Jeremy Corbyn

The trouble with Jezza’s politics, such as they are, and thus Labour policy, is that it also cannot be so easily labelled. I’ve had a think, and the most accurate one I can find is ‘whatever pops into my head at any given moment’, or ‘stuff that’s, like, totally, like, not fair ‘n stuff… you know?’

As for socialism…?

Flexible?
Gesture politics?

J McD’s publishing tax returns idea certainly falls into the second

As for socialism…?

Don’t disagree with any of that. I’ve said here a few times that Corbyn and JMcD have made a catastrophic strategic mistake in backing brexit. They have a bizarre belief that the reactionary idiots up here in the north who voted to cut of their nose to spite there face will suddenly come flocking back to labour if they support brexit. Theresa May and the tories own brexit. Anyone who supports it is going to vote for them now, irregardless of whatever labour do.

Indeed, their time would be better spent wooing disillusioned Tory remainers of which I’m sure there are plenty. That would of course mean moving back to the centre. Corbyn and McDonnell ain’t going to be doing that any time soon.

But yet again its an example of Corbyns personal gut stance (anti EU) taking precedent over party policy (very pro EU), and his stubborn refusal to countenance any other opinion, or listen to anyone else.

Its utter madness. Like you said, all those people who voted leave are never going to vote Labour anyway. In the meantime the 70% of labour voters who voted remain feel absolutely deserted and betrayed by the present ‘leadership’ who’s stance in no way reflects their own (sound familiar?).

As the most right wing Tory government uses Brexit as a once-in-a-millennia opportunity to jettison workers rights (and god knows what else!), and turn us into a turbocharged, uber-capitlist, neoliberal wet-dream, subservient to America, the labour party will never be forgiven for its betrayal/utter stupidity in waving it through, totally unopposed

Oh… the real fight starts now! apparently

You couldn’t make it up. Its tragedy, played out as farce

Determination to carry on regardless of how bad it gets. Lets call that a (Mountain) Mayhem Quality. Conveniently run at Gatcombe for all his friends in the Lords

The Tories own Brexshit is a convenient narrative – false but enduring and will probably do them in, in the end

Labour are on a ST loser with the issue even if a decent leader might be emerging out of the carnage. They caught on immigration and on respecting the vote. Flaccid opposition.

But the Tories are more split over Brexshit than anyone. Lets not forget it was a government who campaigned against it, but lost. Plus the old grandees are never shy at coming out of the woodwork to support an issue that nailed them.

The Tories are both Gov and Oppo at the same time!

As the most right wing Tory government uses Brexit as a once-in-a-millennia opportunity to jettison workers rights (and god knows what else!), and turn us into a turbocharged, uber-capitlist, neoliberal wet-dream, subservient to America, the labour party will never be forgiven for its betrayal/utter stupidity in waving it through, totally unopposed

….

You couldn’t make it up. Its tragedy, played out as farce

I dont know, that wasnt a bad effort binns! 🙂

Fake News from Andrew Neill on This Week 🙂

the labour party will never be forgiven for its betrayal/utter stupidity in waving it through, totally unopposed

It is this act that seals it for me that JC should not be where he is. If he was someone who believed in equality, community, workers rights etc he would be going down fighting on this one and be opposed to Brexit all the way.

Yes ignoring the result of a democratic process is a guaranteed winner!

As stated: 70% of labour voters, voted remain. Isn’t that who he’s meant to be representing?

And there must be shedloads of less unhinged former Tory voters who are far from happy at the direction this whole car crash is headed in

But **** ’em! Its unopposed support for Brexit and the position of UKIP, the Tories and all the people who’d never vote for you in a million years instead.

Like I’ve said all along… politically clueless! He wouldn’t know a vote-winning policy if it painted itself purple, danced up and down naked in front of him, then hoofed him in the slats

There are 48% of the voting public (more now, I’d imagine) who didn’t want any of this, who’s votes are going begging as they have no political representation whatsoever. All while Jeremy gives the thumbs up to the right wing of the Tory party, and says “you crack on…. let us know when you’re done…… we’ll be having a meeting about building a statue honouring our brothers in Nicaragua, as a sign of our solidarity with their struggle ”

Yes ignoring the result of a democratic process is a guaranteed winner!

The (existing) democratic process that enabled Brexit to win was based on less than half the country saying YES to Brexit (due to protest votes e.g.defaced voting papers).

Your a statistician THM. Less than half. Under 50%. So that means more than 50% could well have been opposed.

For such a big decision I say that’s pretty weak numbers to be doggedly sticking by the whole ‘it’s a democracy’ argument if you’re truly opposed to it. I don’t think being afraid to stick his neck out is one of JC’s traits.

I know, crap isnt it – and we (remainers) did a really crap job at selling a very simple story. So we are all to blame.

But let’s turn you argument on its head – even though this should be in the EU thread – how democratic would it be for the leader of HM Oppostion to simply ignore the result of the vote? Its easy for the LDs because they are now relegated back to a largely irrelevant protest party. We are talking about the Opposition standing up and saying – “FU, we know better, so we are going to ignore you”. Do you think that would save the old boy?

be for the leader of HM Oppostion to simply ignore the result of the vote?

Ignore what? That less than half of the voting community voted YES. What’s so difficult to understand?

It’s why the Lords have just said NO to triggering Brexit. They understand it even if you don’t.

We are talking about the Opposition standing up and saying – “FU, we know better, so we are going to ignore you”

or the alt facts version…. ‘we’re going to represent the views of the large majority of our supporters – you know…. the people who actually voted for us, who don’t want to leave’. The Tories have no issue with exclusively representing the interests of its voters, to the exclusion of everyone else. Why be so timid?

Lets be honest….. at this point in proceedings WTF has he got to lose? His polling is absolutely catastrophic, and the the press are going to slaughter him whatever he does! He can’t possibly be any worse off if he actually grew a pair and stated that a political party was actually going to represent the interests of 48% the population, and actually do what the opposition is meant to do…. oppose!

i can’t be the only person wishing that somebody ****ing would!!!!

Ignore what? That less than half of the voting community voted YES. What’s so difficult to understand?

What part of democracy don’t you understand ? If you don’t vote you don’t have a say.

But let’s turn you argument on its head – even though this should be in the EU thread – how democratic would it be for the leader of HM Oppostion to simply ignore the result of the vote? Its easy for the LDs because they are now relegated back to a largely irrelevant protest party. We are talking about the Opposition standing up and saying – “FU, we know better, so we are going to ignore you”. Do you think that would save the old boy?

If you took that argument to its logical conclusion, the election of a Tory government in 2016 should herald five years of zero opposition whatsoever. After all, that’s the democratic outcome, how dare Labour fly in the face of it?

I take the view that the vote was close enough that it could have been ignored without much political fallout. Especially since most of the leading Leave campaign members didn’t actually want leave to win.

As it happens Corbyn’s, handling of the Brexit is something he’s got right IMHO. His wing of he party want out. He’s helping Brexit to happen without making it overly obvious.

The (existing) democratic process that enabled Brexit to win was based on less than half the country saying YES to Brexit (due to protest votes e.g.defaced voting papers).

And if you include the votes of all the dogs and cats in the country, who would have, to a quadraped, voted remain, then Brexit would never have happened.

Better not count the votes of the hamsters and gerbils though, they might have been leafers.

@cranberry…I love the way you leavers hate it when it’s pointed out that you didn’t win by a proper majority. You can’t say anything so just resort to spouting twaddle.. 😀

If a Referendum called by 90pc for nuking France, the vote would be ignored.

A vote to leave the EU can also be ignored.

Maybe he agrees with the Government? Odd I know and like T May he was at best a reluctant remainer.

EVB – you might want to check what the HoL voted on.

@cranberry…I love the way you leavers hate it when it’s pointed out that you didn’t win by a proper majority. You can’t say anything so just resort to spouting twaddle.

Whats there for the leavers to hate. Their side got more votes than our side. They won, we lost. To pretend that tit has no legitimacy is resorting to twaddle but i guess reflects how embarrassed we are at missing a slam dunk!!

We really screwed it up, they didnt. Not hard to see who’s to blame even if it is too late.

His wing of he party want out. He’s helping Brexit to happen without making it overly obvious.

Not too obvious? Apart from the bit where he went AWOL for the whole EU referendum campaign, called for article 50 to be triggered immediately, on the morning of the result, and pretty much everything he’s done since?

How much more obvious would you like it to be?

He’s not a reluctant remainer. Alan Johnson was very close to the Labour Remain campaign and he’s pretty clear Corbyn is a leaver along with his oppos. Not a surprise, they’re Bennite.

“Not too obvious? Apart from the bit where he went AWOL for the whole EU referendum campaign, called ffor article 50 to be triggered immediately, on the morning of the result, and pretty much everything he’s done since?
How much more obvious would you like it to be?”

He’s convinced THM.

Ok – so lets agree he is more of a leaver. What would you expect him to do now. He is a man who follows his convictions to the end isnt he?

“OK – so lets agree he is more of a leaver. What would you expect him to do now. He is a man who follows his convictions to the end isnt he?”

I’d expect him to do what he’s doing. Full steam towards Brexit whilst whining a bit.

@thm…Can you point out where I said it wasn’t a legimitate vote? Just because there’s a popular phrase trying to legitimise making up facts ,doesn’t mean you have to do it too. 🙄

No why, whats that got to do with the price of milk?

and we (remainers) did a really crap job at selling a very simple story. So we are all to blame.

Don’t agree. Remain were telling people what would happen but they didn’t want to know (helped by the largely leave media) as the anti-immigration angle was what appealed to a lot of people. You could hardly go for an anti-immigration stance when selling remain could you!

Obviously not.

But still doesnt take away the fact that our arguments lost – the anti-immigration issues was more powerful (despite being BS)

To his credit, Jezza is one of the few politicians who stands up for immigration although with the odd caveats to soothe the xenophobes within Lab

“You could hardly go for an anti-immigration stance when selling remain could you!”

Why not? Just say that *if* EU immigration slows, non-EU immigration will have to raise to meet the shortfall.

…and I’m not sure that Brexit is really going to slow EU immigration.

EU Immigration is the one thing absolutely guaranteed to be unaffected. The Tory parties financial backers demand a constant supply of cheap labour to keep wage costs down. And what they want, they get

The racist idiots who voted for this nonsense are about to realise how much they’ve been conned. Andrew Rawnsley wrote an interesting article in the Observer a few weeks ago saying a number of Tory MPs are seriously thinking that there will be riots on the streets when people belatedly realise that they’ll get more of the stuff they voted against, and a lot less of what they’d previously taken for granted. Post Brexit

Perhaps that’s what Jezza is doing? Playing the long game and letting them usher in the long awaited socialist revolution?

the labour party will never be forgiven for its betrayal/utter stupidity in waving it through, totally unopposed

Corbyn has been a lifelong Leaver – he the leader and he is driving the policy. As I have said on the other thread it’s my firm belief the result will look increasingly good as the EU spirals downwards as we approach the 2020 GE.

Perhaps that’s what Jezza is doing?

Jezza is doing what he’s always done, which is to take the uncompromising moral view, which is that the EU is a neo-liberal capitalist club and as such we shouldn’t be any part of it. He has a point, but the alternative is much worse.

Which the PLP and anyone with anything between their ears can see.

Be careful what you wish for. I don’t know what he thinks this is going to usher in, but I know for sure it’s going to improve anything for the working class he’s meant to represent

Maybe it looks different at a Momentum meeting in Islington

Never mind though. Like TOTAL bragging rights in the common room. Like, totes **** the Blairites, yeah!!! BOOM! Oh……..

which is to take the uncompromising moral view,

Ho hum …

The chairman of the Community Security Trust (organisation which tracks anti-Semitic incidents) said in front of the new Met Police Chief and Tom Watson the following

“I don’t doubt that the Labour leader opposes anti-Semitism when it comes from Nazis but when it comes dressed up as anti-Zionism he is more likely to ask if he can join in. This is far more subversive than the danger posed by Nazis.”

My thoughts entirely.

My thoughts entirely.

I’m not sure I’d dignify the random firing of neurons with the term “thoughts”.