Jeremy Corbyn

The picture might not work but the link certainly does.

And from the article:

The truth is that no modern politician has been more consistent or more prescient when it comes to Putin than Corbyn. Far from being pro-Putin, Corbyn warned against him when others didn’t.

And from the interview this week:

Pouring arms in isn’t going to bring about a solution, It’s only going to prolong and exaggerate this war,” he asserted

He is wrong here. When he says ‘pouring arms in’ he’s talking about arming Ukraine. And a failure to do that will allow Putin to stomp all over the country, pushing his imperial, fascist regime upon even more innocent civilians, and allowing him to think he’s right.

And therefore, there has to be more much more effort put into peace

This is hand-waving guff. It’s completely hollow. He offers no ideas, apart from a) not arming Ukraine and b) asking Mr Putin not to be a fascist.

I agree with Corbyn on some stuff, and did vote for him to be Labour leader in 2015 – but I think he’s hopelessly in the wrong on this.

And – as noted in that tweet thread – he’s also completely ignoring the wishes of the Ukrainian people:

⚡️ Poll: 84% of Ukrainians are against peace with Russia if it involves territorial concessions.

According to a Kyiv International Institute of Sociology (KIIS) survey published on July 27, only 10% of Ukrainians are ready for some territorial concessions.

— The Kyiv Independent (@KyivIndependent) July 27, 2022

Seems odd then that’s he’s willing to appear on a news channel that is pretty Pro Russian in it’s coverage of Ukraine, and has repeatedly been accused of being funded by Hezbollah and of being a front for Iranian propaganda, supports the Syrian government, and has been accused of spreading anti-Semitic disinformation about the Panama Papers. I’m sure his reasons are legitimate.

But as Peter Oborne points out in your linked article Corbyn is a “failed politician whose time as a major player in British politics is over”  We should probably just ignore it as attention seeking; like his brother.

Btw this is the interview which is being referred to:

https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/exclusive:-arms-flow-to-ukraine-will-not-bring-peace—corby

Personally I can’t see anything in it which I would disagree with.

Obviously people like Boris Johnson are very unlikely to agree, preferring no doubt more war-war and less jaw-jaw.

 preferring no doubt more war-war and less jaw-jaw.

The Ukrainians certainly seem to want more war-war and less jaw-jaw. Perhaps we should help them fight off an imperialist aggressor?

Actually 85% of Ukrainians don’t want a negotiated peace that involves giving up territory.

has been accused of spreading anti-Semitic disinformation

Hardly a damning condemnation. Anyone who expresses any support for the Palestinian people, who ironically are Semites, will at some point be accused of being anti-Semitic.

Chris York writes for a magazine whose owner denounced David Cameron for calling Gaza a prison camp, which many fair-minded people consider to be an apt description.

 Anyone who expresses any support for the Palestinian people, who ironically are Semites, will at some point be accused of being anti-Semitic.

No, it’s nothing to do with support for Palestine, it’s to do with George Soros and the Panama Papers revelations. This news channel like other such insightful and legitimate sights like influencers supporting QAnon were spreading disinformation about Soros as a way of confusing the story

The whole topic of the Ukraine war has its own thread, this isn’t the place to discuss it.

I see nothing in the interview which Corbyn gave that I would fundamentally disagree with.

There is no evidence that Corbyn supports Putin, a man with links with hard-right and conservative organisations throughout the world, and whose oligarchs have bankrolled the Tory Party, not the Labour Party.

Corbyn is a “failed politician whose time as a major player in British politics is over”

And yet people still can’t resist the baseless smears, even if it means reviving a thread which everyone had thought had died long ago.

To be fair it is to Corbyn’s credit that his enemies still feel it is necessary to maintain the attacks on him.

I think in this he’s a voice of sanity. Just, unfortunately, it’s an insane situation and being a voice of sanity is just not useful. Probably 99% of the time sanity is the best option and our recent insane politics has been totally the wrong option but that 1% is a really important 1%

edit—- pointless snark

And I wonder if he had been around in the 1930s whether he would have been accused of being a fascist sympathizer?

But I think we probably all know the answer to that question.

Jeremy Corbyn has always been a pacifist who has been anti-war and anti-everything that is around war and occupation, he’s been that way since forever and isn’t going to change his principles, which is probably why he was just never going to win any elections, he has principles and won’t forget about them to gain votes, which in politics is just not a good thing when you see the success the likes of Boris and Truss are having these days.

I think the Ukraine situation and the whole stop the war thing was just a no win situation for him and his followers, there was only two realistic outcomes, a big land based war, or an occupation akin to the olden USSR days, neither of which Corbyn is a fan off.

The whole topic of the Ukraine war has its own thread, this isn’t the place to discuss it.

Rubbish, if it’s relevant it can be discussed – or at least that’s your defence when you keep raising Starmer on every bloody Tory thread

I think the Ukraine situation and the whole stop the war thing was just a no win situation for him and his followers, there was only two realistic outcomes, a big land based war, or an occupation akin to the olden USSR days, neither of which Corbyn is a fan off.

I think this is a reasonable summary – and it illustrates the limitations of his position in cases like this.

Rubbish, if it’s relevant it can be discussed

Fine, if you think that this is the correct thread to discuss the Ukraine war then crack on. I am not a mod.

Personally I won’t be using this thread to engage in an in-depth discussion about the Ukraine and what the alleged 85% of the population do or don’t support. That was my point, but you carry on.

why do you throw your toys out of the pram when someone exhibits the same behaviour that you do?

Is that ^^ aimed at me? There is no toy throwing going on, I’m just saying that I’m not really interested discussing indepth the Ukraine war – if I was I would do it on the Ukraine war thread.

And by the looks of it nor is anyone else. So what is the problem, and why would it involve a pram and some toys?

Has the dreadful old narcissist Magic Grandad been missing the attention, despite the cult members/sixth formers/PFJ all tweeting him every day to remind him that he’s some kind of messiah, so he thought he’d pop back and remind us all how utterly detached from reality he is?

Thought so

Carry on…

Could it be that the reason that some people are so venomous when Jeremy Corbyn is mentioned is that for many he represented hope…

Instead we witnessed the lengths the powers that be will go to to crush those that threaten real change to the system

Instead we witnessed the lengths the powers that be will go to to crush those that threaten real change to the system

I think it’s childish to resort to “actors off stage” and “conspiracies in the corridors of power” to explain the failure of Corbyn when the more obvious reasons are staring us all in the face. in 2019 lots of the electorate (for whatever reason) found Corbyn not to their liking, The manifesto was largely held to be unbelievable (the free broadband was a disaster on the doorstep) he (and the labour front bench) was unclear about what they stood for over Brexit, They took the votes of northern working class people for granted, and the election campaign was poor.

That’s it, no conspiracy needed.

This thread was specifically revived to spread the patently false claim that Corbyn supports Putin.

This persistent false smear has been exposed as such by Peter Oborne, a man who is clearly not a huge Corbyn fan and, as you have pointed out Nick, he has labelled him a “failed politician”.

Far from being a Putin fan Corbyn consistently warned of the dangers posed by Putin whilst other senior UK politicians either remained silent or cosied up to him and his russian oligarchs.

Which makes his appearance on a news channel that is one of the very few outside of Russia who are outwardly and predominately vocal in their support of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine all the more odd, given his history of condemnation of Putin, no?

I mean surely the response to an invitation from them would be a polite; no thanks.

“actors off stage” and “conspiracies in the corridors of power”

Aye, sound…

Struck by the disinterest in the Forde report among establishment journalists given its findings, so ran some searches and made a chart. pic.twitter.com/QsAQiyndqk

— Tom Mills (@ta_mills) July 26, 2022

That’s it, no conspiracy needed.

Aside from it has the obvious flaw in your theory of “in 2019 lots of the electorate (for whatever reason) found Corbyn not to their liking”
So how exactly did they conclude that? Did they meet him or was it what they read and heard on the news?
This is latest story is a great example really. The rather curious distilling of what he said into headlines designed to get people frothing.
Seems accurate in saying that just pouring weapons in is unlikely to end the war as opposed to having it just drag on as a stalemate (at least till Putin dies/removed from office and his replacement can use it as a handy excuse to end things) unless some diplomatic solution is found. I have doubts about one being found but its certainly worth some effort investing.

Corbyn put his faith in the Minsk agreement, and Putin not being worse than he thought, when that fell apart it just left two options, neither of which are really palatable for a pacifist.

The reality is that if Russia were to win and occupy Ukraine, history would repeat itself, tens of thousands would ‘disappear’, just like a lot of those in areas Russia occupies at present, Ukrainians aren’t daft, they know it’s either run or fight, the fact that the western world was shocked at the way this invasion happened tells a story, history will hopefully not look too kindly on the likes of Putin and Lukashenko.

So how exactly did they conclude that?

It’s only one part of the reason why Labour failed in 2019. do you think they had a coherent Brexit strategy? Did you think they were a untied party ready for govt? Do you not think that they took great swathes of the populations vote for granted – and Corbyn was especially unpopular up here as the sort of I-Know-Best busybody out of touch London elite.

The problem I have with any conspiracy is the fact that it beguiles people to stop thinking about what actually went wrong. No one thinks Ed Miliband was a spectacular success, no one really thinks that Starmer is doing an amazing job, by excusing Corbyn’s very obvious flaws who was both failed by his party and in turn failed to be a leader, those of us who claim to support Labour (our at the very least prefer them to the Tories) stop thinking coherently about how we should be doing better. There’s more that unites us, etc etc.

This thread was specifically revived to spread the patently false claim that Corbyn supports Putin.

I imagine it was revived as he’s back in the news so is the appropriate place to discuss the story? I could be miles off of course?

he’s back in the news

Is he? I wasn’t aware.

He’s in the news because of the same issue that pretty much made him unelectable, he sticks to his principles and doesn’t really care about the publicity side of it, or that those who dislike him can use it as a way of demonising him, which they have in this instance. Corbyn has throughout his life fought against wars and oppression, both of which the Ukraine are suffering from because of Putin, so i’d seriously doubt he’s a huge fan of Putin or any of his ilk.

YYYAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNNNNN!

he sticks to his principles and doesn’t really care about the publicity side of it

It’s true, imagine having a PM who has principles and sticks to them. We’re clearly not ready for that sort of thing.

He’s in the news because…..

Fair enough, I must have missed it. Any links to the news stories which focus on Corbyn?

Edit: Just found this in the guardian.

The Guardian: Jeremy Corbyn urges west to stop arming Ukraine.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/02/jeremy-corbyn-urges-west-to-stop-arming-ukraine

Seems like some reasonable comments, whether or not you totally agree with them. Nothing in it suggests support for Putin.

The story doesn’t seem to be carried by major news providers such as Sky or the BBC, although I could be wrong.

For someone fighting desperately against this so called conspiracy theory you arent half doing a good job of supporting the basic claims.

Did you think they were a untied party ready for govt?

Ermm you mean like the Labour establishment were doing their best to undermine him?

Do you not think that they took great swathes of the populations vote for granted

Not really no. Hence the problem with the brexit strategy trying to appeal to all people. Now if you applied this to the centrists you might have a point. Sadly though they havent learnt this lesson.

and Corbyn was especially unpopular up here as the sort of I-Know-Best busybody out of touch London elite.

Again and why was that? Was it perhaps because he didnt actually fit into the London media elite like Johnson or Cummings and got treated appropriately?

The problem I have with any conspiracy is the fact that it beguiles people to stop thinking about what actually went wrong.

Whereas the problem I have with your conspiracy theory slur approach is you are trying to declare certain issues beyond discussion.

Again and why was that?

Because he’s a know-it-all busybody?

trying to declare certain issues beyond discussion.

Not at all, knock yourself out, just don’t expect me to take it seriously I used to be a member of the labour party in High Wycombe in the 80’s. There was one old member who carried around a tatty folder full of press and cuttings about Harold Wilson, he was convinced there was a conspiracy to remove him from power, and thought that MI5 was watching him.

Plus ca change, plus c’est meme chose

As far as I can tell, the last two Labour leaders and the current one have all been shocking choices, none of them seem to have or had a clue. I think until Labour choose a leader that is both inspirational and looks half way competent to the electorate; years of opposition beckon.

Ah, fair play, that is pretty much the exact situation we find ourselves in now, so I’m happy to dismiss the Forde report and the evidence showing Joan Ryan’s collaboration with a foreign power.

Not at all, knock yourself out, just don’t expect me to take you seriously

I am heartbroken by the idea.
I notice you fail to address anything but just keep on with the gish gallop though.
Wilson, of course, is a rather complex area but one we are unlikely to get good answers either way on. There does seem to be evidence for at least some members of MI5 unofficially working against him.

It’s all the “discussion” deserves.

Constant editing is always sure to spice up a discussion…

Kinda forgot just how cunning and dishonest some folk can be when it comes to politics…

Like many on here, I voted for Corbyn in 2017 but had despaired of him by 2019. Not because of his principles but because I thought of him as a failed politian even then. Nice guy but a bit clueless and too gullible by far, too busy digging holes for himself.

There is nothing in that Peter Oborne article that I have a problem with though, wether I agree entirely or not.

Had Corbyn done the honorable thing and resigned after losing the first time than he might be a more respected voice now.