Home Forums Chat Forum "1,400 children were subjected to "appalling" sexual exploitation in Rotherham"

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  • "1,400 children were subjected to "appalling" sexual exploitation in Rotherham"
  • ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    ernie_lynch – Member

    You’re not convinced ?

    Posted 35 minutes ago #

    I’ll take that as a no then.

    nemesis
    Free Member

    Of course there’s reason for suspicion. There are also things that go against your theory. Yours is a possible theory but it’s not a credible one IMO even if some of the more basic parts of it are.

    There could well be powerful people stopping investigations to cover up theirs and their friends’ activities. There doesn’t need to be an overarching conspiracy about control structures and the Queen.

    Or it could just be as I said before that there are several groups of influential people with nasty inclinations who use their influence to allow it. Some may know each other but that doesn’t make a grand conspiracy. The fact that these things are being dug up now and not being silenced points to this rather than your big single conspiracy.

    grum
    Free Member

    And you think letting JHJ know that you think he’s “full of shit” is better than a cheap shot ?

    The point is not about ‘being nice to JHJ’ it’s about you making smug flippant jokes about child abuse. But I’m sure you knew that too.

    jivehoneyjive
    Free Member

    No one is doing a good job of explaining the involvement of MI5… or the high level machinations it would take to cover up such acts over several governments.

    Of course, the fact that Dr Julian Lewis, who was instrumental in the shutting down of Scallywag magazine which 1st exposed the paedophile ring operating around Dolphin Square[/url] and Edward Garnier, who only last year warned Simon Danczuk from pursuing the matter of Leon Brittan’s involvement were on the 30th of March this year both appointed to the Privy Council can only further raise suspicion.

    And that’s before you factor in that both Nick Clegg and William Hague, 2 of the 4 Privy councillors involved in making the decision, are themselves both close associates of Leon Brittan and both are implicated in the cover up…

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    it’s about you making smug flippant jokes about child abuse.

    That’s quite a serious allegation grum. I don’t mind people having a go at me but I suggest you edit. I have never hit the report button since I’ve been on this forum I think that probably warrants it.

    grum
    Free Member

    This topic is about child abuse, you admit to ‘leg-pulling and piss-taking’ on the subject.

    I’m not really sure what your problem is with what I said.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    I admit to ‘leg-pulling and piss-taking’ JHJ. The claim I have made “smug flippant jokes about child abuse” is extremely offensive and totally without foundation.

    bearnecessities
    Full Member

    We’ve all had a drink. Let’s just make a brew before someone gets into trouble!

    grum
    Free Member

    I admit to ‘leg-pulling and piss-taking’ JHJ.

    Yes, about a series of real, horrific and wide-ranging child abuse/corruption cases. I find your attitude in this thread offensive so I guess we’re even.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    No like other people about his conspiracy theory. An example of leg-pulling and piss-taking was my above comment “She’s going to be very cross with that Assistant Chief Constable !”

    In your twisted mind you want to claim that this represents “smug flippant jokes about child abuse”

    Despite my initial disgust at your highly offensive and insulting allegation, and your complete inability to apologise, I decided not to hit the report button grum, your allegation is condemned by its own absurdity.

    digga
    Free Member

    As regards Janner, if you read what the police themselves are quoted as saying, it all looks rather bent:

    the lead council appointed to the case recommended that the case go ahead. But Mrs Saunders has ruled that it is not in the public interest to pursue a conviction, as Lord Janner’s dementia means that he will not be able to hire representation or follow proceedings.

    Sir Clive Loader, the police and crime commissioner for Leicestershire, said: “The decision is not just wrong — it is wholly perverse and contrary to any notion of natural justice.” Sir Clive has now written to the home secretary, arguing that the Department of Public Prosecutions had “fatally undermined” justice…

    And, to add further interest, another name from the Rotherham scandal crops up again; Keith Vaz.

    Full article here: http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/04/17/labour-solidarity-establishment-protection-of-lord-janner-goes-back-24-years/

    More of the same from the Guardian too: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/19/establishment-stopped-me-exposing-greville-janner-25-years-ago?hc_location=ufi

    bongohoohaa
    Free Member

    Previous page, fella.

    Keith Vaz seems to have gone uncharacteristically quiet on the whole affair.

    MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    Just as a passing thought, do we have a strong record of regularly putting people with dementia on trial?

    Assuming the various doctors are correct with their diagnosis, much as I feel for the victims and hate the idea of a potential abuser not getting tried and possibly convicted, is he getting preferential treatment at this stage over anyone else accused of serious crimes who are diagnosed with dementia?

    The evils of any cover ups in the past being taken out of the equation for this point.

    mefty
    Free Member

    Just as a passing thought, do we have a strong record of regularly putting people with dementia on trial?

    Would appear so

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    Personally I can’t a problem with someone with dementia being put on trial for the alleged crimes. What would present a problem imo is the fact that punishment for the alleged crimes would be impossible to administer.

    Still worthwhile imo as it would help to bring closure to the victims – their stories would have been heard, and the fact that they were victims recognised. Justice will have prevailed and crimes “solved”, to an extent.

    They have been failed by society over many years and a trial would go a small way in redressing that.

    I’m not passing judgment on Janner btw, I’m just suggesting the value of justice.

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    This is a very serious subject but if you feed the Troll the trolling just gets worse.

    bongohoohaa
    Free Member

    Who is the troll?

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    There was an excellent editorial in the Morning Star last week on the issue :

    GREVILLE JANNER’S family insist that the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) decision not to proceed with charges of sexual abuse of children means that he is “entirely innocent of any wrongdoing.”

    Their statement echoes similar protestations by members of serial predator Jimmy Savile’s family.

    Savile could not face criminal charges because he was dead.

    Four medical experts have expressed their opinion that the scale of Janner’s dementia renders him similarly untouchable, which has been accepted by the Crown Prosecution Service.

    By the letter of the law, both men are innocent, having never been convicted in a court of law.

    However, no-one now believes, in light of the overwhelming weight of evidence from survivors of his abuse, that Savile was anything but a prolific, serial sex offender.

    He and others whose crimes have been laid bare following their deaths escaped retribution because they were powerful, well-connected men, protected by other rich and influential people.

    The boys and girls they mistreated bore their abuse in silence or found their complaints dismissed contemptuously.

    Religious, political and legal institutions failed tens of thousands of children raped and abused by those with the inclination, opportunity and power to do so.

    That the victims were often resident in care homes and viewed by investigators as unreliable witnesses helped the perpetrators to cover their tracks.

    The volume of accusations placed against Janner, after his victims plucked up the courage to speak out in the hope of seeing him prosecuted, convicted and jailed, should persuade people not to hide behind an “innocent until proven guilty” mantra.

    In suspending his membership, the Labour Party clearly feels that it cannot avoid taking a stand on this matter.

    It is unusual for senior police officers to dissent as firmly over a CPS no-action decision as Leicestershire Police Assistant Chief Constable Roger Bannister has over the Janner case.

    His observation that the decision will “do little to support and encourage victims of sexual abuse to come forward” is indisputable.

    Given the scale of Leicestershire Police’s Operation Enamel, interviewing over 2,000 people with a view to uncovering the truth about a number of child molesters, the sense of frustration and disappointment over the CPS announcement is difficult to exaggerate.

    Janner had been on the police radar since 1991 and there were four probes into his behaviour.

    This is a common story in such cases, with police acting on evidence brought to their notice before having investigations closed down as a result of pressure from on high.

    It is not good enough for the CPS to admit now that it had sufficient evidence to prosecute Janner over two decades ago but had not done so because of “mistakes”.

    Director of Public Prosecutions Alison Saunders’ comment that “there are real lessons to be learned” is too often the cop-out used by those in authority to excuse diabolical decision-making and organisational failure.

    It is difficult to work up any great enthusiasm for the inquiry into its handling of the case that CPS has asked Sir Richard Henriques to carry out.

    Countless numbers of children were – and doubtless still are – systematically abused by influential men who rely on networks of like-minded people to protect them from answering their crimes.

    Abuse victims need to hear apologies for what they went through, but they don’t need platitudes about lessons to be learned.

    They need their abusers unmasked now, not when they’re dead or beyond reach.

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    Still worthwhile imo as it would help to bring closure to the victims – their stories would have been heard, and the fact that they were victims recognised. Justice will have prevailed and crimes “solved”, to an extent.

    It’s problematic putting someone on trial if they lack the mental capacity to mount a proper defence, especially in cases where your recollection of events long past is totally absent, although I agree with your point about the value to the alleged victims.

    I notice that Janner, who was appparently diagnosed in 2009, had the capacity to carry on attending the Lords and taking part in votes until December 2013, in fact until the exact point when police coincidentally raided his home…

    If his condition is genuine, and not Saunders-esque, then it seems that the slow grinding of the CPS and police has cost his accusers the chance of a day in court by a matter of months.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    It’s problematic putting someone on trial if they lack the mental capacity to mount a proper defence, especially in cases where your recollection of events long past is totally absent…

    I think the suggestion is being made that the volume of evidence is so overwhelming, as is the case with Savile, that subtly detail doesn’t need to be disputed.

    Most people accept Savile’s guilt despite the fact that he hasn’t able to defend himself on account of being deceased.

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    Haven’t seen any account of the strength of the evidence. I firmly hope it isn’t anywhere near the scale of Saville, for obvious reasons.

    But if it’s overwhelming, then we just have to make sure that the victims have their day, if not in court, in the press and before a public inquiry.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    Well no, I don’t think it’s of the scale of Savile’s, but it would appear that it is because it is so substantial that the police are considering an unprecedented legal challenge against the director of public prosecutions.

    I think the victims should ‘have their day in court’ not leave it to the press administer justice. And isn’t a court just as good as a public inquiry?

    According to the Daily Mail link posted by mefty :

    In serious cases where a judge rules a suspect is not fit to stand trial a jury can hear the evidence in the suspect’s absence and decide if the individual committed the crimes.

    A suspect is not found to be guilty, or not guilty, but a jury do rule on if they have committed the crimes.

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    Getting your hands dirty by quoting from a Mail link. 🙂

    A suspect is not found to be guilty, or not guilty, but a jury do rule on if they have committed the crimes.

    That’s interesting, didn’t know they could do that. Bring it on.

    epicyclo
    Full Member

    So dementia gets a Lord off, but not commoners?

    From FaceBook
    UK & Eire database for all crimes against children
    18 April at 10:58 ·
    SO the Crown Prosecution Service say they would not charge Lord Janner with multiple child sexual abuse charges owing to his poor health for Alzheimer’s & dementia
    On Twitter his morning, we decided to challenge the CPS, and researched our own database where offenders with dementia have been taken to court – Remarkable response with many journalists already sharing our findings
    Here is a number of cases where other paedophiles with dementia have been found GUILTY in court
    72-year-old Dementia sufferer is jailed for “appalling” child sex offences committed 40 years ago http://ukpaedos-exposed.com/20…/…/07/brian-ash-millendreath/
    Paedophile suffered from dementia & Alzheimer’s disease at TIME of offences – Guilty http://ukpaedos-exposed.com/…/03/12/douglas-turner-barnsta…/
    Paedophile with severe dementia found guilty of abusing 6 under-age girls in a trial held in his absence http://ukpaedos-exposed.com/…/michael-collingwood-tedburn-…/
    Paedophile with dementia was remanded in custody – Found guilty at trial & then jailed http://wp.me/p2gE9F-3UV
    Eastham paedophile had vascular problems and resulting dementia – Found guilty in court http://wp.me/p2gE9F-41C
    Paedophile suffers from dementia & heart problems – Found guilty & jailed http://wp.me/p2gE9F-6We
    Judge convicts paedophile with korsakoff’s syndrome, a form of dementia. http://wp.me/p2gE9F-71N
    Paedophile with dementia walks free from court after abusing girls as young as two http://wp.me/p2gE9F-8Kv
    Suffers from dementia,mentally incapable of standing trial – Not be able to understand proceedings – Found guilty http://wp.me/p2gE9F-aiE
    82-year-old Belfast pensioner with dementia found guilty http://wp.me/p2gE9F-fn5
    Wick/Bristol paedophile Teacher recently assessed for dementia found guilty & jailed http://wp.me/p2gE9F-g3j
    78-year-old Cornton paedophile who has dementia & is nearly deaf found guilty and jailed http://wp.me/p2gE9F-hgl
    Harworth paedophile with vascular dementia found Guilty – However walked free from court http://wp.me/p2gE9F-hhU
    Chippenham/London paedophile Teacher molested children – suffered from dementia – Found guilty & jailed for 7 years http://wp.me/p2gE9F-huk
    Stoke paedophile with fronto-temporal dementia – Found guilty http://wp.me/p2gE9F-hz9
    Stanmore paedophile suffered from dementia & Alzheimer’s – Found guilty & jailed http://wp.me/p2gE9F-iI2
    Swindon paedophile systematically sexually abused a young girl in the 1970s – Had dementia & found Guilty http://wp.me/p2gE9F-iOG
    Huddersfield paedophile unfit to plead to charges against him cause of dementia BUT was tried & found guilty by jury http://wp.me/p2gE9F-jhB
    Paedophile who abused two boys over 30 years ago detained indefinitely under hospital order – Had dementia – GUILTY http://wp.me/p2gE9F-gf8

    big_n_daft
    Free Member

    Just as a passing thought, do we have a strong record of regularly putting people with dementia on trial?

    isn’t it known as an “Earnest Saunders” where the stress of a potential trial make the symptoms of dementia appear for a period and when the trial is not held the same symptoms disappear?

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    General Pinochet, brutal Chilean dictator and personal friend of Margret Thatcher, claimed dementia when arrested for his crimes in London. In fact he was apparently so frail that he became confined to a wheelchair and had to be boarded onto a Chilean plane wheelchair bound :

    However upon landing in Chile a miracle occurred and, praise the Lord, he was able to stand up and walk:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/665482.stm

    jivehoneyjive
    Free Member

    Speaking of Generals, this is interesting:

    War Hero, 82, hit fellow peer in Lords

    Lord Bramall, 82, hit Lord Janner, a senior member of Britain’s Jewish community, after making what witnesses claim were a series of ‘anti-Israel’ comments.

    ‘We are very old friends, we have corresponded since then.’ Asked what ‘then’ meant, Lord Bramall said: ‘Since we had a slight argument.’


    Lord Bramall’s home was recently searched by Operation Midland

    Operation Midland is examining claims that boys were abused by a group of powerful men from politics, the military and law enforcement agencies at locations across southern England and in London in the 1970s and 1980s.

    This from the 1st link is particularly interesting, given the concerns I’ve raised about Lord Mountbatten and Kincora:

    He was later on Lord Mountbatten’s staff and became a full General in 1976.

    Remembering of course that it was Prince Charles’ mentor, Lord Mountbatten, who introduced Jimmy Savile to the Royal family…

    nealglover
    Free Member

    Don’t forget, that there were two boys on the boat when Mountbatten died too.

    mefty
    Free Member

    Don’t forget, that there were two boys on the boat when Mountbatten died too.

    There were three actually Tim Knatchbull survived and wrote a very good book – so it must be an even bigger conspiracy.

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    There were three actually Tim Knatchbull survived and wrote a very good book

    Interesting, I will search that out

    mefty
    Free Member
    jivehoneyjive
    Free Member

    For further context, you may also want a copy of this:

    The Kincora Scandal, Political cover up and intrigue in Northern Ireland

    As it is out of print, it is quite pricey.

    There is a free online copy available here if you prefer

    jivehoneyjive
    Free Member

    Well Well, not only is Lord Janner being investigated under Operation Midland after he and Leon Brittan raped the same boy in the same property, but one of the 114 files missing from the Home Office is a file on him from 1986

    jivehoneyjive
    Free Member

    So, yet again, like Cyril Smith and Jimmy Savile (not forgetting they were long time friends)


    There was yet another missed opportunity to investigate Lord Janner

    What is most concerning is that special advisers to the Home Secretary at the time were Patrick Rock (a special adviser in David Cameron’s cabinet until his arrest in 2014 relating to child abuse images) and David Cameron.

    Considering Lord Janner has been linked to abusing in the same networks as Leon Brittan, who along with Cyril Smith and Jimmy Savile was known at Elm Guest House, just how long has David Cameron been privy to information regarding VIP abuse networks, being as the Home Office runs MI5 and Special Branch?

    piemonster
    Free Member

    Does anybody not pedalling an agenda feel able to give a brief ‘balanced’ summary of where this situation is at?

    scaredypants
    Full Member

    Lord Janner is “too old, frail and demented” to be held to account*

    *Frankly, rather like Saunders, I hope he’s shot on sight taken straight to a court if he’s ever seen holding a normal conversation again.

    To be fair, somebody (and I’m not sure how popular they’re making themnselves) is keeping the lack of a case sufficiently in the media that we all know about him and what he absolutely, completely hasn’t been convicted of so he’s not a depraved old bastard hiding under the wing of the state at all – you know, much like ol’ Jimmy was never convicted.

    The rest of it’s lizards – all the way down. Except for the paedophiles, but many of them are also lizards as we know all too well.

    In the end, JHJ will probably turn out to be “somewhat” correct in his assertions but they’re undermined by their sheer weight and variety and the lack of anything other than innuendo (fair enough, the whole point is they’re protecting each other) in support.

    binners
    Full Member

    meanwhile…. here we go again….

    I’m sure we’re about to be treated, somewhat depressingly, to exactly the same abject failure of social services and the local council, and the usual suspects, who’ve got away with it for years, for the same wearyingly familiar reasons.

    hora
    Free Member

    I wonder if Jenner really is suffering from Dementia. Hes probably suffering from age related issues however the character, a Doctor erring on the side of caution. Who knows? When I read that the CPS wouldn’t press charges it instantly reminded me of accused turning up to court on crutches or wearing hearing aids to accentuate the look of old age.

    jivehoneyjive
    Free Member

    the whole point is they’re protecting each other) in support.

    For the sake of balance, I’d like to point out that they’re not all protecting each other~ I’ve managed to get several members of the House of Lords to back a call to reverse the DPPs decision.

    On the flipside, yet again, Special Branch/MI5 were monitoring Janner:

    No real surprise there…

    Stoner
    Free Member

    Why don’t the victims just publish all the evidence and claims they wish and leave it to janner to sue and defend in court. If the threshold of proof is only balance of probabilities and cps have conceded there’s enough evidence to warrant a charge, then they’re probably on safe ground, although I know the evidence tests are not the same.

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