"1,400 children were subjected to "appalling" sexual exploitation in Rotherham"

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  • "1,400 children were subjected to "appalling" sexual exploitation in Rotherham"
  • Tom_W1987
    Member

    What is wrong is that this case shows how normal moral considerations (by any sane judgement) can be subverted by a desire not appear racist. It is explicitly stated within the report. I’m not sure how you can double-speak your way back out of it, but you seem to be having a good go at it.

    So what is it then, moral considerations and politics etc or the actual hard investigation that was affected.

    You have yet to get back to me as to how the actual investigations over a decade were affected in a major way by political correctness. In the meantime, crimes against Asian girls are not being given due attention partly because of le shock horror…..racism.

    So I’m going to do a badnewzday here and say all Tories are complicit in the abuse of ethnic minority girls by encouraging racism.

    Tom, you could probably give a great argument that Kryptonite is the main ingredient in Fondant Fancies, it doesn’t mean your right!

    Perhaps I missed my calling in life and should befriend Peter Mandelson.

    devash
    Member

    In two of the cases we read, fathers tracked down their daughters and tried to remove them from houses where they were being abused, only to be arrested themselves when police were called to the scene. In a small number of cases (which have already received media attention) the victims were arrested for offences such as breach of the peace or being drunk and disorderly, with no action taken against the perpetrators of rape and sexual assault against children.

    From the actual report. I’ve always said police are part of the problem.

    badnewz
    Member

    It’s largely pointless arguing with enlightened souls like Tom, I’m afraid he is the successful product of years indoctrination of state education and media exposure to liberal ideas. He knows what to think, not how to think, and won’t change his mind. No point arguing really. Night all.
    Exit badnewz pursued by bear.

    Premier Icon MoreCashThanDash
    Subscriber

    Jeez, even by our own weird standards this thread has brought out some nutters on both sides 🙄

    devash
    Member

    Child A (2000)6 was 12 when the risk of sexual exploitation became known. She was associating with a group of older Asian men and possibly taking drugs. She disclosed having had intercourse with 5 adults. Two of the adults received police cautions after admitting to the Police that they had intercourse with Child A.

    Police caution for child abuse, yet poor Jules Assange has had police camped outside of the Ecuadorian embassy for 2 years and he hasn’t even been charged with anything, let alone in this country.

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    I’ll bet my house it wasn’t the cops working in those units that let these kids down. By all means slate the politicians at the top, or even the police as a whole if you must, but the ones at the coal face in those units generally work their bollocks off and are very committed to what they do.

    One of my sister’s ran a child protection unit for a few years when she was a DS. I understand the work they do and how committed they are.

    There have been a number of instances reported recently within units dealing with rape cases where a culture of, errm, meeting targets developed and the victims were either ignored, disbeleived or cases were marked as needign no further investigation. This was right down tot he ground, not just at a senior level.

    I don’t know which individual officers (and there must have been an awful lot involved over the period of time in question as they get rotated out fairly regularly) have done a poor job in these 1400 cases but a ‘culture’ of disbelieving reports sounds like it wasn’t only senior managers who were preventing investigation.

    thegreatape
    Member

    You’re right about the rape unit – Sapphire was it, in the Met?

    I edited my post anyway, it was based only on what I’ve seen, not on whatever has gone on in this force, so it’s irrelevant.

    dannyh
    Member

    Dannyh, the only reason was PC gone mad lefty police chiefs and council leaders ?
    It would be easy if reality was a simp!istic as that

    These girls are from the shit end of society,the same people described as scum, chavs etc on the council house neigbours thread from yesterday

    Their parents seem to have abandoned them or had them taken away, I believe most were in care, education and social services obviously hadn’t done enough to protect them.
    The police apparently had similar attitudes, untrustworthy, unreliable witnesses, not worth protecting, just chavs, skanks,slags, language you hear throughout society, scared of being called racist? I had no idea coppers are so delicate

    And ultimately these mainly Pakistani men viewed them even less as people and more as objects.

    Kimbers, from past experience you seem to be a functioning person with a mind of their own, so I’ll try to get my point across to you at least.

    I never said the perceived threat of being labelled racist due to ‘PC gone mad’ was the only reason.

    The social circumstances of a lot of the victims and society’s prejudiced (bitter irony here) attitudes towards them was a massive factor. Dare I say it, a bigger factor than the ‘PC’ issue. I would not deny that. If the victims had been from a more affluent background (irrespective of race), I doubt the lid would have been kept on for so long.

    I haven’t dismissed other factors at all.

    I just cannot stand people turning arguments inside out to justify their own hang-ups and agendas whatever the context. That is dogma and zealotry, and it should be exposed to the ridicule it deserves.

    kcr
    Member

    Failures by those charged with protecting children happened despite three reports between 2002 and 2006 which both the council and police were aware of, and “which could not have been clearer in the description of the situation in Rotherham”.

    So “political correctness” and “fear of being seen as racist” did not stop the problem from being reported correctly.

    …the first of these reports was “effectively suppressed” because senior officers did not believe the data. The other two were ignored…The report revealed some people at a senior level in the police and children’s social care thought the extent of the problem was being “exaggerated”.

    Prof Jay said: “The authorities involved have a great deal to answer for.”

    The responsible authorities failed to do their job properly and did not take the reports seriously. The BBC report does not suggest this was because of “political correctness”.

    Premier Icon epicyclo
    Subscriber

    devash – Member
    Child A (2000)6 was 12 when the risk of sexual exploitation became known….

    …Two of the adults received police cautions after admitting to the Police that they had intercourse with Child A.

    They admitted statutory rape and just got a caution?

    big_n_daft
    Member

    The responsible authorities failed to do their job properly and did not take the reports seriously. The BBC report does not suggest this was because of “political correctness”.

    you didn’t watch BBC Newsnight where this was the main thrust of the questions to interviewee’s

    big_n_daft
    Member

    There were calls for Shaun Wright, the Police and Crime Commissioner for South Yorkshire, to step down after it emerged that he was the councillor with responsibility for children’s services in Rotherham for part of the period covered by the report.

    the depth of the interconnections of those involved in covering this up is disurbing

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    If you actually read the report it doesn’t seem like a coverup, just pure incompetence mixed with some indifference.

    Perhaps I missed my calling in life and should befriend Peter Mandelson.

    Not the best idea under the circumstance… Links to Operation Ore and rumours abound about Lambeth care homes, not to mention close ties to Prince Andrew’s mate Jeffrey Epstein.

    the depth of the interconnections of those involved in covering this up is disurbing

    Same story repeated again and again;

    Jimmy Savile
    Cyril Smith
    Rochdale
    Bryn Estyn (Bryn Alyn Community)
    Dolphin Square
    Elm Guest House
    Lambeth
    Islington
    Jersey
    Medomsley
    Beechwood

    I could go on… secrets society hides are truly vile; we need to get to the root of why this collusion in organized abuse takes place.

    nealglover
    Member

    Not the best idea under the circumstance… Links to Operation Ore and rumours abound about Lambeth care homes, not to mention close ties to Prince Andrew’s mate Jeffrey Epstein.

    “Links”
    “Rumours”
    “Close ties”

    That’s enough “evidence” for one day jivebunny.

    Back in your hutch now, there’s a good lad..

    konabunny
    Member

    It seems like there is some massive and systematic failure of social services …

    it’s not surprising that a system fails when you expect it to solve difficult problems on bugger all money and burn through staff because it’s so stressful and poorly resourced.

    Premier Icon irc
    Subscriber

    Meanwhile as hundreds of children were being abused and trafficked the social work dept was busy removing children from people who voted for the wrong party.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20474120

    mudmuncher
    Member

    irc – Member

    Meanwhile as hundreds of children were being abused and trafficked the social work dept was busy removing children from people who voted for the wrong party.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20474120

    Absolutely unbelievable.

    These left wing lunatics are far more dangerous than the BNP etc.

    That’s enough “evidence” for one day jivebunny.

    Back in your hutch now, there’s a good lad..

    Ah, Mr Glover, champion of the vulnerable.

    Regarding Lambeth discuss the matter with the MP John Mann, he’ll clear things up for you…

    or if you’re too lazy to contact him, you could spend the time reading the letter in this link:

    http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5284/every-mp-asked-to-back-inquiry-into-organised-child-sex-abuse

    after all, it was only sufficient to spur national media coverage and a promise by the corrupt home secretary for a full inquiry; although for some reason, a suitable chair and acceptable Terms of Reference are yet to be finalized.

    the case gets stronger every day, but denial isn’t going to fix it.

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    a promise by the corrupt home secretary

    phrases like this really don’t strengthen the case of people who are trying to get wider acceptance of their beliefs. It just makes it look like they see the whole of government as a conspiracy against their world view.

    Premier Icon epicyclo
    Subscriber

    I’m still trying to get to grips how you can get a caution for admitting to sex with a 12 year old.

    That points to orders from above somewhere that should be investigated, either for gross incompetence or actual involvement.

    nealglover – Member
    Not the best idea under the circumstance… Links to Operation Ore and rumours abound about Lambeth care homes, not to mention close ties to Prince Andrew’s mate Jeffrey Epstein.
    “Links”
    “Rumours”
    “Close ties”

    That’s enough “evidence” for one day jivebunny.

    If I hadn’t seen a “paranoid conspiracy theorist” proven right on this subject once before, I’d probably agree with you.

    It is really unsettling how pervasive the paedophile networks are and how they seem to have people in just the right positions of power to derail any investigation, or worse still, actually conduct it.

    Blaming the victim seems common.

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    I’m still trying to get to grips how you can get a caution for admitting to sex with a 12 year old.

    Given the police’s view of the credibility of the witnesses I suspect that ‘someone’ decided to offer a caution in exchange for an admission of guilt rather than risk going to trial and ending up with no conviction.

    big_n_daft
    Member

    although for some reason, a suitable chair and acceptable Terms of Reference are yet to be finalized.

    the chair will help define the terms of reference, the problem is finding a chair with suitable experience who isn’t tainted directly or indirectly

    having said that arguably someone has written report about Rotherham which may be a very good job application

    If you actually read the report it doesn’t seem like a coverup, just pure incompetence mixed with some indifference.

    conspiracy implies intelligence and competence and people should go to jail

    incompetence and indifference imply the complete organisational culture failure of council, social services, and the police

    the complicit should be purged from public service forever

    Premier Icon epicyclo
    Subscriber

    So if I murdered someone, the evidence was flimsy, and I admitted it in an interview with the police, I’d get a caution? I thought an admission was evidence.

    Sorry, I know that’s reductio ad absurdem, but an admission of guilt?

    I can understand a lighter sentence in return for making it easier on the victim by accepting a guilty plea, but a slap on the wrist with a feather?

    Does this happen often and who makes the decision?

    konabunny
    Member

    Just out of interest, what light does this cast on the Muslamic Ray Gun meme?

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    epicyclo – I don’t know the details but I believe you can accept a caution without formally admitting guilt.

    Police issue cautions, no need for CPS involvement.

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    Absolutely unbelievable.

    These left wing lunatics are far more dangerous than the BNP etc.

    There’s perfectly good evidence based psychological reasons for taking those children away from those UKIPers, to do with the cultural background of the children etc.

    Hardly evidence of some left wing agenda. I suppose you would be happy with immigrant children or the children of immigrants growing up with people who dislike immigrants? You’re condoning the psychological abuse of children.

    a promise by the corrupt home secretary

    phrases like this really don’t strengthen the case of people who are trying to get wider acceptance of their beliefs. It just makes it look like they see the whole of government as a conspiracy against their world view.

    I see your point and perhaps that doesn’t help my case; doesn’t make it any less true though; of course, despite it being unlikely under the circumstance, the 114 lost files could be coincidental.

    However, revoking the visa of a journalist who was going to investigate child abuse on Jersey shows complicity:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/leah-mcgrath-goodman/david-miranda-uk-detention_b_3844480.html

    Given that a number of sources report a network of abusers within the care system trafficking children between Jersey, Islington, Lambeth and North Wales amongst others, not to mention a stash of extreme abuse images turning up in Belgium which appear to have been taken on Jersey, is it not fair to be a mite suspicious?

    Of course, the fact that Jimmy Savile tried to avoid association with Haut de la Garenne (the Jersey House of Horrors) may be a source of further suspicion.

    Given that there are several children who appear to have been sent to Jersey and gone missing (an issue raised in Parliament by MP John Hemming) you really have to wonder what the **** was going on there:

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/trenches-filled-with-lime-found-at-jersey-house-of-horrors-care-home-6693782.html

    So yep, I might be a nutjob, or I might have a case so hot that it could bring down the current government.

    big_n_daft
    Member

    There’s perfectly good evidence based psychological reasons for taking those children away from those UKIPers.

    enables the social workers to relieve workplace stress………?

    by achieving targets whilst ignoring multiple reports setting out the longterm endemic horrific real abuse of children in choots with the police who failed to investigate allegations and “lost” evidence presented by victims and council officers who failed their city?

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    enables the social workers to relieve workplace stress………?

    by achieving targets whilst ignoring multiple reports setting out the longterm endemic horrific real abuse of children in choots with the police who failed to investigate allegations and “lost” evidence presented by victims and council officers who failed their city?

    That’s a rather long way of saying that they should ignore immigrant children at risk of abuse by white people and only concentrate on the ones being abused by muslims.

    big_n_daft
    Member

    That’s a rather long way of saying that they should ignore immigrant children at risk of abuse by white people and only concentrate on the ones being abused by muslims.

    so all UKIP members are pathologically disposed to abuse immigrant children?

    you have a very polarised view of the world

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    you have a very polarised view of the world

    UKIP membership beckons.

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    so all UKIP members are pathologically disposed to abuse immigrant children?

    you have a very polarised view of the world

    Placing children with foster carers with views that will damage the self image of the children in their care is tantamount to abuse by the social services as they should know better and indirect or unconscious abuse by the UKIPers in question.

    Any shrink will tell you that, nothing to do with left wing ideology and everything to do with best practice. I suppose the psychiatrists are all left wing nutjobs with an agenda though.

    big_n_daft
    Member

    Placing children with foster carers with views that will damage the self image of the children in their care is tantamount to abuse by the social services as they should know better and indirect or unconscious by the UKIPers in question.

    so your view is that all UKIP members should be banned from fostering as their views will conciously or unconciously damage the self image of immgrant children in their care, or conciously or unconciously pass on their views to non-immigrant children in their care

    Any shrink will tell you that, nothing to do with left wing ideology and everything to do with medical best practice.

    your GMC number is?

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    so your view is that all UKIP members should be banned from fostering as their views will conciously or unconciously damage the self image of immgrant children in their care, or conciously or unconciously pass on their views to non-immigrant children in their care

    Yup, in regards to immigrant children.

    Premier Icon jambalaya
    Subscriber

    Seminars for elected members and senior officers in 2004-05 presented the abuse in the most explicit terms. After these events, nobody could say ‘we didn’t know’. In 2005, the present Council Leader chaired a group to take forward the issues, but there is no record of its meetings or conclusions, apart from one minute.

    @ninfan If wilful neglect like that isn’t grounds for a charge of misconduct in public office, then I don’t know what is!
    @ninfan – I think it’s more than misconduct, that’s a cover up

    This is quite an interesting social experiment: perhaps there aren’t any conspiracies after all…

    given the abuse I take for airing my extensively researched knowledge on the subject, when I provide background to show my claims aren’t just based on fantasy, everyone just carries on as if nothing happened:

    maybe it’s just when things are too big and scary, people ignore them through disbelief and fear.

    If we truly want change, open discussion and engagement is the only route to making things better.

    Premier Icon jambalaya
    Subscriber

    I am surprised some here don’t believe political correctness was an issue in this case. It seems very clear to me the council and the police where concerned about accusations of racism and so did not progress the investigations and take action as they should have done for fear of being labelled as “racist”

    As an aside UKIP isn’t against immigrants or immigration it’s against uncontrolled immigration from the EU. Americans are allowed to adopt children and they have controlled immigration in their country.

    Premier Icon jambalaya
    Subscriber

    If we truly want change, open discussion and engagement is the only route to making things better.

    Agreed @jive but STW likes name calling and insults

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