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You are all Ross Kemp and I claim my £5.
I saw Ross Kemp in an airport once. A lot shorter than he looks on TV I thought.
Lol. You go and stand in front of the car then.
+1
Funny how the never ending queue of people claiming they could take out violent armed scumbags without ever firing a shot never volunteer to be Firearms officers.
I never said I was willing to do the job, just throwing an alternative perspective in to the mix.
Remember Mark Duggan / Hillsborough?
Whatever this guy's background, shooting the guy should have been a last resort and given Bradford's delicate relationships with the Police then big questions will be asked. The lack of body cameras is a West Yorkshire wide thing, though you'd have thought it might have been a wise exception in this case.
I expect that the findings from the IPCC will determine that it was a lawful shooting, with any evidence to the contrary being discredited. Accusations of a cover-up will be rife and who knows what after that.
Why is the relationship with the community and the Bradford constabulary delicate?
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/04/family-man-shot-dead-police-join-mp-appeal-calm-protests/ ][/url]
Worth a read.
Why is the relationship with the community and the Bradford constabulary delicate?
At a ( probably seen as racist)guess..
Large Asian Population, with a largely Non- Asian Police Force?
outofbreath - MemberFunny how the never ending queue of people claiming they could take out violent armed scumbags without ever firing a shot never volunteer to be Firearms officers.
Except Steven Seagal.
I don't understand why that would make the relationship delicate.
It has to be more complicated than that.
Years ago there were riots in Bradford (2001 & 1995) I expect that prior to, and since then relationships between a largely Asian youth and White Police force hasn't been the greatest. Throw this in to the mix, with the back-drop of the Mark Duggan shooting and I can't imagine its all nice as pie.
When pulled over by armed police (one with a drawn handgun, one with a sub-machine gun and one bizarrely in riot gear with a baseball bat) I turned the engine off as I stopped and then sat perfectly still with both hands in view until one of the police signaled to wind the window down. Doing anything else would have been suicidal.
Ferris & Pigface - also, a police car was shot at outside a Bradford nightclub in the early hours of Christmas day.
I don't really see why it's anything to do with Bradford, what with it happening in Huddersfield, armed officers being based in Wakefield and the chap living in Huddersfield!
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/04/family-man-shot-dead-police-join-mp-appeal-calm-protests/ ][/url]Worth a read.
If even 10pc of that is true I can see why the rozzers might have needed to defend themselves in this way.
I don't really see why it's anything to do with Bradford
Perhaps he had a lot of customers in Bradford.
Come on Edukator, you need to carry on the story....
That's Pieface not me, the only knowledge I know is that shooting a gun in a car will really mess with your hearing and can be physically paiful
There's no more to tell, Morecashthandash, other than we were in the Spanish Basque country in a French registered van and ETA had been busy.
MoreCashThanDash - MemberCome on Edukator, you need to carry on the story....
Probably pulled by intertroll. 😉
How much of a threat would have have been shooting from inside the car?Even if he had a gun, I imagine getting an accurate shot from the drivers seat would be very slim, and as the Police would most likely be wearing body armour, this could be seen as an over-reaction to an overall low-risk situation.
Definite candidate for the most idiotic post on here for a while.
Definite candidate for the most idiotic post on here for a while.
It's the post that keeps giving, the more I read it the more amusing stupidity I find in it.
[i]Definite candidate for the most idiotic post on here for a while. [/i]
Until someone comes up with the 'shoot the gun out of his hand' option.
Until someone comes up with the 'shoot the gun out of his hand' option.
There's a Youtube vid of an American cop doing just that to a "suicide by cop" bloke waving a gun at the police.
"Black lives matter" clearly have so justified grievances but there are equally criminals and people with mental health issues of all colours and creeds who do some very daft and provocative things when faced with armed police.
#drugdealerslivesmatter 🙂
Parents have given an interview. Apparently he was a "kind hearted boy" and they can't understand why he was shot.
There's a Youtube vid of an American cop doing just that to a "suicide by cop" bloke waving a gun at the police.
I suspect a lot of marksman would be willing to try if the guy was just threatening to shoot himself - less so if they were threatening to shoot anyone else though.
Parents have given an interview. Apparently he was a "kind hearted boy" and they can't understand why he was shot
I heard also that the father said he was "spoiled" and that he (the father) had bought all the fancy cars for him. Delusional.
Apparently he was a "kind hearted boy"
I believe Al Capone was good to his mother.
[i]There's a Youtube vid[/i]
I've seen the video thanks yonks ago, and I knew it would be suggested by a troll. Bloke was sat down in the open, no immediate threat.
Apparently he was a "kind hearted boy"
He gave free hugs with each kilo of Heroin.
The one in the US where the gun was shot out of the blokes hand was a one off I think. The marksman was relatively close, was prone, had a solid rest on the rifle and spotted a pattern with the way the subject was moving the pistol. I still say he was lucky (and a good shot).
I'm also not sure why you'd call a known drug dealer with a potential firearm going against people in body armour low risk. It's not just the chance of the round striking the 10"x13" plate (call it about 9% of your body's surface area), you have head, arms, legs, other people downrange...
Any time there is a gun involved, it's high risk.
The one in the US where the gun was shot out of the blokes hand was a one off I think. The marksman was relatively close, was prone, had a solid rest on the rifle and spotted a pattern with the way the subject was moving the pistol. I still say he was lucky (and a good shot).
"I was aiming for his head" 😀
Andy R - Member
chewkw - Member
I just noticed one of the London force was using Ruger Mini-14 (5.56) in the past ... niccee ... one of my favourite if I were to own one."One of my favourites"?? Why would you ever want to own one ?
Okay folks don't get too excited coz I ain't buying one in the UK. I repeat I ain't going to get anything at all Okay.
Like any technology I just happen to like them things that can hurl projectile at fast speed, just like Ruger GP100 or Ruger GP100 Match Champion for sport competition ... but does not mean I want to get one desperately.
The rules regarding firearm in the UK are so severely strict I doubt the police has a trigger happy "Quick Draw McGraw" approach to firearm incident.
Well the latest on the Beeb channel:
"A man shot dead in a police operation off the M62 died from gunshot wounds to chest, post-mortem tests have shown".
Update with Regards the firearm found:
So if the rules were...
"Those found to be carrying illegal firearms will be shot without provocation upon confirmation of a firearm being present"
Do you think people would still break the law?
AFAIK wtf would a member of the public need a firearm for outside of recreation, you certainly don't need one for pottering about on the m62?
..you clearly don't use J24 of the '62; copper probably just lost his shit trying to figure out which exit off the roundabout to head north on the '629.
Seriously though, bravo everyone on talking this much bollocks on something nobody knows anything about 🙂
So the dead man was an office clerk by trade. I am clearly in the wrong job if an office clerk can afford super cars 🙁
The whole Bradford thing is odd and could start all kinds of racism calls on here.
However Bradford has the largest number of uninsured drivers in the U.K. and nothing appears to happen.
Many big legit businesses in Bradford have been built up on the proceeds of drug money.
Relations have always been strained in Bradford and it definitely feels like the Status Quo is just maintained to avoid trouble/the race card coming out.
Shooting a fellow drug dealer is not maintaining the status quo, hence why the local Bradfordians (with nice big farms in ****stan) got a little upset
I'm glad there is one less person carrying a gun around...even if he was a nice lad, after all he never actually got done for attempted murder
AFAIK wtf would a member of the public need a firearm for outside of recreation, you certainly don't need one for pottering about on the m62?
Unless you actually know who your'e going to 'bump' [s]into[/s] off maybe?
AFAIK wtf would a member of the public need a firearm for outside of recreation, you certainly don't need one for pottering about on the m62?
You're crapping me? Between middle lane hoggers, tail gaters and non-use of indicators/mirrors, I'd be able to pop a few caps into a few asses on a daily basis. 😛
Take with a massive pinch of salt....
[img] 
[/img]
via [url=
Bradford[/url]
It's cheaper for us tax payers that they shot him, keeping him in prison is expensive, and we have 1 less gun carrying drug dealer of the streets, that's my call on it.
Take with a massive pinch of salt....
Quite. As likely to be someone with a grudge against the alleged informant as anything else. Not like a supergrass is going to be checking in on Facebook "King Meggy is at Bradford police station with DCI Smith - Just grassing, lol".
Tis a sad day when an office clerk can't carry a 9mm pistol, ammunition, and a silencer around the city without the police shooting him.
Overall I would be inclined to agree, however I have my suspicions that in this case there is at least a grain of truth to it so I posted it. No way for us to be sure, but I thought it might be of interest.
I'll refrain from posting more speculation at this point.
Dont people say 'I have my suspicions' when they actually have some first had information about the people involved? did you know him then?
I'll refrain from posting more speculation at this point.
Yes that would be nice.
>did you know him then?
Absolutely not.
I am merely weighting the post as of interest based on the number of reactions from the local community on FB and that's only because:
1 - A "secret" is something you tell to only one person.
2 - There's divisions within the community meaning information circulates in some quarters before others.
>Yes that would be nice.
Feel free to pull it.
Tis a sad day when an office clerk can't carry a 9mm pistol, ammunition, and a silencer around the city without the police shooting him.
His mistake was being in the Audi, made him look like an ordinary criminal. Had he been in the yellow Lambo the police would have understood how important he was and acted accordingly.
I have posted before how I think fear of being called racist and general tone of political correctness has made police work very difficult (eg Rotherham, Oxford sex abuse scandals) and we see the same here. Armed drug dealer shot and we get the "race card" played repeatedly.
There is nothing wrong with speculation, it is what it is. Sometimes it turns out to be false and sometimes it turns out to be true.
It's cheaper for us tax payers that they shot him, keeping him in prison is expensive, and we have 1 less gun carrying drug dealer of the streets, that's my call on it.
Ignoring for a minute that your logic seems to give the police impunity to kill anyone they are confident is an armed drug dealer (which inevitably will result in someone wrongly being killed for someone else's grudge); have you any idea what an IPCC investigation and coroners inquest (with Jury) will cost the public purse?
have you any idea what an IPCC investigation and coroners inquest (with Jury) will cost the public purse?
Weighing everything up in financial terms is an unending rabbit hole of what if's.
jambalaya - MemberI have posted before how I think fear of being called racist and general tone of political correctness has made police work very difficult (eg Rotherham, Oxford sex abuse scandals) and we see the same here. Armed drug dealer shot and we get the "race card" played repeatedly.
This is a good example of you ignoring the facts to suit your argument. There is no evidence that the race card has been played "repeatedly".
Here is an article specifically concerning how the solicitors for the family of Mohammed Yassar Yaqub are demanding answers from the police. Not once is race mentioned, never mind "repeatedly".
In fact if it wasn't for the names and the photos you could easily assume that it was about the death of a white British man.
[url= http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/lawyers-family-man-shot-dead-9577681 ]Lawyers for family of man shot dead by police on M62 'demand answers' in controversial Facebook posts[/url]
I guess the only people allowed to question the actions of the police, according to you jambalaya, are white people. Otherwise they are playing the race card.
And why are you claiming that this case shows how political correctness has made police work "very difficult"? They apparently shot and killed him, how could it have been made easier without "political correctness"?
indeed there is no end to the ludicrous idiotic ways you will play the race card in any given scenario oh unless its th eddinald speaking then you never mention itI have posted before how I think fear of being called racist and general tone of political correctness has made police work very difficult
STFU and stop playing the race card them whilst moaning that the race card has been playedArmed drug dealer shot and we get the "race card" played repeatedly.
OH the irony
I don't see race as an issue here tbh.
Happy to attempt to discuss it sensibly though if anyone would care to share?
Every place I've ever lived the criminals seem to reflect the demographic of the area.
You seem to get white drug dealers in predominantly white areas and Asian drug dealers in predominantly Asian areas etc.
Hardly surprising.
And apologies to Flashy too.
My response, written in sad anticipation, was uncalled for.
Sorry fella.
I don't see race as an issue here tbh.
Yes and no.
The police shooting was colour blind. Man with gun gets shot. Simple logic.
Response by local people of the same race? Very much racial. The protesters are blind to his current and previous crimes as he's a 'nice asian boy'. Their racial prejudices allow them to ignore the fact he's a career crim, with a history of gun offences.
ScottCheggResponse by local people of the same race? Very much racial. The protesters are blind to his current and previous crimes as he's a 'nice asian boy'. Their racial prejudices allow them to ignore the fact he's a career crim, with a history of gun offences.
They're not blind to, or ignoring anything. They'll be acutely aware of his criminality. Standard practice in Northern Ireland - the police arrest a paramilitary/drug dealer/drug dealing paramilitary the local hoods riot on some kind of sectarian discrimination premise. Particularly laughable and transparent when it was loyalist drug gangs using the term PSNIRA.
It allows gangsters to immediately reassert their presence and take control of their community and it allows lower ranking members to prove themselves.
It's bound to happen.
The 'race card' will always be played by all sides to some extent.
To see a similar non racial community response, look at the Brian Deneke case.
His murderer's defence was basically 'He's one of us, a nice boy'.
[url= https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Brian_Deneke ]Link.[/url]
Communities close ranks.
It's what people do and have always done.
Criminals lie to defend their own, regardless of race.
I didn't know him but I was talking to one of his 'best friends' the other day.
Essel, i can't imagine your chat was in a 'social setting'; sounds more like work - yours, not his with him talking through the cell door.
I live within 15 miles of huddersfield and know a senior copper who works in huddersfield-halifax area.
They can't/won't comment publicly about specific case but have said, off the record, that families of ****stani and bangladeshi origin run the drugs trade in the area and have strong ethnic links to bradford and firearms are being used almost with impunity.
Parents are invariably in denial when son - always a son - is accused of or proven to be nasty piece of work.....he was a good boy, loved his family, went to mosque, said his prayers.
Robust policing is appropriate in some situations and this, to me, looks like one of those.
Yes, i know, nothing proven - yet.
My view would be exactly the same if the 'victim' had 1000 years of anglo-saxon lineage.
as rusty noted the thugs reflect the wider communityfamilies of ****stani and bangladeshi origin run the drugs trade in the area
In manchester its white working class folk who run it and largely form the gangs
As is the case in Liverpool
I am not sure why we are being harsh in parents who were hoodwinked by their child and were unaware they were gun toting drug dealers. All it shows is that the parents were decent people with no involvement in criminality nor knowledge of that community and their son lied to them.
Its quite unlikely one will ever say well the dirty criminal bastard had it coming to him didn't he whatever the skin colour
Not really sure what the point is in making this a race issue
I don't see that anyone is making this a race issue.
Some are intent on seeing racial overtones in posts where none exist.
As for robust policing where appropriate - we need more of it.
It's pretty much as per the best line in the film "layer Cake":
"That's where playing at being a gangster gets you" uttered whilst leaning over dead body in a freezer.........
Frankly, our police and laws are so handicapped by having to be PC etc it's amazing our police are even allowed guns at all. Think about it for a sec. How do YOU fancy walking up to a car, with occupants you know nothing about, where there is a strong possibility and previous hard evidence of them being armed. Seriously, think about it. What do YOU do for a job? What are your chances of being killed every day at work? Loads of people can be all gung-ho whilst sat at home in front of the TV typing on the internet, but faced with the reality of the situation i'm going to suggest it'd be a very different situation.......
Seriously though, bravo everyone on talking this much b*** on something nobody knows anything about
STW is Champions League standard at this 😆
I used to be acquainted with a lad who sounds very much like this chap. My ex's mate was his 'kept woman', away from his traditional family, so I ended up in his company every so often.
Based in West Yorks, same deal going on as he ran a posh car hire business during the day and used to go about in some lovely motors. The open secret was he was one of the leading dealers in town though and I heard more than once that he had heavy involvement in a well publicized axe murder. I obviously have no proof but neither was it well hidden.
To be fair, if you met him without knowing any other details he came across as a very nice bloke. Full of himself for sure but pleasant company and very personable. I imagine his parents would justifiably say the same if he met a similar end.
our police and laws are so handicapped by having to be PC etc it's amazing our police are even allowed guns at all
COuld you cite the specific areas of our judiciary system that are so hampered by PC that its a problem?
Seems to me you are sounding off where you have no real expertise moaning iat others sounding off with no real expertise
what sort of danger do you face daily at work then Arnie?
West Yorks Police recruitment for new officers opened for the first time in a good while this week....
I don't see that anyone is making this a race issue.
Some are intent on seeing racial overtones in posts where none exist.
As for robust policing where appropriate - we need more of it.
"Robust Policing" covers quite a wide range - from the Guardia Civil to Rodrigo "I throw drug dealers from helicopters" Duterte.
What do we mean, by robust policing?
Ernie do you follow the news, aside from the mini riot more than one local Muslim group raised the issue. The guy was an armed drug dealer cocky enough to post pictures of himself with his Lambo. As above "playing" at being a gangster isn't a strategy for a long life,
Junkyard issues of political correctness and concerns about being branded racists massively handicapped the police in Rotherham and Oxfordshire. 1400 children abused in Rotherham alone. Such political correctness is a masive problem.
^^^^Like
you cite the same things endlessly to explain how massive a problem PC is- they are all you cite when asked- have you any more issues to show its rampant and hindering th epolice with say drug dealers after all that is what we are discussing
Plenty of white folk praised Moaty and DUggan the cop killer
I fail to recall you denigrating white folks in that case
SOURCE PLEAAEmore than one local Muslim group raised the issue
I am not sure why i am bothering to discuss this with our race card playing xenophobe who flirts ,powell like, with racist terminology whilst staying with the rules on here
I wonder what you say in private when you dont have to be PC?
It doesn't look like 'PC' stopped the police actually doing their job, though.
Gun toting violent criminal gets comeuppance. Pretty much a non-story. The sooner the obligatory investigation exonerates the coppers concerned and they get back to protecting law abiding people the better.
Bugger all to do with race/colour/creed, everything to do with a bad person carrying the means to kill innocent people.
jambalaya - MemberErnie do you follow the news, aside from the mini riot more than one local Muslim group raised the issue. The guy was an armed drug dealer cocky enough to post pictures of himself with his Lambo. As above "playing" at being a gangster isn't a strategy for a long life,
Interesting comment, but what exactly has [i]"The guy was an armed drug dealer cocky enough to post pictures of himself with his Lambo"[/i] or [i]""playing" at being a gangster isn't a strategy for a long life"[/i] got to with your bizarre claim that the race card has been played "repeatedly"? The only person who keeps going on about race, repeatedly, appears to be you.
And your equally bizarre claim that this incident proves that, quote, [i]"political correctness has made police work very difficult".[/i] I asked you to explain how shooting and killing him could have been made easier without "political correctness".
Well?
And BTW I have expressed no opinion whatsoever concerning Mohammed Yassar Yaqub, so I have no idea at all why you are telling that he was cocky or that he had a poor strategy for a long life.
Nor have I expressed any opinion whatsoever concerning whether the police action was correct. I am perfectly prepared to wait for the conclusions of the Independent Police Complaints Commission. I am particularly interested in knowing why apparently no police officers were wearing body cameras since it presumably would have made the job of the IPCC so much easier.
Just for the record, that "like" was for the post two above regarding taking on new officers.
Vexed!
Tom, stop being silly; my comment about 'robust policing' clearly refers to the uk and not the philipines.
Your attempt to make a connection with duterte doesn't deserve a response.
Ernie, it was a general comment about the environment the police are having to work in. Immediately after the shooting you have the mini riot and the local Muslim groups commenting. The other remarks weren't aimed specifically at you just general comments/responce to the thread. So apologies if they came across as aimed at you. The situation in Rotherham should be a major wake up call to us all regarding political correctness and convern about being branded racist, applies to the Police, social services and local politicians all who failed catastrophically.
Junkyard the BBC. I am sure the groups concerned have facebook and Twitter feeds and you can go to direct the source.
frankconway - MemberTom, stop being silly; my comment about 'robust policing' clearly refers to the uk and not the philipines.
Your attempt to make a connection with duterte doesn't deserve a response.
To be fair he asked you what you meant by 'robust policing' and he gave you an extreme range to make the point that robust policing can mean different things to different people.
So what do you mean by robust policing? You say you want "more" of it, what does that mean - more shootings and less arrests?
It's difficult to understand your point if you don't explain it clearly 💡
Yep - more extra judicial killings please, especially if they are left wing virtue signalling w*****rs.
So what do you mean by robust policing? You say you want "more" of it, what does that mean - more shootings and less arrests?
To be fair it would up the deterrent level and fix the prison staffing issues. We could just have the nice criminals in prison then.
I couldn't find anything on BBC or Google via google search of Muslim groups saying the shooting was racist , the guardian reported a community leader saying some young men on the street were concerned it was which is not the same at all .
Interesting that the image on Khan's solicitors website suggests the copper fired passed the Audi driver to shoot his passenger , the gun was in the passenger footwell so either a targeted assassination of the passenger in an unnecessarily complicated way or the passenger did something to draw the coppers attention and make him think he needed to deploy lethal force . Obviously all speculation based on minimal information.
To be fair it would up the deterrent level
How do you know it would up the deterrent level? It could just mean that criminals might be more likely to shoot at police officers before they shot at them.
When the Great Train Robbers got 30 years despite not having any firearms many people thought it would act as a deterrent. What actually happened was that criminals committing robberies became more likely to have firearms, since firstly you don't get much more than 30 years for murder, and secondly spending 30 years in prison wasn't much more desirable than being shot dead.
So as a consequent of these "deterrent sentences" criminals in the UK became more violent.
Yup bring back hanging for the violent
bainbrge - Member
Yep - more extra judicial killings please, especially if they are left wing virtue signalling w*****rs.
Would you like to take on that responsibility? Or do you prefer others getting their hands dirty on your behalf?