Work related expenses (wtf content)

Molgrips is misunderstood. Who’d have thought!

you pay for your own lunch at work during working hours when you’re not traveling, why should they pay for your lunch during your working hours when you are traveling?

Cos it costs about 80p at home and £3 or more for something when I’m out.

Just take a packed lunch then?

Cos it costs about 80p at home and £3 or more for something when I’m out.

So it’s £10 odd “lost” then (ish)

And you’ve saved on buying five days Breakfast and Dinner.

And you think you are “out of pocket” somehow ?

I wonder why sometimes people think your threads are a bit….. Pointless ?

I’m amazed that mol actually manages to cope in the real world at all. The list of minor things that send him into full “woe is me” introspective guff is awesome. Its like adrian mole grew up (well got older) and got a mountain bike 😀

IMO I don’t think there is a discrepancy in your companies policy.

To justify lunch as an expense it would have to be necessary due to being located away from your normal workplace to pay in excess of what is considered ‘normal’. It is perfectly reasonable for them to assume that if a temporary workplace has a canteen then you would use it and therefore the amount you would pay is a ‘normal’ amount*, if you chose not to then that is entirely your choice and not a result of the travel. If the temporary workplace does not have a canteen then you have no choice but to buy lunch elsewhere which is likely to be more expensive, and in these circumstances they have agreed to reimburse you.

The fact that you make a sandwich on a normal day is neither here nor there; you still have that option available.

* I’ve had this discussion during a HMRC audit when contracting at a company that had a works canteen. I didn’t use it and bought sandwiches which I claimed for and apparently wasn’t entitled to.

He just needs a woman. He’ll be fine then.

full “woe is me” introspective guff

Eh?

Are you happy yet that you are not being left out of pocket by the overall situation?

Or have you suddenly worked out that five days Breakfasts and Dinners at home cost you less than £10.

Cos it costs about 80p at home and £3 or more for something when I’m out.
So it’s £10 odd “lost” then (ish)

But if you are out for 5 days and work pay for your other meals you are actually getting 15 meals for £15 if you buy your own lunch .Compare that with the how much do you spend on shopping thread and you are quids in compared with most people !!

Compare that with the how much do you spend on shopping thread and you are quids in compared with most people !!

He would.

but despite appearing to be bothered about the money, he’s got no idea how much he spends on food at home.

Not sure calling everyone thick bastards is going to get the best response….

These threads take a familiar path:

Molly asks partial question
Several people respond
Molly argues the toss revealing a little more (maybe)
Several people respond
Repeat to fade…

One thing I’ve made my mind up about from some of these types of threads is that I’m quite relieved that:
a) I don’t employ some people here
b) I don’t work with some people here
c) I don’t work for some people here
I reckon Samuri would be quite good to work for, except I have no idea what he does and I suspect that my skills aren’t transferable.

I’m just waiting for the OP to reveal that he’s based his whole argument on something a colleague told him rather than the actual rules.

We can then see him wielding his sword of justice/righteous indignation and attempts to retrieve 2 years worth of lunch money across 15 threads during the next 6 months until even he loses the will to live and gives it up as a bad lot.

Find out the actual rules? Molgrips is too busy flexing his muscles.

You get an extra dimension to molgrips threads when you see what his wife posts on mumsnet 🙂

HTF did this go to over 200 posts?

I think the bloke is quite right to be pissed off. If your company sends you away from home they should cover all of your reasonable living expenses.

I can only think that the people who don’t see this never travel for work at all.

I have had jobs where I lived on the road, and I agree that your costs should be covered. The problem is that we haven’t even begun to establish the facts i.e. Molgrips may be able to claim most of his lunches, but just has to suck it up the odd week he is in the London office.

The other thing is, expenses aren’t free money to the company. So if they have done the sums, and they aren’t willing to spend extra money where they are running a staff canteen, so be it. Their money, their rules.

Needs a woman? Not sure that would work if he makes this fuss over lunch imagine how he’d reactnto spending money on something really important – like shoes 😀

I know this is based in Shandyshire but could this be solved by having
breakfast dinner and then tea

rather than

breakfast, lunch and dinner?

I know this is based in Shandyshire

We focus on the important things down south, dontchaknow.

Phew, that’s a relief, people power!

If your company sends you away from home they should cover all of your reasonable living expenses.

And it would appear that’s exactly what’s happening in this case.

In fact, from the figures already mentioned by the OP. Its entirely likely that they are more than “covering his expenses” and he’s actually in profit at the end of the week.

Happy days eh ?

I may have missed this but are these London offices a client site or just the OP’s company at a different location?

This thread is STW at its best. 7 pages of nonsense but I just can’t help having a peep now and again 😆

I shall attempt some constructive contribution though. I have worked away from home for many years, often only 2 or 3 nights away at a time, but usually in places where it is impractical to bring my own lunch from home. In those circumstances it is perfectly reasonable to expect work to pay reasonable expenses to cover lunch. Whether the expense policy does or not is another matter and frankly the issue of how much I have spent on providing breakfast and dinner at home versus claiming on expenses should be irrelevant. In true STW fashion it has become one of the stickier parts of this pointless debate.

Keep it up team 😉

wwaswas – Member
I may have missed this but are these London offices a client site or just the OP’s company at a different location?

From the IR:

Benchmark system/rules
Under the benchmark system, HMRC has set advisory scale rates for particular day subsistence expenses that it will accept for all employers. As long as the employee has incurred subsistence expenses while travelling on an allowable business journey, employers will be able to make tax and NICs free subsistence payments up to the advisory rates without agreeing them with HMRC. Employers wishing to use the benchmark scale rates for subsistence payments will simply need to notify HMRC of their intention by ticking the appropriate statement/box on form P11DX before starting to use the system. The rates that can be used will be:
Breakfast rate (irregular early starters only) – A rate of up to £5.00 may be paid where a worker leaves home earlier than usual and before 6.00 am and incurs a cost on breakfast taken away from his home. If the employee regularly leaves home before 6.00 am because, for example, he works an early shift he would not be entitled to use the breakfast benchmark scale rate.
One meal rate (Five hour rate) – A rate of up to £5.00 may be paid where the worker has been away from his home/normal place of work for a period of at least five hours and has incurred a cost on a meal.
Two meal rate (Ten hour rate) – A rate of up to £10.00 may be paid where the worker has been away from his home/normal place of work for a period of at least ten hours and has incurred a cost on a meal or meals.
Late evening meal rate (irregular late finishers only) – A rate of up to £15.00 may be paid where the employee has to work later than usual, finishes work after 8.00 pm having worked his normal day and has to buy a meal which he would usually have at home.
If the employee is paid an allowance under the five or ten hour rule, the late meal allowance could still be paid if he finishes work after 8.00 pm and buys a meal that he would usually have at home. However, if the employee regularly finishes work late because, for example, he normally works the afternoon or evening shift, he would not be entitled to use the late evening meal rate.
Particular issues and exemptions
Payments in excess of the benchmark rates
The benchmark rates are the maximum tax and NICs free amounts that could be paid by employers who choose to use this system. An employer could pay less than this rate if it wants to do so. If a higher amount is paid without agreeing a tailored scale rate with HMRC, the excess should be subject to tax and NICs.
Qualifying conditions
Benchmark scale rates must only be used where all the qualifying conditions are met. The qualifying conditions are:
• the travel must be in the performance of an employee’s duties or to a temporary place of work
• the employee should be absent from his normal place of work or home for a continuous period in excess of five hours or ten hours
• the employee should have incurred a cost on a meal (food and drink) after starting the journey
Early starter and late finisher rates
The early starter and late finisher rates are for use in exceptional circumstances only and not intended for employees with regular early or late work patterns.
Tax and NICs free scale rate payments must be limited to three meal rates in one day (or 24 hour period). A meal is defined as a combination of food and drink.
Where employees are required to start early or finish late on a regular basis, the over five hours or over ten hours rates could be paid provided all the other qualifying rules are satisfied.

Show this to your employer Molgrips, and meet in the middle by buying a lunch less than £5.

Job done.

A rate of £5/£10 may be paid

Not must be paid.

that is a big difference.

irregular early starters only

All the mentions of irregular in there imply that if it’s as part of your normal work routine, such as on a 3 month placement?) you wouldn’t be entitled to the possibility of tax-efficient expenses?

Not must be paid.

Indeed. For any expenses not paid, you can claim back the tax you paid on the salary used to buy it.

and frankly the issue of how much I have spent on providing breakfast and dinner at home versus claiming on expenses should be irrelevant. In true STW fashion it has become one of the stickier parts of this pointless debate.

And it probably wouldn’t have become such a big part of the debate, if the OP hadn’t made out like he was enduring some sort of great expense because of it…….

Well no. I’m a home-based worker, so they should pick up the tab when I’m sent away. This is normal, and they do it – except for this one quirk. Which, as previously mentioned, costs a non-trivial amount of money.

The “non trivial amount of money” has ranged from £130/month to £8/week (by his own estimations)

If it’s so “none trivial” then possibly knowing what it was, to the nearest £100, would be a start.

I’m a home-based worker

Work paying for your home broadband too?

Meanwhile, somewhere in Leeds, the cheesecake has gone 🙁

Healthy today bearnecesities.

I dunno how that HMRC stuff applies when you’re in a hotel. We get more than that for hotel meals.

I am at a client site by the way, not my own company. The client are paying the expenses for the project.

But the point is not about the cost of lunch, it’s the canteen thing. The company thinks lunch is an acceptable business expense, which is why they (and the client) reimburse it, but it’s not clear why this does not happen when there is a canteen. The canteen is presumably subsidised, so the client is paying some of the lunch cost, but why not the rest?

Work paying for your home broadband too?

No. I may be able to claim something back for that but I won’t because I would have broadband anyway so it’s not really a cost of working.

Are you an employee or contractor?
Don’t say temporary employee

So what’s for molgrips lunch today?
Thinly sliced cold shoulder served with a salad of egg on face, hard cheese, sour grapes, with a schadenfreude dressing and a choice of raspberry fool or Eton Mess for pudd, and a nice can of bitter lemon.

Not really. Half of last night’s cheesefest for lunch 😀

Should I be slightly concerned Molgrips gave me some excellent and so far working dietary advice, but then pigs out in Pret himself?

Do as I do etc 😉 😉

aP – Member
So what’s for molgrips lunch today?
Thinly sliced cold shoulder served with a salad of egg on face, hard cheese, sour grapes, with a schadenfreude dressing and a choice of raspberry fool or Eton Mess for pudd, and a nice can of bitter lemon.

Excuse me while I wipe my keyboard…. 😀

*eats whole meal pitta and houmous for lunch*

*claims £5*

Let’s take a flyer and google:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=claiming+lunch+on-site+canteens

The first result is:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/eim21673.htm which leads to http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM21671.htm

You would probably need a tax person tell you if the problem is tax relief on tax relief, but as you have special powers you can probably figure it out yourself.

And more:

http://www.contractorinfo.co.uk/index.php?q=node/209

Job related living expenses if you are working outside reasonable commuting distance. You cannot claim for lunch if you are working at an office/site with a canteen

Either way – they are not out to ruin your life specifically. There is a reason.