Get your dancing on grave boots ready

And baths by candlelight.

And having my tea cooked on a Calor gas stove.

Unfortunately there are people today that struggle to heat their house adequately even without a strike, thanks largely to her.

There’s a nice deep hole in Chile going spare. Tip her down the rescue chute and use the camera at the bottom to see what kind of mess she makes. Would also make sure that she was indeed dead.

It’s so “of the moment” to hate her – many do without knowing any/many facts about the good things that happened under her “rule.”

Oh well – usual sheep mentality rules as usual.

Really? Aren’t you getting on for 20 yrs behind the times? Even for those who still harbour that burning hatred, it was kindled 25-30 years ago

Unfortunately there are people today that struggle to heat their house adequately even without a strike, thanks largely to her.

Even though there are now better benefits for all? And anyway, they can switch on their 48” Plasma tellies – they give off plenty of heat.

Stood firm against the IRA? You mean perpetuated a civil war that could only be ended by negotiations and was successfully ended by negotiations once someone with some understanding and flexibility was PM

I didn’t know you were a fan of John Major TJ?
😀

roper – on this one he did very well. No doubt the end of the civil war in northern Ireland was in large part down to him.

Yeti, I’ve not offered an opinion. I’ve pointed out that TJ’s post vehemently offers his opinions on specific historic items as absolute fact. I don’t necessarily agree with all of Matts post either but it was offered as an outlook rather than something that should be written. TJ seems to attempt to bully and laud anyone who doesn’t share his views. He needs to wind his neck in IMO.

I won’t be celebrating the death of a senile old woman, but I certainly won’t be mourning either.

And I know it’s a cliche – but that doesn’t mean it isn’t true – she promoted the idea of selfishness as a virtue and is responsible for a great deal of the social problems and divisions still present in this country.

It’s so “of the moment” to hate her – many do without knowing any/many facts about the good things that happened under her “rule.”

I’ve not noticed this, most people who hate her now always have, me included.

i must admit the standing firm against the ira thing made me lol
she prolonged the troubles and a lot of innocent people died before things got better, infact until nulab came along….

Mastilles, look at google regarding the rates and causes of fuel poverty.

Backhander – bully and laud? Do you know what laud means?

backhander – Member

TJ you really are a cock.

Pot kettle black.

Kimbers – John Major takes a lot of the credit for the end of the troubles

Backhander – I guess I was hoping that you (or someone) would be able to put together a counter to TJ with as much conviction as TJ posted himself.

Coming from a background of Guardian reading public sector workers I’ve never heard the other side of the argument put forward in a plausible way.

Surf-Mat – Member
No politician is perfect, but as Tony Benn said you knew where you stood with her. On the point of unemployment, industries like coal were no longer viable, she didn’t waste money trying to subsidise them and although bitter at the time, countries that did try to keep loss making industries going like France & Germany are now paying for it with huge unemployment now.
She stood firm against the IRA and reacted with an incredibly cool head in the Brighton bombings.
She took on Argentina and won.
She revolutionised higher education.
Her government turned around an uncompetitive, union-dominated economy into a powerhouse that set a lot of precedents for the world to follow.
She inspired (some of) a generation to believe that hard work pays off.
She was a genuinely well respected leader the World over.
Do people not understand that the coal industry was NO LONGER VIABLE? Why prop it up?

Do you actually have any idea what you’re talking about Surf-Mat?

‘Standing firm’ to the IRA only perpetuated the problems in Northern Ireland: what really moved things on there was Major and then Blair’s willingness to shift and negotiate and start the peace process.

She inspired (some of) a generation to believe that greed is good and the pursuit of self-interest can be put above the well-being of the whole.

And what the hell do you think she did that ‘revolutionised Higher Education’? I ask this in all sincerity as someone who works in the sector.

And as someone who also grew up in one of the steel towns that fell apart in the 1980s.

I guess I was hoping that you (or someone) would be able to put together a counter to TJ with as much conviction as TJ posted himself.

+1

And I know it’s a cliche – but that doesn’t mean it isn’t true – she promoted the idea of selfishness as a virtue and is responsible for a great deal of the social problems and divisions still present in this country.

+1

Wow I always thought Surf-Mat was a bit of a tool but really…..

I’ve not noticed this, most people who hate her now always have, me included.

I was going to write something in her defence, 😯 but I can’t. I too have hated her for a long, long time. 8)

grum – Member
Wow I always thought Surf-Mat was a bit of a tool but really…..

Bit harsh. He’s does tit around in boats though, so how could he possibly understand the feelings that started this thread?

I’ll say something in her defence that I’ve borrowed from another recent thread….

hell of a team builder tho…. 😉

sweepy – Member
Mastilles, look at google regarding the rates and causes of fuel poverty.

Okay, just have and no-one appears to be blaming Thatcher. But, still, it must be her fault even though Labour were in power from 1997 until earlier this year.

Ohh, and I am politically neutral – I am of the opinion that they all serve us different shades of the same shit so not sticking up for her, I just dislike hearing people wishing death on another human who was, at the end of the day, doing what she felt was right for the nation whether, on reflection, it was right or wrong.

yeti…………team builder and you missed this 😉

I guess I was hoping that you (or someone) would be able to put together a counter to TJ with as much conviction as TJ posted himself.

I think the problem is that the arguments against thatcher are usually based on first hand experience.

I think in this instance surf-mat’s opinion is way wide of the mark.

The coal industry was viable, the issue was the power of the union. Thatcher took them on and beat them into the ground. You only have to visit parts of the north (and a few in the south) to see the utter devastation that her actions caused. People are still paying for her policies today.

I won’t celebrate the death of an old woman, but I can and do appreciate that hatred for her runs deeper than a lot of southern middle class posters on this thread can understand.

OK, the IRA couldn’t continue their preferred activities of bombing and maiming innocent people due to the americans realising sometime around 11/12 sept 2001 that terrorism wasn’t as glamorous as they had thought. PIRA ran out of funds and therefore only had political means available to them. There were no war crimes in the south atlantic and don’t start on about the belgrano when the captain of the ship has admitted it was a fair hit. Argentina has no rightful claim to the islands, if anything they should be a repulic.
I’m no fan of Thatcher and consider my politics central (I have views to the left and right). It’s clear that she really did ruin many areas of the UK but was it a benefit to the country as a whole? I don’t know. Nobody really does as the alternative was never played out. I completely sympathise with those whos lives were wrecked by her policies (there were many) and they have a right to hate her IMO. I’m a little young to remember the affects of her actions and so will not insult people by offering an opinion based upon the writings of people who may have been biased in some way or another. Edit; I grew up properly poor, does that get me kudos points?

I think what you can also blame Thatcher for is that she was so influential that a supposedly left wing government largely carried on her legacy (though Labour have to share the blame for that one too of course).

Re coal not being ‘viable’ – any idea how much we still subsidise other sources of power? Or the banks for that matter.

I think it’s important to remember in amongst all the handbagging that she was a figurehead, a focal point for a deeply entrenched little britain, pro-establishment, anti-working class, elitist, right wing, old money, ****-the-poor mentality that has never gone away.

…and Oh look, here we are again, ideology as policy, cut the state back, ****-the-poor, tramp down the communities that have never recovered from the last time the Conservative party was in full swing.

If ever we need an example of the way that governments can build lasting legacies, the damage done by the Conservative government in the past is the best of all.

We’re all in it together….

Cheers Ton! Didn’t intend on misquoting so went and copy/pasted. 😉

OK, the IRA couldn’t continue their preferred activities of bombing and maiming innocent people due to the americans realising sometime around 11/12 sept 2001 that terrorism wasn’t as glamorous as they had thought.

WTF

Don’t let facts get in the way, ehh???

The Good Friday Agreement was signed more than 3 years before 9/11

mat PR really is your calling unsubstantiated unevidenced opinion masquerading as fact and then you have the audacity to say this

Surf-Mat – Member
TJ – no it’s “TJ’s” OPINION.

A VERY different thing to “the truth

Self awareness is really not your strong poiunt is it?

I hated some of the things she did I found other things laudable.

I won’t celebrate her death because that would be sick and weird. I won’t be terribly upset either. She, like everyone, was flawed in many ways but the populace voted her in a few times (I was too young to vote)so she obviously struck a chord with a lot of people.

I think on reflection Blair did worse things than she did but in a much less explicit way.

My take on Politics is that they are all C****

lets not forget that under her lawson and then lamont came up with the awesome idea of pension holidays!

Nice answer backhander. I don’t agree tho 🙂 een tho the only bit of my answer you refute is the belgrano.

I wonder how her supporters feel about her (continued) support for the mass-murdering Pinochet? I think that indicates pretty well what kind of person she is.

Who got us involved in Northern Ireland?

A Labour Prime Minister!

a nice little fact you choose to overlook when making accusations TJ!

yossarian………..words of wisdom.

this woman ripped the communities to pieces, causing unknown debt, depravation, divorce and suicide in some cases.
people were using soup kitchens and food handouts.

do you wonder why there is so much hatred for this woman.
she made it personal, and not for the countries wellbeing.

In April 2005, Gerry Adams called for the IRA to lay down its weapons

No IRA weapons were decommissioned until October 2001, and the final consignment to be “put beyond use” was announced on 26 September 2005

It was all talk until then.

I’m with MF on this one.

While I’m not pro Thatcher, I feel this pure hatred needs some balance so used the opinions of some pro Thatcherites from a rather nicely written Independent piece from a while back.

As usual, everyone goes ballistic.

She took on Argentina and won.

Hadn’t read that until now.

I should bloody well hope she won! A fully professional army against conscripted children (17 year olds). It was a war, not football where anyone has a chance against England. 😆

And had I signed up, as I was planning, I would have been one of the youngest Brits sent there.

As much damage as Thatcher did do, the loathing and vitriol should be heaped upon those who voted her in. Time and again.

They enabled this.

👿

Can we go back to the Winter of Discontent?