Lance, latest have we done it yet.

Away from cycling – Marion Jones, Tim Montgomery, Jason Giambi, Bill Romanowski and Barry Bonds.

All high profile US sports stars of the same era who were guilty of doping, yet returned no positive tests.

He has refused to let stored samples be tested for the drugs for some reason.

I’m not sure you can read anything into this really- why would he? He could argue that who knows what’s happened to those samples or who’s had access to them since he gave them?

Tom B – Member

Which of Lance’s teammates have ever tested positive then Hora?
I’m not Hora, but there was:

Actual positive tests:
Tyler Hamilton
Floyd Landis
Roberto Heras
Peter Meinert Nielsen
Manuel Beltran

Other incidents:
Pavel Padrnos (arrested in San Remo doping raids)
Benoit Joachim (nandralone – later aquitted on a technicality)

Later admissions:
Frankie Andreu
Jonathan Vaughters

Let me get this straight. If he had to go to arbitration- The USADA can find Lance guilty on the basis of dopers giving evidence against him who are looking for a lesser sentance (but with an obvious personal axe to grind) with NO chemical proof at all?

You mean if i went to court and all they had was lots of witnesses [ some of whom had done a plea bargain] seeing me do the crime but no actual proof i could be found guily
HOW IS THAT FAIR 🙄

He could be stripped and classed as a doper even though he never failed a test? WTF.

HE has twice and why wont he let his stored samples be retested Sherlock.
One for cortisone with a backdated medical cert for saddle sores – not disputed by LA. Once and ot wa covered up and this is all allegged but LA did donate £100 K to UCI at the time the claim is made

How is that fair? First Cancer attacked him, then this. That man has had to fight most of his adult life and you wonder why he has an abrasive character to some?

OH FFS can we leave your bromance and hyperbole from the thread which was largely rational till you entered.

I cannot be asrsed diseecting the rest of you fanboy drivel. No one hates LA we just think he cheated.
I really wonder WTF you know about road racing as you only appear in threads to defend LA- not on TdF threads are you . As i say he has awesome appeal to non cyclists who put him on a pedestal due to his hype and their ignorance

Right, but the 10 men are his team mates.. So even if they are tainted by drug use (& are lying) then we are left with the situation with Lance’s entire team, including his right hand man, are on drugs & he is the only one who isn’t?

Well he hand picked them so not his fault and everyone knows that LA was not a control freak and quit elax about stuff so he could not possible have known. I think they had to cheat just to suck on his wheell …that is it innit Hora?

He has refused to let stored samples be tested for the drugs for some reason.
I’m not sure you can read anything into this really- why would he? He could argue that who knows what’s happened to those samples or who’s had access to them since he gave them?

Well he could argue that but he could not prove it as they will have records of the storage. If you were clean and you knew a test existed for the drug everyone said you had taken why would you refuse as it would make all this go away for ever and leave some egg on many people’s faces including mine. Are you really suggesting LA is refusing the opportunity to have actual proof and is resisting the opportunity to smugly ram the evidence of his innocence down people throats …You would need to be quite naive to think that he is refusing this opportunity.

FWIW he always says never failed a drug test not I ever cheated. As noted many athletes of that era cheated and were never caught both in other sports and in cycling – Pantani never failed a drug test in pro cycling either.

I think they had to cheat just to suck on his wheell …that is it innit Hora?

Which comes back to that old argument….if they were ALL cheating – he was either on double-smack or **** better than everyone in those tours.

Wait what? Are you going from saying he didn’t dope to he was the bestest of all the dopers?

If that’s the case, he should admit it and we can all move on

They weren’t all cheating though. Its pretty safe to say that Evans was clean back then…his 8th place one year would actually become first non subsequently banned rider if LA gets popped.

….and the old sage of ‘they were all at it so he must have been better’ is just a ridiculous arguement. Surely different people will react in different ways to doping, LA had the biggest budget in cycling so would have had the best program available too, plus some are willing to take more risks with their health with regards to doping than others.

he should admit it and we can all move on

To bitterly hating someone else?

I dont think ‘smack’ would enhance performance – except the rotting of the body from the inside – out.

Hora – you are arguing from ignorance again as your are assuming that everyone reacts the same to EPO. Unfortunately it has different affects on different people so he may have just be more enhanced by it that others.
It will remain an awesome achievement whether clean or dirty yes but that does not mean if everyone was clean he could still have done it.

I rather hope, like a monkey at a keyboard, if you keep it up you will get something right
EDIT:

To bitterly hating someone else?

Well i dont like drug cheats who have built an empire/cult of personality out of a life, is this a flaw? 🙄

I bow down to your cycling paperback semi-novel and cycling internet site Journalists reading.

On a more serious note, given the likely level of corruption that exists/ed within the UCI/US Cycling et al, surely News Corp were doing some of their own ‘research’ at the time? Has anyone asked Leveson?

Hora, am I meant to re order that post to make a coherent sentence?

To bitterly hating someone else?

Well, if that makes you feel better, all good. Because you have a polarised opinion that can’t be shifted, don’t assume the rest of us do. I don’t hate him, I think that someone who has built his career on a lie deserves what comes to them and all the blame shifting, evasion and excuses in the world won’t change that.

Landis and Hamilton doped, were caught and then went through increasingly lame attempts to avoid admitting what they did. They’ve now paid for what they did when they could have copped for it much earlier and possibly continued to have a career (like Millar for example). Lance has also avoided that opportunity so if there’s proof, he’s fair game.

Now, how about you answer my question about what a load of un-caught dopers would have to benefit from by confessing and implicating Lance?

You sir are a buffoon.

And you’re a cockweasel. What of it?

Which of Lance’s teammates have ever tested positive

Contador?

Which of Lance’s teammates have ever tested positive

alex222 – Member
Contador?

Ha – good one. It’s easy to forget.

I think now would be good time to apologise for starting this thread.

It will remain an awesome achievement whether clean or dirty yes

No.
Mostly, you’re speaking sense, mostly.
But I can’t disagree more with this bit above. Being the best “cheat” is not an awesome achievement, more like the lowest of the low, representing everything that was wrong with the sport.
Take someone like Ben Johnson, the cheat.
OK, later it’s discovered that he was far from the only one cheating in that race. He’s still a cheat, no better.

But being the best cheat 7 times in a row is still impressive but of course I get your point and it is a good one. i suppose I was more trying to counter the point that i hate LA which I dont I just hate the way he has built an empire/legacy on this clean image which is unlikely to be true IMHO.
I feel sorry for Cadel – how many would he have won as he was clean.

None of Lance’s teamates got caught.

A lot (almost all?) of Lance’s ex team mates have either subsequently be caught, confessed or are rumoured to be witnesses in his trial.

His never tested positive BS is just that. A look back through the archives shows a lot of the people who have been caught have not been caught by positive tests. Operation Puerto, confesions, syringes found etc but not a whole heap of positive tests.

It seems naive to sugest he didn’t dope.

But it isn’t necessary to maintain this falacy to preserve his legacy. He was still the best bike rider of his generation. They were all doped up to the eyeballs and Lance still won, trying to claim he was clean is the only surefire way of destroying the legacy.

This argument is cyclic.

Why not wait for him to have been caught with actual evidence.

Post this. If he isn’t found guilty – will the cynics put it to bed?

Which of Lance’s teammates have ever tested positive

alex222 – Member
Contador?

Ha – good one. It’s easy to forget.

If he isn’t found guilty – will the cynics put it to bed?

Probably depends why he is found not guilty. But probably not.

Will the fanbois change their mantra if he is found guilty? Probably not.

But at least the rest of us will be able to move on with the cycling we can watch today.

eh alex222?

Will the fanbois change their mantra if he is found guilty

If he was found to have a positive test I will be crest-fallen.

He has a positive test Hora….at about the same time as he donated a lot of money to the UCI to help them to catch out dopers.

He has a positive test

I asked on a previous page for a source, no one has yet responded?

Personally, I’m more interested in the UCI’s position in all this than I am in whether LA gets his comeuppance or not.

There are lots of rumours that if this gets to a hearing with witness testimony, the UCI is screwed. I’d like to see the back of the crony-ism and wheeler-dealer promotional tactics. Seeing that weasel give out the medals at the olympics was cringe-worthy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/8530063/Lance-Armstrong-denies-claims-as-Tyler-Hamilton-alleges-seven-time-Tour-de-France-winner-tested-positive-in-2001.html

Tyler Hamilton and apparently George Hincapie too have testified it (I’d guess that this will come out if LA decides to contest the doping charges) A link was posted to the source of the 100k Euro payment claim on Bike Radar a while back….I can’t find it now if I’m honest-it may even have been a Livestrong fund transfer?

I’ll admit that i’ve only skim read half this thread but those banging on about positive tests, have you heard of the biological passport? Positive tests are not needed to convict anyone of cheating, just ask Franco Pellozotti, and USADA say that the values they have from Lances BP from his 2010 come back are consistent with blood manipulation and they are that sure that it’ll stand up that they are happy to go to arbitration, AND they have witnesses to testify to his doping in the TdF wining years.

If he was found to have a positive test I will be crest-fallen.

How about if a court finds that the evidence of the witnesses is compelling enough to find him guilty?

Oh and Lance paid 100k USD to the UCI so they could buy a blood testing machine. It was around the time when Hamilton says he tested positive.

That Telegraph piece gives an indication of what sort of storm is brewing for LA…

I cannot see any way he comes out of this “clean”. Even if no personal use allegations stick, there is still the public money / use of drugs for the wider team that he led.

If accepted, I hope he goes to jail TBH. The drug tests / failures / use / denial is one thing. Some of the other aspects start to look very much like simple criminal corruption…

You gotta dance like Lance man, spinners are winners.

You gotta dance like Lance man, spinners are winners.

love the irony – I presume you are not talking about “spin”

I can’t believe Lance is doing Ironman.

eh alex222?

Sorry I thought you were suggesting that Contador can be forgotten as a fairly damming ex team mate.

For what is worth I think they should drop it the whole thing. Even if he did they never caught him at it so they were too slow; same goes for Contador’s ban really.

I can believe you get an iron man about lance
Alex – obvious troll is obvious

I can’t believe you wouldn’t give a refund