Lance, latest have we done it yet.

I’m sure Millar started his ‘confession’ by saying he had taken epo just the once which was coincidentally the time he was caught….just saying….

A very sad note to leave a long career on. I know plenty won’t but I do have some sympathy for him.

they can test my samples from Paris-Roubaix and my Olympic medals for the next thousand years, they’re not going to find anything.

That means nothing. EPO glowtime is short.

they can test my samples from Paris-Roubaix and my Olympic medals for the next thousand years, they’re not going to find anything.

Doesn’t really say anything either about what might be going on out of competition where doping has a major benefit to how hard you can train and recover.

Some interesting names in that list though. The numbers involved do kind of back up the phrase “two speed peloton”.

That sounds like bs to me convert…..Millar is quite clear about his drug use in his book the bloke is a complete tool IMO.

Interesting about Stu O’Grady…..hardly surprising though considering the era he rode in…cast doubt over his biggest wins though unfortunately. I wonder if everyone’s favourite bloke and lala’s best mate ‘Big Jensie’ ever doped?

Jonathan Vaughters tweeted the other day, something like “well, you could test my sample from the 1999 Dauphine and it would come up negative, but…”

One interesting thing this all implies is that the claims that 99 was much cleaner than 98, but Lance’s team spoiled the “tour of redemption” thing and were wildly at it, have some validity

all professional sports will attract ‘cheats’– its the money/fame ting– and i suppose once you start on that road, you may as well get an F1 car and go as fast as you can. One thing, these people are invariably caught,eventually. Other sports have a long way to go…

Woody: that crankpunk thing is a great summary of how I feel about matters too.

On another thread I kept asking ‘what is so different this time?’. I still don’t know the answer…

anagallis_arvensis: yeah, I was going to link the CN story about the 98 Tour tests… Yup, that’s when Armstrong was out of the picture, so doping took place before and after.

And ‘just took it the once…’ aye, stroll on Stuey! Millar changed his tune from his ‘just the once’ when first popped but ‘beefed it up’ a bit in his book. Come to think of it, weren’t Millar and Stuey big mates in Nice?

Of course they were. And who was Millar having dinner with when the Police came to call? None other than our old friend Dave “looks younger every year” Brailsford. Perhaps the man most responsible for the Growth in British Cycling?

Hey lets throw some mud and hope it sticks

To quote Wiggins on this

“I say they’re just f****** w******. I cannot be doing with people like that. It justifies their own bone-idleness because they can’t ever imagine applying themselves to do anything in their lives.

“It’s easy for them to sit under a pseudonym on Twitter and write that sort of s***, rather than get off their a***s in their own lives and apply themselves and work hard at something and achieve something. And that’s ultimately it. C****

Now granted you are all being a little more critical in your thinking but this is all like the gamblers fallacy

Past behaviour has no impact on future behaviour

Yes some cyclists cheated but that doe snot mean this lot are and having dinner with Millar and some other lazy slur about looking younger is as far from evidence as one can get

Why not produce some evidence or stop watching

LA was a cheat, Large portions of the peleton cheated in the past

Has anyone any evidence to suggest this is occurring now ?

No but it wont stop threads like this

Lance did nothing the others werent doing.

The problem is that he has held himself up as the poster boy for miraculous turnarounds….beat cancer and won the TdF….established a charity swollen with hundreds of millions of dollars in it’s coffers….friend of politicians….chat show celebrity….best selling autobiography etc etc….its quite a fall from grace and its why we are all still fascinated by it.

Read Paul Kimmage’s account of his brief career in professional cycling, he was very much the odd man out in the teams he rode for in that he didnt dope….it was a different era and stimulants were the name of the game back then the mindset is the same.

Read Willy Voet’s book about how team managers and soignuers were complicit in the doping of the riders.

Read Millar’s book….again he was the odd man out for not doping.

Read Tyler Hamilton’s book, those who chose not to use PEDs achieved virtually nothing in the sport….in that era the choice was simple, take PEDs and have a chance of a career or opt out and struggle to make a living.

The drug problem in cycling was present before LA became a dominant figure.

The Festina affair highlighted how involved the teams were….slush funds for PEDs, refrigerators in team cars for EPO etc etc….

The deaths of young european cyclists in the early 90s before the dangers of EPO were fully understood.

The virtual admission by Dr Ferrari in 1994 when his Gewiss team took a clean sweep of the Fleche-Wallone race….”EPO is not dangerous, its the abuse that is”….

Look at the arse kicking LA and his team got when they first came to europe, they were nowhere….they were not up to speed with doping practices and were annihilated, it took the hiring of Ferrari before they started to see results.

Ferrari, Fuentes etc had client lists as long as your arm….plenty were doping and on a massive scale pre the LA era.

Perhaps the men who really ruined cycling for the innocent are DRs Conconi and Ferrari who researched and virtually state sponsored the doping of Italian cyclist in the late 80s and early 90s.

People who should know these things say that Riis had a heamatocrit reading of 60%+ when he won the TdF in 1996….that is outrageous and yet he keeps his title!….when there are blatant double standards applied like this its not hard to see why LA feels hard done by.

There is a certain amount happening which backs up his claims that he is being used as a scapegoat.

The current trend of cyclists retiring and then giving a tearful confession to previous doping makes me want to puke…..if they do that then take all their titles away too.

The sport was a doping free for all for the best part of 20 years and it is ridiculous to blame one man for that.

Lance did nothing the others werent doing.

Not everyone cheated no matter how many times someone says they were all at it they were not only the cheats were
You even go to quote others who mentioned there were honest non cheating riders

The sport was a doping free for all for the best part of 20 years and it is ridiculous to blame one man for that

As far as I am aware no one is blaming LA for evything are they ? However LA likes to try and garner some sympathy by suggesting he is somehow a victim in all of this or the scapegoat….its utter utter BS though it keeps getting pedalled
He was the top man in terms of performance, cheating lying, litigation, bullying and BS …are you really surprised they “went after him”?

It like the top mafia don complaining he was scapegoated because they never got any other mafiosa.

According to USADA Lance was part of the “biggest and most sophisticated doping program in sport” and its not just him they went after, its the DS, the doctors etc.

Seems fair though that the guy who gained the most from doping is also the guy that lost the most.

Sure it is slighlty unfair that only 44 people got named from 98 while others just happend not to get tested that year are still in their jobs but my view is “tough shit! You should have though about that when you cheated.”

In my view it is essential we keep going after the cheats of the past even if we can’t condem them all, not because we get some sick pleasure from the big names of the past getting their comeupence but because it is a deternet against doping now. A young rider may know he can beat the tests now but what about when he retires, the only way you can be sure you won’t get done is to not do it in the first place.

Lance deserves everything he gets and he should get special treatment for not only cheating but being the bigest hypocrit about it and continuing to lie.

crazy-legs – Member
Don’t kid yourself, everyone was involved

?????

According to USADA Lance was part of the “biggest and most sophisticated doping program in sport” and its not just him they went after, its the DS, the doctors etc.

I think a bit of sexing up of the report there by USADA. Bigger than the East German state sponsored programme? I’d bet most American Football teams (where there is no testing at all) have much bigger and more sophisticated programmes too.

I think a bit of sexing up of the report there by USADA. Bigger than the East German state sponsored programme? I’d bet most American Football teams (where there is no testing at all) have much bigger and more sophisticated programmes too.

Yeah, they had to say that to justify the amount of money they’d spent on pursuing the case.
Willing to bet that not even USADA thought that things would get this deep though!

I’d bet most American Football teams (where there is no testing at all) have much bigger and more sophisticated programmes too.

You’d hope so. If it’s not tested then it’s mandatory.

I think a bit of sexing up of the report there by USADA.

Flying round Europe in private jets and helicopters, hiring Italian doctors for millions, bribing the sports governing body, winning the worlds biggest anual sporting event 7 times on the trot, becoming one of Nike’s biggest names, defrauding the US government, putting up the cancer sheild, beating hundreds of other dopers by doping more and better, evading a testing regime that although lacking did actually catch a lot of other big names…

I’d say they didn’t have to do much sexing up. Giving a few meatheads some steriods becuase nobody is watching doesn’t really come close.

mrblobby – Member

According to USADA Lance was part of the “biggest and most sophisticated doping program in sport” and its not just him they went after, its the DS, the doctors etc.

I think a bit of sexing up of the report there by USADA. Bigger than the East German state sponsored programme? I’d bet most American Football teams (where there is no testing at all) have much bigger and more sophisticated programmes too. I’ve heard (but obv don’t know) that it’s the opposite in NFL – because there is no serious drug testing there has been no pressure to develop sophisticated regimes to evade it. So the level of PED use is about what you’d find at a local gym – simple tried and tested steroid cycles.

Flying round Europe in private jets and helicopters, hiring Italian doctors for millions, bribing the sports governing body, winning the worlds biggest anual sporting event 7 times on the trot, becoming one of Nike’s biggest names, defrauding the US government, putting up the cancer sheild, beating hundreds of other dopers by doping more and better, evading a testing regime that although lacking did actually catch a lot of other big names…

Well yes, the results of the doping programme and the means by which it was covered up, pretty spectacular. However I think the actual doping programme (by which i mean what was taken and how much) was pretty conservative from what I’ve read.

Watch the NatGeo program on him, it’s more than just taking the drugs, according to them he snitched up ex members of his team when they moved to other teams, put lots of pressure on whistle blowers and in his confession on Oprah was careful to only admit to stuff outside of the statue of limitations.

I follow Lance on Facebook, and he can’t even post “lovely weather today” without people bombarding him with abuse and obscenities.
I’m not for a moment condoning his awful behavior, but people need to let go…

and stop following his every word and friending him on FB

FinishedTFY

Well yes, the results of the doping programme and the means by which it was covered up, pretty spectacular. However I think the actual doping programme (by which i mean what was taken and how much) was pretty conservative from what I’ve read.

Have you been reading Lance’s twitter?

He may have been conservative in being careful not to get caught but he was on every drug under the sun with bags of blood to boot. Lots of evidence for this including his own confession.

Have you been reading Lance’s twitter?

Haha, no! Never was a fan of Lance. Based that mostly on what teammates and said and what was in the report.

Based that mostly on what teammates and said and what was in the report.

The report had to be deliberately conservative in it’s accusations as it could only accuse him of stuff where enough evidence existed for it to stand up in court.

Read Tyler Hamiltons book, listen to Oprah, read the various other accounts etc. The basic trend is the Lance was engaged in a doping arms race of who could get the most juiced. But the sophistication comes with the blood transfusions, that is not a simple thing to get right. Look at Ricco nearly killing himself, Vino getting caught with someone else’s blood, Tyler getting ill and then caught etc.

Lances program was good enough to win and not get caught. Pretty sophisticated if you ask me.

In yet another twist to Lance Armstrong’s on-going legal saga, a Texas judge has ordered the disgraced former pro cyclist to answer questions under oath about his doping.

The answers could prove explosive. Acceptance Insurance Holding is suing Armstrong in relation to bonuses it paid him from 1999 to 2001. The company wants to know when Armstrong’s associates and cycling officials including International Cycling Union (UCI) president Pat McQuaid knew of his doping.

http://road.cc/content/news/92769-texas-judge-orders-lance-armstrong-answer-questions-about-doping

Names under oath.[/url]

The most significant being Philippe Maire.

Johan Bruyneel gets 10-year ban

I’m loving his whataboutery at the end (the recourse of all the LA apologists it seems).