Why are you atheists so angry?

Meh.

Wunfahsandandwun!!

Nice to see the little people getting something for a change. 😀

Oh it’s you, Flashy!

(He did cheat a bit there though, should he be disqualified?)

Gaaaaaah! After all that! Beaten to the crunch by CFH!

Chapeau, sir!

CaptainFlashheart – Member
Meh.

POSTED 1 MINUTE AGO # REPORT-POST

Well, that’s just silly

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-16047099

And you wonder why atheists are pissed off at the pointless bloodshed and slaughter carried out under religious pretences?

While this, the Middle East, Northern Ireland etc are wider issues than just religion, it’s no coincidence that organised religion is behind nearly every major conflict throughout history. Look at the atrocious spread of HIV across Africa thanks to the Catholic church’s propaganda campaign against condoms; the jailing of a raped woman for adultery in Afghanistan and then forcing her to give birth in prison – for crying out loud, how can you even pretend to believe in an all-powerful, loving, caring god after this?

This is why atheists are angry. This is why we object to children being indoctrinated into religion. This is why we don’t tolerate religious overtones in schools; and THIS IS WHY you get short-shift when you tell me that I will suffer because I choose, on the balance of evidence, to not believe in your [insert deity here].

No doubt that this post will either be ignored or replied to with some pompous and sanctimonious bullshit about life being a test of faith.

Sorry but as a Christian I’m also angry at this – it’s not only atheists who get to have an alternative opinion about such matters! I agree that war in the name of religion is unacceptable. More importantly it’s completely adverse to the teaching’s of Jesus. I therefore share your position but would suggest it is more a result of man taking the place of God in our society to gain power than it is a reflection of God’s character.

Are we really carrying on?

no.

please don’t

Bah – was putting the kids to bed, but I’m doing this anyway, because you see that front page where it says how many posts this thread has – it doesn’t mention CFH there!

Sorry but as a Christian I’m also angry at this – it’s not only atheists who get to have an alternative opinion about such matters! I agree that war in the name of religion is unacceptable. More importantly it’s completely adverse to the teaching’s of Jesus. I therefore share your position but would suggest it is more a result of man taking the place of God in our society to gain power than it is a reflection of God’s character.

Agree. Those things you mentioned are utterly utterly horrific and in absolutely no way are justified. But it is not ‘religion’ that has caused those atrocities, but the perversion of religion, bent to the will of those who seek power. Unfortunately this is the case for all major (and minor) world religions as well as atheists, agnostics and anyone else. It’s a cliche, but there will always be those who ‘spoil it for the rest of us’. It is always the bad aspects of religions that get portrayed (as with everything else) – but they are also massive forces for good (and no I am not saying that if you are not a Christian etc that you cannot do good things, that would be utter rubbish), yet this is rarely celebrated.

Just to add in, a major misconception of Christianity is that you must do ‘good works’ to ‘get into heaven’. This is actually the complete opposite of Jesus’ teaching – there is actually NOTHING that ANY of us can do to secure eternal life other than believe and trust in Him. Yes, as Christians we believe it is right to do ‘good things’ but we also now that second to Christ these ill never do anything to change ur future – it is just common sense really to help others and if through 😀 that we can share a bit of Gods love then great. If not then you know what, I’ll still help out anyway, it does t really affect anything.

Hopefully some of that makes sense! 😀

Hmm…a random smiley snuck in there…. The first one wasn’t meant to be there!

Hopefully some of that makes sense!

None at all. Have a bash at explaining the tooth fairy.

Divine intervention

But it is not ‘religion’ that has caused those atrocities, but the perversion of religion, bent to the will of those who seek power.

Yeah, but to try and do full circle on this thread, you see why such things make atheists angry?

Yeah, but to try and do full circle on this thread, you see why such things make atheists angry?

But why separate atheists in this?

FFS

I wasn’t going to do this, why is it that your both pissed off with people hijacking your religion to fight wars, how come you’re not doing anything about it?

Yup, absolutely, as theboycopeland said, it make’s us angry as well. Unfortunately there is a tendency to then black label every religion as wanting to control your life and cause harm rather than perhaps seeing that it is only a tiny tiny minority of these religions that have perverted it in such a way that it is a complete shadow of what the religion is based on. It is the broad generalisation of ‘religious views’ portrayed in the media that are what makes us (for this purpose us means christians as that is me, but include your religion of choice here) angry. The way in which biblical views on topics are distorted causes huge huge amoutns of pain to both those inside and outside of the church. Going out on a limb here – and I’m sure I’ll get destroyed for this – but taking the views on homesexuals by the christian faith as an example – it is mostly portrayed that if you are a homosexual, you are hated by the church and that every christian wants to try and ‘heal’ you from it. This is unfortunately the position that is shown most often in the media but is almost the complete opposite of what is really felt. I’m not going to lie, personally I do no think that that is what is in Gods best plan for your life, but at the same time it would in literally no way make any difference to the way I approached, responded to and respected you as a person. I would treat you exactly the same as any christian or non-christian friend and would never try to ‘heal’ you from anything. At the end of the day, God loves each person on this planet exactly the same whether they are a christian, muslim, atheist, homosexual, murderer, terrorist, politician, teacher, factory worker, banker, child, adult, whatever and there is nothing that can change that. That last line, in a very rubbish summary, is the christian faith. No more, no less.

I’m not going to lie, personally I do no think that that is what is in Gods best plan for your life

I’m not going to lie, I couldn’t give a **** what your god thinks of my life.

why is it that your both pissed off with people hijacking your religion to fight wars, how come you’re not doing anything about it?

Well, the International Red Cross, although not specifically a religious organisation, was founded by a Christian. Lots of aid charities were set up by religious people, to help victims of war, as well as many, many organisations set up by religious people to help those suffering from famine, disease and poverty. Such as The Salvation Army and Dr Banardos, both founded here in my home town, Tower Hamlets.

There are an awful lot of extremely kind, caring religious people out there, far more than those who misuse religion to carry out atrocities towards other Human Beings.

I’m not going to lie, I couldn’t give a **** what your god thinks of my life.

Well, I’d say that’s more Speed12’s opinion, rather than ‘God’s’ as to what is the ‘best plan’ for your life, and have to say I disagree completely with that. If, as according to Christian doctrine, that we are all ‘God’s Children’, then surely he loves us all equally and therefore it don’t matter if you’re Gay, Straight, Bi, whatever. No?

Would the anti-homosexuality thing have owt to do with reaction against Greek religion, which din’t seem to have an issue with it?

there is actually NOTHING that ANY of us can do to secure eternal life other than believe and trust in Him

FTFY

At the end of the day, God loves each person on this planet exactly the same whether they are a christian, muslim, atheist, homosexual, murderer, terrorist, politician, teacher, factory worker, banker, child, adult, whatever and there is nothing that can change that.

Your proof is?

Apparently I’m doomed unless I give up love. So much for your god. I think I’ll get some bread and make toast in The Other Place. I wouldn’t want to be in a heaven that is so full of hate. I think I’ll even take salted butter because lets face it I shouldn’t have to worry about my blood pressure down there.

Saying that, we’re now passed 1000 posts (yay!) and I don’t like emsz getting angry cos I think she’s fab and well worth sitting down for a panad and a sticky bun and having a good natter (and learning how to mountain bike better from her cos I’m rubbish). I’m tootling.

To finish off for me: “Religion is lovely and fluffy, people have perverted its message because it is pure and lovely and its even got bunnies in it. Don’t blame religion, blame the people.”

Yeah, right. I’ve also got a bridge for sale if you’re interested.

Such as The Salvation Army and Dr Banardos, both founded here in my home town, Tower Hamlets.

Yeah, couldn’t let that one lie. I wouldn’t pee on the Sally Army if they were on fire. They lobbied for section 28, won’t help gay couples unless they split and are a thoroughly nasty piece of work. They *never* get my money, I give it to other people who actually care.

thats very kind adam as i do feel we do need to build bridges here 😉

Yeah, couldn’t let that one lie. I wouldn’t pee on the Sally Army if they were on fire. They lobbied for section 28, won’t help gay couples unless they split and are a thoroughly nasty piece of work.

Yeah, I can’t deny that some of their philosophies are abhorrent. But then I can’t deny that they did an awful lot of great work to help an awful lot of very needy people.

Mother Teresa worked all her life to do what she believed was the best thing for others, and countless people benefitted from her charity. But she herself wasn’t perfect, and there were those who suffered in her hospitals too, but I believe that she was overall a good person. Chris Hitchens may not agree with me, but when he’s set up countless hospices to help the sick and poor, then maybe he’ll be in a position to criticise.

You can hate the Salvation Army all you like, but when it comes to actually spending their income on charitable activity rather than executive pay they are streets ahead of all these others.

http://society.guardian.co.uk/salarysurvey/table/0,12406,1042677,00.html

Well, the International Red Cross, although not specifically a religious organisation, was founded by a Christian.

Yep and yet I donate a reasonable bit of cash to them every month despite being a Godless heathen.

Proof (scientific even) that you don’t need a god to want to do good.

Well, I’d say that’s more Speed12’s opinion, rather than ‘God’s’ as to what is the ‘best plan’ for your life, and have to say I disagree completely with that. If, as according to Christian doctrine, that we are all ‘God’s Children’, then surely he loves us all equally and therefore it don’t matter if you’re Gay, Straight, Bi, whatever. No?

Correct, my wording wasn’t the best and I apologise for any offence caused. Elfins comment here echoes what I said at the end of my last post as to what the basis of the Christian faith is – Gods unconditional love. Not being ‘good’. Not doing ‘good things’. Not trying to ‘convert’ people. Nothing else but that.

Apparently I’m doomed unless I give up love. So much for your god.

Adam – I’m really sorry if that is the impression you have been fed of the church and God. That’s not what it’s about at all. Jesus talks about God loving all. He didn’t say but first you have to do xy and z. First he loves you. That’s it really.

as above 🙂

FFS

I wasn’t going to do this, why is it that your both pissed off with people hijacking your religion to fight wars, how come you’re not doing anything about it?

But why should they? There is no demand for vegetarians / animal rights cmpaigners to apologise or account for the folks who dug up the graves of the relatives of those guys who wHo worked at huntingdon life sciences.

No one is asking you to account for or defend gay groups or their actions, you are treated as an individual can you not return the courtesy?

aghhh, how did that happen. It’s all going nice and slowly, I run out for a few hours and you scoot straight over the 1000. Not happy.

…it’s going to need to be 2000 now 😈

New Earth Discovered![/url]

Jesus talks about God loving all. He didn’t say but first you have to do xy and z. First he loves you. That’s it really.

So i can reject his message. ignore his love, not follow the code, mock his followers and he still loves me? BRILLIANT
Do you and I get the same treatment on death then or will he love you more?
so it is not “unconditional ” is it it has quite a lot of conditions in your big book ten to start with – to be fair it is true I dont covet another mans slaves but then again I think slavery is wrong.
if god loves me unconditionally why will god punish me for not doing as god says …conditions.

So i can reject his message. ignore his love, not follow the code, mock his followers and he still loves me? BRILLIANT

Yeah, but everyone else thinks you’re a cant

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrr er RRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Apparently I’m doomed unless I give up love. So much for your god.

as always AdamW says it better than me.

I know you mean well speed12, and I’m sorry I got cross, but really your church has a long way to go.

not as subtle as usual Dr but nice 😀

This used to be a great thread, lots of good points made. Then Fred the attention seeker showed up and started spewing the usual look-at-me-garbage. Pitiful.

if god loves me unconditionally why will god punish me for not doing as god says …

In the same way a father loves their son/daughter but will punish them if they do something wrong. They don’t stop loving them but the act still needs to be dealt with. I have to say this is where it starts to get very difficult to explain (and I’ll confess I’m not very good at it anyway!) on an Internet forum without coming across very judgemental or fire and brimstoney etc so you’ll have to believe I’m trying to say it without it coming across like that!

but really your church has a long way to go

Couldn’t agree more – probably even further than you imagine! It is sickening to see what some so called Christians say and do as it is so far from what Christianity is all about. And sadly, these are the aspects portrayed in the media which the casts a dampener over everyone else.

I agree with Emsz. Religion should be challenged, speshly if it’s doctrines conflict with individual freedom in modern society. Which seems to happen a fair bit, and one of the problems is the inflexibility of many religions. I do welcome the fact the Cof E is at least entertaining differing views on stuff like same-sex marriages and that, and even the Vatican has shifted it’s stance on using contraceptives, although it could be argued this is long overdue. But the fact that Christianity itself has evolved shows that change within religion can happen, and must surely if religions are to survive in an increasingly secular World.

I think the recent focus on Islam in the West will bring about a relaxation of certain doctrine, as the adoption by a small minority of a more fundamentalist approach shows that moderates must distance themselves from extremism of any form, and that there is indeed space for such social progression within Islam. My own personal issue with Islam, apart form some of it’s more ‘traditional’ attitudes towards stuff like homosexuality, the treatment of women through it’s misinterpretation, and that pork and alcohol are forbidden, is the insistence on using the right hand for all things good, and that the left hand is for ‘dirty’ activities. As a lefty, that was always very difficulty to cope with, and although I understand the one hand clean one hand for dirty things hygiene perspective, the inflexibility of such a rule meant I felt a pariah, and somewhat rejected.

Ah well, I’m a complete failure as a Good Muslim Boy. something my dad will have to bear the shame of to his grave…

I can still appreciate and respect many of the positive aspects of the faith though, and stuff like fasting is a good way of practicing self-discipline, as well as making you consider those less fortunate than yourself. And the prayer ritual seems to be quite good physical exercise; loads of quite sprightly elderly Muslim men round where I live, I think the bending and stretching five times a day is quite good for a person, keeps you supple. 😀

And Islam has actually encouraged scientific exploration, medicine, mathematics, astronomy and chemistry. So far from ‘backward’.