Cornering Pt 2

Earlier I asked about leaning the rider or the bike more in corners and consensus said lean the bike more. I tried it and it really works.

However now I’m having trouble with the front wheel washing out. What are the likely causes?

I’m riding a rigid 29er with NN 2.4″ at quite low pressure.

You’re not using the correct technique.
1) outside foot down & push down
2) inside hand down & push down
3) don’t look at the corner whilst you’re in it – look at the apex as you approach, once in the corner look at your exit

EDIT: This is what works for me after going to see Jedi

You’re centre of gravity is too far back. Shift forward a bit.

Once you get it right (not that I am a master of it) the bike can drift and it should be much more controllable.

On long corners it can help to have your inside foot off the pedal, and up by the front wheel. I imagine that I am trying to touch my fork dropout with my inside foot, and it helps to get weight over the front wheel. You should probably be able to get your weight forward enough without doing this, but I do find that it helps sometimes.

the bloke behind is taking the piss isn’t he 😉

1 foot off, didn’t people stop doing that a decade ago?

vital on loose fire road! why not eh? all about having fun.

meanwhile. danny hart a decade ago… (presumably when he was about 9 years old yeh?)

I don’t think this is helping the OP corner better? Where are you riding?

If you have a motor bike then this is accepted form:

I think it can help as an exercise to get the feeling of weighting the outside pedal and shifting weight over the front wheel.

Admittedly no better than keeping feet on the pedals and shifting your weight properly, but it can be a step towards doing that.

The secret is long trousers, all the fast riders have them !

sure its helping.

everyone loves to see a lad on a 29er on an xc ride with his inside foot out in some kind of monty python sketch/nazi salute.

Like the video in this thread?
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/uks-smallest-trail-centre

I like making sure my outside elbow is high (see Fabien’s vid clip) and the twisting of the hips really does increase control.

The front wheel washing out means you have exceeded traction, the Lopes/McCormac book explains that weighting a tyre increases traction (it sounds obvious) so getting that body weight forward increases this. The book also explains leaning the bike more allows you to unlean if needed to adjust traction, you can’t unlean so easily if your angle matches the bike.

Bent arms give you room to extend, you especially need to be more articulated as you are the suspension. Your cone of movement is the range of mobility you have independent of the bike. It radiates from the BB up, bigger cone=more control.

Countersteering to set up for a corner is a subtle thing to do that can help too.

So many variables! I like that cornering is something that can always be improved upon, regardless of your discipline or ability.

I’ve got a 29er and was really suffering with front wheel wash out. After a trip to Jedi and lowering and flipping my stem I now have far more control. Jedi sorted out my body position, looking and confidence and the adjustment to set up was the icing on the cake.

‘Weight forward/sticking yer leg out’……that really works well with rigid forks 😀
After 7 years exclusively racing/riding rigid bikes I can vouch that the techniques needed to make them work at speed are considerably different to ‘normal’ bikes.

counter steering, anyone do that much? On berms possibly but I find it seems to upset the handling of the bike on loose corners so don’t bother much.

edit don’t do leg out much either, slow down a little bit more then pedal straight out of the corner, no having to clip back in before getting the power down again

Oh, forgot to check: It may be obvious to some but you know not to use the front brake while cornering right? Ideally you should be off the brakes altogether, but a bit of rear brake is ok if really needed.

so now cornering is specific to 29 ers and rigids?

you lot do talk some shite.

more weight over front wheel is indeed correct. leg out is obviously a joke, save for ragging your bike round fire roads or flying into berms too damn fast.

The front wheel washing out means you have exceeded traction

mindblowing.

I was waiting for someone to tell me I’m going too fast.

you have exceeded traction as a direct result of going too fast. reduce speed to less than walking pace. then turn into the corner.

If it works for you…..I generally get off,walk round the corner and then re-mount for the next straight bit.

when getting off the bike be aware of your cone of parambulation and availability of the biomechanical range of the distal extremities of your lower limbs. then counter steer, and apply the rear braking device.

Leg out can = broken ankle as happened to a mate of mine when he adopted this technique 🙄
MXers wear big, reinforced boots to protect their limbs 💡

say whaaaat? puttin a foot down will snap your leg off?

im fairly sure that the main risk for snapping an MXers akle is planting the front foot, then running over the back of it with your own footpeg.

quite common, sodding painful.

less likely on an mtb.

less likely on an mtb.

A mate of mine actually managed to do just that with the pedals.

How we laughed that day.

Still, I use the foot out technique sometimes. Usually on tight, loamy, steep switchbacks.

Foot out for style points only..

Click for youtube video at 1m19s.

A mate of mine actually managed to do just that with the pedals.

How we laughed that day.

broke his leg doing it?

IMPRESSIVE!

and ouch!

aah love that vid

First you must look at the coner then you must visualise the corner in your minds eye. Then you must visualise yourself riding through the corner in your minds eye (also). Then when approaching the corner you must close your eyes and re watch what you just visualised. Then open your eyes and you will have traveled through space and time to just on the exit of the corner. Be sure to do a double fist pump at the apex also.

At what point do I say the OP’s going too fast? I discuss the fact that traction is dynamic and explain some things he can do to increase it.

You didn’t, no need to be touchy! 🙂

the twisting of the hips really does increase control.

Ignoring all the petty squabbling, this really works for me, point your cock where you want to be going and look at the exit then allong next bit of trail. Doing this automaticaly puts your outside leg down, leans the bike into the gap you’ve just created under your inside leg, unweights your inside foot, straightens your inside arm and raises your outside elbow.

You could try and do all that seperately, but just moving the hips seems to shift everything else without having to think so much.

And looking at that pic of the DHers Vs Hart, the difference is they’re still hovering over their saddles, he’s twisted his body and now the saddle is somewhere under his thigh rather than his crotch.

That and lots of practice, after a few rides really struggling riding in a new area (which had more corners and less techy stuff) I took the BMX out the shed and did laps of the garden (which pretty big and has a fair slope to it) kept cornering untill I was drifting both wheels, digging the inside pedal into the ground and dismounting so gracefuly I was barely jogging off the bike when eventualy the laws of physics dictated the cornering not technique. That and riding pump tracks with really tight berms teaches you to look out the exit not over the top.

It’s a tad annoying when you try to give help and someone ridicules it without appearing to have grasped what was being said. But it is just the internet.

I washed out a fair bit when I got my rigid (69er) and then learned to be more progressive when shifting my bodyweight. Simply being front heavy does not fix the problem.

I’m taking my cone elsewhere, get your foot out son!

im sorry. can’t help myself, been a stressfull few weeks.

if it helps, i agree with what you were saying, just my fingers couldn’t resist.

fairly sure yours (and everyone elses) advice boils down to the same.

-weight over the front, elbows up, bent to give you a bit more of an agressive stance
-get out the saddle and get space for the bike to move round in
-get bike leaned over and weight outside pedal
-stay off brakes
-possibly twist hips a bit.

and fnally ensure that you have your cock facing into the cone of love, and all will be well.

and fnally ensure that you have your cock facing into the cone of love, and all will be well.

You’ve been reading Fifty Shades of Grey haven’t you?

no but that’s the third time i’ve heard it mentioned this week!

*heads off to have a look on amazon.

Is this that filthy trilogy my Wife has finnished reading in about 3 days and then saying i should read it 😯

😆

I had a bail a couple of months ago where the right end of my bar entered the cone and made an unwanted friendship with my cock and it’s neighbouring areas (surrounding counties?). Not cool.

There were fifty shades of a bluey/yellow/purple a few days later.