[Closed] Yesterdays shooting & todays protest.

Extra-judicial is just fancy pants speak for illegal isn't it? So the people doing the killings are criminals, so someone needs to kill them, and someone needs to kill the second killer and so on, until there are no internet hardmen left 😥

Recent Police shootings. I don't recall any "Community" unrest or anti-Racism groups getting involved

November 2016: Lewis Skelton, 31, was Tasered and shot dead by Humberside Police in Hull, amid reports he was "running around with an axe".
November 2016: Josh Pitt, 24, died after being shot by a firearms officer in Luton as Bedfordshire Police responded to reports that a woman had been assaulted.
May 2016: William Smith, 36, was shot dead in Goudhurst, Kent, while on bail in connection with the death of 73-year-old Roy Blackman.
March 2016: James Wilson, 24, died in hospital after being shot by Northumbria Police in South Shields after police responded to reports a man was holding a handgun.

Have a read of this, it has plenty of references race issues which is not surprising as its primarily a Muslim community racial justice group. Looks like the race card being played to me.

http://justyorkshire.org.uk/2017/01/06/justs-letter-to-the-ipcc-after-the-fatal-shooting-of-mohammed-yassar-yaqub/

His funeral was very well attended given he was a drug dealer, my belief is the mourners are there to support "the community" against a perceived racially motivated shooting.

His funeral was very well attended given he was a drug dealer, [b]my belief [/b]is the mourners are there to support "the community" against a perceived racially motivated shooting.

jambalaya - Member

Have a read of this, it has plenty of references race issues

No it hasn't. There is just one reference to race, namely that [i]"race is not discounted in this investigatory process".[/i] Which sounds like a perfectly fair comment to me, I certainly wouldn't get worked up about it - not unless I was a Daily Mail reading racist, I probably would then.

His funeral was very well attended given he was a drug dealer

Are the funerals of drug dealers usually noted for their poor attendance?

.

EDIT : You really are determined to get maximum mileage out of the fact that this guy was a Muslim, aren't you jambalaya ?

One of my clients had a massive funeral the police even blocked traffic for the horse drawn hearse and massive cortege. He was just a Hanoi burglar and possibly branching into supply when he died . Also he was white and mildly racist.
Many communities are close knit.

Just as my actual experience is not conclusive evidence your feelings don't really assist in forming a judgement.

Junkyard the BBC. I am sure the groups concerned have facebook and Twitter feeds and you can go to direct the source.

Googling your increasingly ludicrous claims is something that no one will ever try to do- I wish you would fact check your BS before posting as then we would just get punctuation in your posts

Please stop just lying and making stuff up whilst playing the race card as it makes you look like one of those knuckle dragging EDL who talks about Islamification of Britain and wants Britain to be about Britain

Jambalaya earlier I assume One of his more lucid moments

my belief is [s]the mourners are there to support "the community" against a perceived racially motivated shooting.[/s] at odds with the facts, totally unsubstantiated by reality and motivated by my deeply held , that some folk perceive as racist, dislike of all things Islamic

FTFY Mr robinson

So they want it investigating with a human rights slant ? last time I checked dealing drugs and carrying a firearm wasn't a human right ,

D'oh!

White crims always slip away from this mortal coil unnoticed and in shame..

Lenny McLean, The Krays, Ronnie Biggs and more recently Jamie Daniels, David Byrne

What planet do you live on jamba?

Junkyard - lazarus

Junkyard the BBC. I am sure the groups concerned have facebook and Twitter feeds and you can go to direct the source.

Its really basic stuff to be able to point to the stuff you are claiming were said otherwise you look like a potentially racist BS who is making things up - what sort of person would want to look like that ?

It's equally basic stuff to actually search google yourself in which case you would see that there was truth to what he was saying. The imam at his funeral called the police vigilantes and/or killers and if you care to go down a rabbit hole you'll find plenty of support for him on twitter - Black Lives Matter UK being a notably conspicuous one.

We should all be able to see that the "community" themselves made this a race issue when a group off hoods took to the streets, blocked traffic and attacked the police. The news broadcast I watched actually said "reminiscent of black lives matter in the states". Obviously that's lazy sensationalist journalism but that was the effect the group desired. If that hadn't happened there's no story other than a violent man meeting a violent end.

Removed.

If someone set up a group called white lives matter UK there would be a shit storm within 5 minutes, all that's apparent is people segregate themselves into groups with this BS then try to stake some sort of claim.

Rusty Spanner - Member

Planet [b]Racist[/b] it would appear

Junkyard
you look like a potentially racist BS who is making things up - what sort of person would want to look like that ?

That word isn't a magic spell which will make opinions you disagree with disappear, nor will it make the people who hold them vanish. It has been bandied about by regressive leftist ideologues so much that it has lost any and all substance. God help you if you ever meet a real racist.

Rusty Spanner
My point would appear to be self evident.

You have no point.

I've met quite a few, thanks.

I don't use the word lightly, but can find no other to express my opinion of Jambers current train of thought.

His bias and prejudice are obvious.
He refuses to engage in debate yet continues to repeat the same allegations.

Sorry, but there we are.

Calling the police vigilantes is in no way playing the race card Google what the Inman said I don't agree with him 100% but he spoke a lot about the values of British justice and not once said the police shot him because he was not white.
The dead man is from an Asian community he was shot and killed in a pre planned action when he did not get off a shot . The people most concerned about that will be those closest to him who will be Asian the people most likely to be spokesman asking questions for his family and community will be Asian those facts don't add up to " playing the race cards ."

It has been bandied about by regressive leftist ideologues so much that it has lost any and all substance.

^^This.

Jamba politics seem to be right wing, which the left wing hand wringers constantly scream "racist" at.

Not that I agree with much of what he posts, he's far from being a racist.

God help you if you ever meet a true racist.

crankboy
The dead man is from an Asian community he was shot and killed in a pre planned action when he did not get off a shot .

What's the standard number of shots you allow a suspect to "get off" before you return fire?

Pre-planned operation doesn't mean pre-planned killing.

Bottom line for me is - who would be happy living next door to Mr Yaqub?

Whatever the rights or wrongs of the shooting, it just sounds like he was a common criminal if the various stories that have appeared in the media are to be believed

I don't care what race or religion lives in my street but the thought of living next to an individual who may have made his money out of the misery of others isn't a pleasant one

philxx1975 - Member

So they want it investigating with a human rights slant ? last time I checked dealing drugs and carrying a firearm wasn't a human right ,

Well you don't seemed to have checked the contents of Jamba's link. As I said, there is just one reference to race, namely that [i]"race is not discounted in this investigatory process",[/i] a perfectly reasonable comment to make. Why don't you read the link?

And just to remind you, in case you've forgotten, the police have been known for being hampered by racism during operations. In fact the Macpherson Report famously went as far as saying that the Met police were "institutionally" racist.

And as recently as 18 months ago the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police said that the Met might still be [i]institutionally[/i] racist :

[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11655358/Met-chief-accepts-force-may-be-institutionally-racist.html ]Met chief accepts force may be 'institutionally racist'[/url]

But perhaps you think that West Yorkshire Police are paragons of virtue and that it is inconceivable that any hint of racism might exist within it. In which case the perfectly reasonable suggestion that "race is not discounted in this investigatory process" will pose no problem at all.

Black lives matter uk have tweeted a grand total of twice on the subject once calling for justice and once saying they offer support to the family in the investigation process . Not exactly inflammatory.

don't care what race or religion lives in my street

Completely agree.

Which is why the constant, incessant, playing of the race card by Jambers is so unpleasant.

gobuchul - Member

God help you if you ever meet a true racist.

Well obviously I've never met one. What are they like, and why would God have to help me?

jimjam the answer to your question is zero , but if a man is shot who has not himself fired it is easy to understand why his family and indeed society would need to understand the circumstances and reason for his killing . Not simply accepting the death without question.

It's equally basic stuff to actually search google yourself

That word isn't a magic spell which will make opinions you disagree with disappear, nor will it make the people who hold them vanish.

Why thanks you Sherlock you are proper high brow sort arent you

It has been bandied about by regressive leftist ideologues so much that it has lost any and all substance.

God help you if you ever meet a real racist.

Its interesting to see how this place is mirroring the real world as the loony RW and the racists amongst them slip from out of the shadows to spread and speak their ideology more openly
Also interesting to read that even the racist deny its racist to constantly play the race card on Muslims

I guess the battle that has been won is that even racists and their apologists know they cannot admit to it publicly so they will just deny it and attack those who will not stand for racism and challenge it everywhere they see it

Good way of you all self outing yourself as well

I have no real interest in engaging with racists but also feel we should not let their hatred go unchallenged

I dont even think its a left v right Cpt flash and THM Stoner and others would never ever say anythign like this and would challenge it as well so racism, though generally the preserve of the RW is not simply a right v left issue unless you are a simpleton form the RW persuassion

Junkyard

You must be very naive

Why thanks you Sherlock you are proper high brow sort arent you

And you are lecturing me on using empty rhetoric ...oh the irony

Have you got anything other than lazy ad hominem insults?

Junkyard- You seem to define anyone who wants to control immigration a "racist".

Looks like Germany must be heading to form the 4th Reich.

[url= https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/19/angela-merkel-admits-mistakes-asylum-seekers-election ]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/19/angela-merkel-admits-mistakes-asylum-seekers-election[/url]

“for some time, we didn’t have enough control”. “No one wants a repeat of last year’s situation, including me,” Merkel said.

gobuchul - Member

Junkyard- You seem to define anyone who wants to control immigration a "racist".

Stop. He confronts real racists every day. He's in a battle you see, and if you don't agree...well you're almost certainly a racist. A stupid, ignorant right wing racist. From the shadows no less.

You seem to define anyone who wants to control immigration a "racist".

Well this thread has been nicely derailed by those who are obsessed by the race angle. We are now talking about immigration control ffs.

ernie_lynch - Member

You seem to define anyone who wants to control immigration a "racist".

Well this thread has been nicely derailed by those who are obsessed by the race angle. We are now talking about immigration control ffs.

Well lets not. Let's talk about the "community outrage" and the blacklivesmatter style protest and the subsequent media coverage that made this a "race issue" shall we?

Have you got anything other than lazy ad hominem insults?

You seem to define anyone who wants to control immigration a "racist".

WHy oh why do folk think racists and their apologists are a bit thick?

LOving the self outing still of the EDL fanboys and that even they realise they cannot say openly say they are racist so they simply attack those who openly say they despise racists

IMHO all decent folk hate racists hence why you find yourself on the other side of the "debate" from me

jimjam - Member

Let's talk about the "community outrage"

Why? Because jambalaya brought it up?

Junkyard

for racists and their apologists i dont have much more than insults of them and their ideology as they are bigots who are beyond rational discourse.
I do so enjoy having a lecture from the hate filled nutters on how to be polite to folk you disagree with as I love a big dose of ignorant unintentional irony from the "intellectual right"

I'd just like to say that the bravery which you are so clearly displaying here, deep in the trenches of STW racist hell is admirable. No doubt many will see your bravery as a beacon, a mighty signal of virtue and they will regard you as true warrior for justice in the face of insidious evil.

Keep fighting the good fight. Your bravery will not go unnoticed. You are winning.

ernie_lynch

Let's talk about the "community outrage"

Why? Because jambalaya brought it up?

No because that's the only reason there's even a thread about this.

don't care what race or religion lives in my street

However if they start painting kerb stones red, white and blue; blocking the traffic to examine the detail of the road surface; painting nasty messages on my gate because I employ foreigners; insult or threaten me because I'm foreign; aggressively tout bits of paper about l'église le phare; or parade with banners calling to kill the police: I might start caring.

Look in the mirror, Junkyard, you're off on one again and it doesn't do you any good. A zealot of any brand is dangerous, even an anti-racism zealot - because they see racism everywhere even where it isn't - and conveniently forget that racism can work two ways. I've been on the receiving end of one of your tirades and just let you get on with it. You really aren't doing your cause any good, and it's a just one, so that's a pity.

You people are so predictable its hilarious to read,keep up the good work:)

Have you guys even seen the "protests"? Tiny and mostly just the rude bwoys being twerps as usual. Nothing special, less-so in Bradders.

Also - looks like you guys are gonna get yourselves banned, chillax 🙂

jambyfact which is just shorthand for lies.

I think this racism argument is gonna come up again and again and here's why.....

Some guys on here are worried about Islam and terrorism and maybe there is justification for that as we've all seen or heard things which have given us cause to be fearful...

BUT and it's a very big but. To focus a LOT of energy on this problem indicates something deeper, something more profound..
I'm afraid of flying but I don't campaign against aeroplanes.. I'm afraid of RTAs but I don't spend half my waking life trying to turn people against traffic...

A much more accurate comparison would be that I'm afraid of spider bites, but if I spent a huge amount of my life raising awareness of dangerous spiders, and attributing all sorts of global issues to spiders, making up lies about spiders, trying to get people to be as scared of spiders as I am and imagining spiders are trying to take over the planet and destroy the human race people would think, quite rightly, that I had a bit of a phobia..

So when certain forum members dedicate so much time to fearmongering, it's pretty conclusive evidence that they have an irrational fear, perhaps a strong enough fear to spread hateful messages..
In modern parlance, an irrational hatred of people with different coloured skin is racism, and people suffering from this mental illness spending so much time denying their problem is worrying for the rest of us in the world who are trying to get along with each other

Maybe one day when the use of the internet to publish our every thought has been explored more fully, when we have researched all the data we will perhaps be in a position to collate this evidence and offer medical help to the people suffering from hateful delusions.. and because hateful delusions are so destructive, perhaps we will realise that these people are actually a danger to themselves and others 😐

Well said.

yunki - Member

I think this racism argument is gonna come up again and again and here's why.....

No I much prefer Junkyard's explanation. He and his fellow arbiters of political correctness are always anti-racist. So if you disagree with them you that makes you a racist, and since all racists are thick you are also thick. By default.

Stupid people don't learn good and are in need of continual re-education.

I've been on the receiving end of one of your tirades and just let you get on with it.

No you didn't, you flounced and then decided to keep your views on some segments of French society under your hat.

You need to link me doing that, Duckman. Withdrawing from an debate when when you're getting insulted is not a flounce, it's refusing to be a victim and thus depriving the bully of his satisfaction.

I'm still against face covering in public which is I assume what you are referring to, correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm all for republican values and the secular state so when a local preacher started handing out homophobic "Manif pour Tous" tracts outside my local school (same street) I went home, raided Madame's wardrobe and went back to have debate with him (and thus distract him from handing out his tracts).

I was totally comfortable doing it as the guy was the same colour as me, similar age, same religion (if I have one) and male. Had he not been I'd have thought twice about challenging him because I'd have risked accusations of racism, being anti-religious or sexism - even though the focus of my intervention was the homophobic nature of his tracts. Because as Junki notes, even when your target has nothing to do with the sex, religion or ethnicity of your adversary you risk having the anti-religious, sexist or racist card pulled.

that's a cool story bro....

but what relevance does your fascinating anecdote have to combating the (slightly) racist bile that gets spat all over the forum on a daily basis?

the (slightly) racist bile

How does that work?

How can you be "slightly" racist?

And if it's only slight, then how could it be bile?

Racism: Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

A lot of the stuff on here that is called racism by the hand wringers, never, ever, suggests that they are superior to another race of people.

It is pretty fundamental to the definition.

A lot of the stuff on here that is called racism by the hand wringers, never, ever, suggests that they are superior to another race of people.

It is pretty fundamental to the definition.

Just watch how much they jump up and down when someone points out that Muslim isn't a race...

Is there any chance we could get back to talking about Bradford at some point?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>other threads

Well, this bit made me laugh, you've not quite grasped shorthand yet, have you?

😀

gobuchul, I agree.
But a focus on criticising the behaviour of one particular group, behaviour seemingly inherent in humanity regardless of race or religion, is indicative of the type of behaviour eloquently outlined in Yunki's post.

The superiority is evident from the hypocricy, surely?

just lols 😆

hateful bastards with hateful agendas brought about by fear and cowardice and tempered with wilful ignorance

I'm afraid of spider bites, but if I spent a huge amount of my life raising awareness of dangerous spiders, and attributing all sorts of global issues to spiders, making up lies about spiders, trying to get people to be as scared of spiders as I am and imagining spiders are trying to take over the planet and destroy the human race people would think, quite rightly, that I had a bit of a phobia..

hateful bastards with hateful agendas

I agree, lefties really do hate anyone who dares disagree with them, don't they?

😆

you're a funny lil man

This thread must be a candidate for a "sticky" by now? 😉

Only in your trousers.

Some really interesting stuff in here worthy of a sensible discussion.

QED

So, enlighten us then.

The M62 shooting is such a simple story, containing so few facts, that people with an agenda have filled in the blanks for themselves.

The full truth may never emerge, because:

1. The family and friends of Yassar Yaqub can't be trusted to give an honest account.

2. The police can't be trusted to give an honest account.

But the truth doesn't matter. Because right-wing authoritarians have already decided that Yassar Yaqub was a gangster, and that alone justifies his killing by the police at the side of a motorway.

Right-wing authoritarians must be delighted. The police have shown themselves to be tough on crime, they did NOT show preferential treatment to a Muslim, and they have sent out a "powerful message" to the criminal fraternity.

So guys, what are you still bitching about?

[img] [/img]

ninfan - Member

Just watch how much they jump up and down when......

I notice that you now repeatedly describe people who disagree with you as "jumping up and down".

Is this your latest school yard taunt.........it's so hurtful! 🙂

I find your limited use of vocabulary when engaged in a debate with someone fascinating ninfan.

1. The family and friends of Yassar Yaqub can't be trusted to give an honest account.
2. The police can't be trusted to give an honest account.

I'm not particularly interested in the arguments going on in this thread, nor do I have any opinion yet on this incident, since the accounts and explanations of what happened have not been made public yet.

But something that seems to be becoming more widely recognised, particularly in the context of police shootings (UK and elsewhere), and might be interesting to some, is the idea of unconscious bias. It's something I was unaware of until after Mark Duggan was shot by the police. There are plenty of articles about it, this is just one.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/11/science-of-racism-prejudice

It's quite interesting, if you like understanding how things work.

I think the Police will find it very difficult to be anything other than honest, to be fair.

I have no idea what happened.

But if it means we have a bit more focus on the extent of the heroin trade locally and nationally then some good may come out of it all.

And we did have genuine riots a few years ago.
Hopefully we've moved on a bit since then.
The comparative lack of focus on race in the media seems to reflect the feelings of most people I've spoken to.

You'll always get people who focus unecessarily on one thing, but everyone else just gets on with their lives.

I think the Police will find it very difficult to be anything other than honest.

You don't have to do much googling to realise that the opposite is the case, unfortunately.

I'm an optimist.
🙂

It's a sad thing that someone has been killed & It's just as sad that it won't stop anyone else dealing drugs (If that is indeed what the deceased was)
There'll be some happy drug dealers who've already taken over his customers.

thegreatape - Member

But something that seems to be becoming more widely recognised, particularly in the context of police shootings (UK and elsewhere), and might be interesting to some, is the idea of unconscious bias.

Macpherson made that point in his 1999 report into the Met when he described institutional racism as :

[b][i]"The collective failure of an organisation to provide an appropriate and professional service to people because of their colour, culture, or ethnic origin. It can be seen or detected in processes, attitudes and behaviour which amount to discrimination through unwitting prejudice, ignorance, thoughtlessness and racist stereotyping which disadvantage minority ethnic people."[/i][/b]

Note [i]"through [u]unwitting prejudice[/u], ignorance, thoughtlessness and racist stereotyping".[/i]

I have no doubt at all that UK policing has improved massively in that respect since the Stephen Lawrence tragedy. But it would be foolish to assume that all cases of unwitting prejudice, ignorance, thoughtlessness and racist stereotyping, no longer occur within UK police forces.

esselgruntfuttock - Member

It's a sad thing that someone has been killed & It's just as sad that it won't stop anyone else dealing drugs (If that is indeed what the deceased was)
There'll be some happy drug dealers who've already taken over his customers.

Good point well said.

I think this racism argument is gonna come up again and again and here's why.....

That's possibly the most insightful thing you've ever posted on here. Well said.

But it would be foolish to assume that all cases of unwitting prejudice, ignorance, thoughtlessness and racist stereotyping, no longer occur within UK police forces.

Indeed - only a fool would think that. While there have been improvements within the police about understanding and reducing conscious prejudice over the last 15-20 years, I'm not sure that the presence of unconscious bias - being subconsciously prejudiced even when consciously resolved not to be - is particularly well understood or appreciated, certainly not at a grassroots level anyway.