) 1978-1979 Paranormal Syndicated
Arthur C. Clarke’s Mysterious World 1980 Paranormal U.K.
Arthur C. Clarke’s World of Strange Powers 1985 Paranormal A&E networks
Unsolved Mysteries 1987, 2001 Paranormal NBC, CBS
James Randi: Psychic Investigator 1991 Psychics U.K.
Haunted Lives/Real Ghosts 1991-1995
(mini-series [3 eps]) Ghosts CBS/UPN
Mysteries from Beyond the Other Dominion 1992-1993 Paranormal SyFy (SciFi)
Sightings 1992-1997 Paranormal Fox Network, Syfy, syndicated television
Extraordinary (The) 1993-1996
1994 Paranormal Seven Network (Australia)
U.S. version
Strange But True? 1993-1997 Paranormal ITV (U.K.)
Arthur C. Clarke’s Mysterious Universe 1994 Paranormal U.K.
Encounters: The Hidden Truth 1994 Paranormal Fox Channel
Ancient Mysteries 1994-1998 Paranormal History Channel/A&E
Histories Mysteries 1994-2006 Paranormal History Channel
Ghosthunters 1996 Ghosts Discovery Channel Europe
Strange Universe 1996 Paranormal UPN, syndicated television
Paranormal Borderline (The) 1996-1997 Paranormal UPN
Psi Factor: Chronicles of the Paranormal 1996-2000 Paranormal Canada
Unexplained (The) 1996-2000 Paranormal A&E Network, Biography Channel
Fortean TV 1997-1998 Paranormal U.K. Channel 4
Animal X 1997-2002 Cryptozoology Animal Planet
Beyond Belief: Fact or Fiction 1997-2002 Paranormal Fox
Haunted History 1998–2008 Ghosts History Channel, Biography Channel
Exploring the Unknown 1999 Paranormal Fox Kids
X Creatures (The) 1999 Cryptozoology BBC (U.K.)
Crossing Over with John Edward 1999–2004 Paranormal Sci-Fi Channel, Living TV (UK)
Encounters with the Unexplained 2000-2002 Paranormal PAX
Scariest Places on Earth 2000-2004 Ghosts ABC Family
MTV’s Fear 2000–2002 Ghosts MTV
Ghostwatch Live 2001 Ghosts U.K.
Out There TV 2001 Paranormal America One
Scary…But True 2001 Paranormal Syfy, YTV, Chiller
Truth or Scare 2001 – 2003 Paranormal Discovery Kids, The Hub
Haunted Hotels (America’s) -2001 Ghosts Travel Channel
6ixth Sense with Colin Fry 2002 Psychics Living TV (UK)
Critical Eye 2002 Paranormal Science Channel
Most Haunted Live! 2002 Ghosts Living TV (UK), Paranormal Channel (UK), Travel Channel
Scream Team 2002 Paranormal Living TV
Beyond with James vanPraagh 2002-2003 Psychics U.S. syndicated
Big Urban Myth 2002-2004 Paranormal MTV
Pet Psychic 2002-2004 Psychics Animal Planet
Mystery Hunters 2002-2006 Paranormal Discovery Networks, YTV
Mysterious Journeys 2002-2007 Paranormal Travel Channel
Scared! (on Staten Island) 2002-2009 Ghosts
Creepy Canada 2002–2006 Paranormal Canada
Most Haunted 2002–2010 Ghosts Living TV (UK), Paranormal Channel (UK), Travel Channel
Antiques Ghost Show (The) 2003 Ghosts Living TV (UK)
Penn & Teller’s Bullshit 2003-2010 Paranormal Showtime
Unexplained Mysteries 2003 Paranormal Syndicated television
Jane Goldman Investigates 2003-2004 Paranormal Living TV (UK)
Weird Travels 2003–2006 Paranormal Travel Channel
Proof Positive: Evidence of the Paranormal 2004 Paranormal SyFy
Psychic Detective with Tony Stockwell 2004 Psychics Living TV (U.K.)
I’m Famous and Frightened! 2004-2005 Ghosts Living TV (U.K.)
Weird U.S. 2004-2005 Paranormal History Channel
Dead Famous 2004-2006 Ghosts Living TV, Biography
Psychic Detectives 2004-2007 Psychics TruTV
UFO Files 2004-2007 Aliens/UFOs History Channel
Ghost Hunters 2004-current Ghosts Syfy
America’s Haunted Castles 2005 Ghosts Travel Channel
Derek Acorah’s Ghost Towns 2005 Ghosts Living TV (UK), Travel Channel
Dead Tenants 2005 Ghosts The Learning Channel
Enigma 2005 Paranormal Vision TV (Canada)
Girly Ghosthunters (The) 2005 Ghosts Canada
Haunted Houses: Tortured Souls & Restless Spirits 2005 Ghosts Biography Channel
Paranormal? 2005 Paranormal National Geographic Channel
Psychic Witness 2005-2006 Psychics TLC/Discovery
A Haunting 2005-2007 Ghosts Discovery Channel / Destination America
Beyond 2005-2007 Paranormal Canada
Is it Real? 2005-2007 Paranormal Nat Geo
Haunting Evidence 2005-2008 Paranormal Court TV/TruTV
Decoding the Past 2005-current Paranormal History Channel
Ghostly Encounters 2005-2011 Ghosts Viva/W Network (Canada), A&E Network, Biography Channel
Celebrity Paranormal Project 2006 Ghosts VH1
Haunted Homes 2006 Ghosts ITV
Haunted Lighthouses of America 2006 Ghosts Travel Channel
SciFi Investigates 2006 Paranormal SyFy
5th Dimension: Secrets of the Supernatural 2006 Paranormal Discovery
Unexplained Canada 2006 Paranormal Space
Extreme Ghost Stories 2006-2007 Ghosts ITV Granada WeTV (U.K.)
Ghost Trackers 2006-2008 Ghosts HBO, Discovery Kids Canada ,YTV
Psychic Investigators 2006-2009 Psychics Biography Channel
Ghosthunting with… 2006-2010 Ghosts ITV2 (U.K.)
Rescue Mediums 2006-2010 Psychics W Network (Canada)
Paranormal State 2006-2011 Paranormal A&E Network
America’s Psychic Challenge 2007 Psychics Lifetime
Investigations of the Unexplained 2007 Paranormal Travel Channel
Phenomenon / The Successor 2007 Psychic NBC
Spook School 2007-2008 Ghosts Unexplained Channel, Antix Productions
Monster Quest 2007-2010 Cryptozoology History Channel
Destination Truth 2007-current Paranormal SyFy
Ghost Hunters International 2008-2012 Ghosts Syfy
The Real Exorcist (Bob Larson) 2007 2008 2012 Demons Virgin 1 UK SciFi Lifetime
Paranormal Egypt 2008 Paranormal Travel Channel
The One 2008 and 2011 Psychic Seven Network (Aus)
Unexplained (The) with George Noory 2008 Paranormal SyFy
Living with the Dead 2008-2009 Ghosts U.K. CTV, syndicated
UFO Hunters 2008-2009 Aliens/UFOs History Channel
Ghost Adventures 2008-current Ghosts Travel Channel
Extreme Paranormal 2009 Ghosts A&E Network
Ghost Cases 2009 Ghosts (Canada)
Ghost Hunters Academy 2009 Ghosts Syfy
Ghost Intervention 2009 Ghosts TLC
Haunted (The) 2009 Ghosts Animal Planet
Nostradamus Effect 2009 Psychics History Channel
Othersiders (The) 2009 Ghosts Cartoon Network
Ghost Stories 2009 – current Ghosts Travel Channel
Most Terrifying Places in America 2009-2010 Paranormal Travel Channel
Ghost Lab 2009-2011 Ghosts Discovery Channel
Conspiracy Theory w/ Jesse Ventura 2009-2011 Conspiracy TruTV
Celebrity Ghost Stories 2009-current Ghosts Biography Channel
Fact Or Faked: Paranormal Files 2009-current Paranormal Syfy
Mystery Quest 2009 Paranormal History Channel
Psychic Kids 2009-2011 Psychics Biography Channel/A&E Network
River Monsters 2009-current Cryptozoology Animal Planet
American Paranormal 2010 Paranormal Nat Geo
Real and Chance: The Legend Hunters 2010 Paranormal VH1
Ancient X Files 2010-2011 Paranormal Nat Geo
Derren Brown Investigates 2010 Paranormal Ch. 4 (U.K.)
Freak Encounters 2010 Paranormal Animal Planet
Mary Knows Best 2010 Psychics SyFy
Paranatural 2010 Paranormal Nat Geo
Paranormal Cops 2010 Paranormal A&E Network
Pet Psychic Encounters 2010 Psychics Animal Planet
Weird or What 2010 Paranormal Discovery Channel
My Ghost Story 2010 Ghosts Biography Channel
Ancient Aliens 2010-current Aliens/UFO History Channel
Brad Meltzer’s Decoded 2010-current Conspiracy History Channel
Paranormal State: The New Class 2010 Paranormal A&E Network
Beast Hunter 2011 Cryptozoology Nat Geo
I Survived…Beyond and Back 2011 Miracles Biography Channel
Miracle Detectives 2011 Miracles OWN
Finding Bigfoot 2011-current Cryptozoology Animal Planet
Haunted Collector 2011-current Ghosts SyFy
Legend Quest 2011 Paranormal SyFy
From Beyond 2011 Paranormal Mun2
Paranormal Witness 2011 Paranormal SyFy
Long Island Medium 2011-current Psychics TLC
Celebrity Ghost Hunt (w/Chip Coffey) 2011 (pilot only) Ghosts Biography
Dark Matters: Twisted but True 2011-current Paranormal Science Channel
The Truth Behind… 2011 Paranormal Nat Geo
Paranormal Challenge 2011 Paranormal Travel Channel
Dead Files (The) 2011-current Psychics Travel Channel
Exorcist Files (The) 2012-cancelled Demons Discovery
Beyond Belief 2012 Miracles OWN
School Spirits 2012 Ghosts SyFy
Haunted Highway 2012-current Paranormal SyFy
Ghost Mine 2012 Paranormal SyFy
Chasing UFOs 2012 Aliens/UFOs Nat Geo
Conspiracy Road Trip 2012 Conspiracy BBC3 (UK)
Professor Weird 2012 Paranormal Science Channel
Paranormal Paparazzi 2012 Paranormal Travel Channel
Cursed 2012 Paranormal Biography
UFOs: The Untold Stories 2012 Aliens/UFO Nat Geo
Haunted Encounters: Face to Face 2012 Paranormal Biography
Unsealed: Conspiracy Files 2012- Conspiracy CW?
Unsealed: Alien Files 2012- Aliens/UFO CW?
The Haunting Of… 2012-current Paranormal Biography
Stranded 2013 Paranormal SyFy
Deep South Paranormal 2013 Paranormal SyFy
Alien Mysteries 2013 Aliens/UFO Discovery Canada and Destination America
Monsters and Mysteries in America 2013 Cryptozoology Destination America
Killer Contact 2013 Paranormal SyFy
Joe Rogan Questions Everything 2013 Paranormal SyFy
Psychic Tia 2013 Psychics A & E
The Unexplained Files 2013 Paranormal Science Channel
Stalked by a Ghost 2013 Paranormal Biography
Ghost Bait 2013 Paranormal Biography
Mountain Monsters 2013- Cryptozoology Destination America
When Ghosts Attack 2013 Paranormal Destination America
Buyer Beware In development Paranormal SyFy
Ghost Town, USA In development Paranormal SyFy
Deadfinder In development Paranormal SyFy
10 Million Dollar Big Foot Bounty In development Cryptozoology Spike

You choose

why?
I would have to think this was a serious conversation

You determined the order of nucleotides within a DNA molecule using a toothpick and a magnifying glass? I’d assumed it was more complex than that.

Well, when you have a non scientific approach, the assumption is your only tool

Derek Acora

seriously ?

Erm… Like exactly all the people who do precisely that?

well.. Not precisely.

There are people who sell general spookiness, but a repeatable hard physical phenomenon would be a little different I feel.

Whatever I would eventually decide upon, I certainly would not ignore it. The chance to revolutionise our knowledge of the world and possibly our species should not be passed up on.

You choose
why?
I would have to think this was a serious conversation

Well, it started out that way, but this is how i see it now

Dude saw some spooky shit

Nah no way don’t believe in that stuff

Why not?

I only believe in science and stuff, i’m a scientist me. I wanna see evidence?

What evidence do you want?

For what?

Huh? For this stuff we’ve been talking about, any of it