Warranty denied as I stripped the bike down?

You’ve got Giant Bikes, who sell their own bikes globally (then possibly a separate company selling them in the UK?). Then you’ve got Giant Bicycle Manufacturing, who make frames and forks for anyone. I wouldn’t be hugely surprised if Giant make a quarter of the frames on the market.

Do you mean they are two completely separate companies who just happen to share the same name or that they are two segments within the same company?

My experience of large multinational companies that have numerous segments is that they are separate for the purposes of organisation/tax avoidance. When word comes down from on high to ‘save money any way you can’ then it’s up to middle managers to come up with ‘innovative’ solutions.

Unless they are two completely separate companies that just happen to share the same name I’d be surprised if the two issues aren’t related.

I never understand why companies reply on threads like this if they’re not going to say ‘sorry we got things wrong in this case’ and resolve.

It’s pretty easy to see the contradiction between these two quotes…

Public statement:

We fully appreciate that consumers get their bikes serviced and parts replaced by non-Giant retailers and in the majority of scenarios this is unlikely to affect any warranty.

Reply to OP:

Hi Jamie,

Thank you for getting back in touch.

In reference to the case of the fork being serviced by TF tuned, we would require that it is removed from the bike and re-installed by a Giant retailer.

if they’re not going to say ‘sorry we got things wrong in this case’ and resolve.

Not sure that would help their cause… even if they step in now and fix his bike, it wouldn’t mean i’d buy one. This whole situation has very much put many off.

Just before Christmas, the motor in my KSL failed, contacted Certini and dropped it off the same day (Monday). Certini inspected, contacted Spesh, replaced the motor and had it back on the Wednesday. Yes, the motor failed with no warning, but due to the customer care I’d be buying another Specialized.

The level of validation, testing and QC in the cycling industry is poor at best. We are the beta testers and as a result are having to do high levels of servicing and maintenance to keep bikes running. Expecting us to go back to a shop every time is ridiculous and Giant need to realize this.

I wonder how many shops say they have Cytech qualified staff, yet they are only Theory One? (https://www.cytech.training/)
I’ve used my local Giant dealer twice to fit components to bikes:
-Headset, they managed to leave reminents of the bag the frame was wrapped in trapped in the upper and lower headset cup.
-Bottom bracket. Left out one of the GXP reducer sleeves (didn’t RTFM, which was in the box) and proceeded to smash the bearing out, chipping it, then reinstalled it. You don’t refit bearings which have been removed with violence, as a cytech mechanic he should know this. The bearing failed within 6 weeks.

As you can imagine, they don’t touch any of my bikes, not that they should, as they arn’t Giants and they arn’t qualified to work on other manufacturers bikes, if you apply their logic.

As someone who builds engines and gearboxes, working on a bike is pretty basic. You need special tools, which I’ve bough and then RTFM/common sense for the rest.

Do you mean they are two completely separate companies who just happen to share the same name or that they are two segments within the same company?

I would suspect that legally they are two wholly owned subsidiaries of a parent company. So six of one, half dozen of the other.

When word comes down from on high to ‘save money any way you can’ then it’s up to middle managers to come up with ‘innovative’ solutions.

Yes, i suspect the whole thing is mostly shuffling of wooden dollars at corporate level, because they have a shortage of real dollars.

Unless they are two completely separate companies that just happen to share the same name I’d be surprised if the two issues aren’t related.

No, they aren’t. Though i wouldn’t be at all surprised if some of the giant (bike brand) bikes aren’t subbed out to another manufacturer (A-Pro, Kinesis, whatever).

Something seems to have changed in their warranty procedure.
I had a warranty on a Giant TCR (road frame) many years ago.
Crack on seat tube, near bb, it was white paint so may have been a paint crack.
Bought as a frameset, built up by myself, so had to strip bike down and send back as a frameset.
Warranty honoured and a new frameset duly arrived.
I now have 4 Giants in the garage partly due to this experience.
Following outcome with interest

No, they aren’t. Though i wouldn’t be at all surprised if some of the giant (bike brand) bikes aren’t subbed out to another manufacturer (A-Pro, Kinesis, whatever).

Can you explain what you mean here?

I’m struggling to understand why, if Giant CEO gave the order to save money, that order can’t manifest itself with Giant Bicycle Manufacturing not paying suppliers and Giant Bikes not honouring warranties.

sl2000

It’s pretty easy to see the contradiction between these two quotes…

Yeah, that’s a key point that Giant need to comment on

Public statement:

We fully appreciate that consumers get their bikes serviced and parts replaced by non-Giant retailers and in the majority of scenarios this is unlikely to affect any warranty.

Reply to OP:

Hi Jamie,

Thank you for getting back in touch.

In reference to the case of the fork being serviced by TF tuned, we would require that it is removed from the bike and re-installed by a Giant retailer.

Further to contradiction between the two quotes highlighted by @sl2000 above, I can see why Giant might say there’s no contradiction, i.e. the removal of bits by a non-Giant retailer being one of the minority scenarios which WILL affect warranty. If that’s indeed what Giant are saying (and it’s there in black n white) then most definitely count me out of future Giant purchases – it’s a completely unrealistic expectation.

Of course, the reality is they would have no way of knowing who removed or refitted the fork

Giant and their rep Ian have had a total mare here haven’t they. How to trash your credibility in one post.

I’m completely puzzled about this whole thing.

stwhannah
Full Member

The poster is real and genuine.

@stwhannah

Is is possible for STW to ask Giant for an official statement to confirm that a rider performing normal routine maintenance voids Giant’s warranty? It seems utterly ludicrous that this would be the case.

Secondly stripping the frame, with regards to the OP. What’s the official line on that specific case?

csb
Full Member

Giant and their rep Ian have had a total mare here haven’t they. How to trash your credibility in one post.

When you say ‘rep Ian’…
It’s this Ian Beasant, no? (check his job title)
https://uk.linkedin.com/in/ian-beasant-19844847

When you say ‘rep Ian’…
It’s this Ian Beasant, no? (check his job title)

In which case you’d think he’d be able to read the room before making statements. Times like this make it clear why companies hire departments to handle customer relations, just a shame they’ve also been doing a crap job

Having followed this thread, I wanted to bring some clarity to the topic and also a contact point for any direct communication required.
In a scenario where a warranty issue unfortunately occurs, the complete bike has to go through an authorised Giant retailer, who in turn will work with Giant to resolve the problem.
We fully appreciate that consumers get their bikes serviced and parts replaced by non-Giant retailers and in the majority of scenarios this is unlikely to affect any warranty. However If a situation does occur where an issue is directly attributed to the change being incorrectly completed then I am sure you understand this can create problems, hence why we always recommend a Giant authorised partner. Not looking to deflect this discussion in any way, but this is standard policy in this and many other industries. While I am sure you all use qualified and recognised retailers and correct replacement parts you must appreciate that this is not always the case. Over my 30 years in the industry I have seen some interesting work done on various bikes. Simply we recommend to reduce risk. I cannot discuss a specific case on this forum but In all scenarios we do try to be compassionate to the rider and with the help of our independently owned network of retailers, try to find a fair resolution. If you would like further clarity please visit one of our retail partners or call our rider support line. Not only will they help you with the issue but they can also update you on our National warranty support program ensuring the work will get done wherever you are at the time and also our recently launched second owner extended warranty program.
To clear up a couple of other points, all but one of our stores are owned by local retail partners and with regards to the new home delivery service – all bikes are fully assembled by our network of local independent retailers, selected by geographical distance from the customer and shipped to the home with full warranty. The customer will also then be connected to their local retailer for service and support.
If somebody would like to contact me directly on any topic or issue, my email address is ibeasant@giant-bicycles.co.uk
Ian Beasant Giant UK

What a crap (being polite here) response. Absolute bottle job of the highest order. Did you even read that drivel back to yourself? Don’t take any responsibility will you? Don’t apologise for being a crap money grabbing company desperately trying to back out of any valid warranty claims?
Spineless, petty and an absolute train wreck in terms of PR.
The above is just bulls**t excuses and much of it is nonsense waffle that helps no one. This bit in particular is truly baffling:
We fully appreciate that consumers get their bikes serviced and parts replaced by non-Giant retailers and in the majority of scenarios this is unlikely to affect any warranty. However If a situation does occur where an issue is directly attributed to the change being incorrectly completed then I am sure you understand this can create problems, hence why we always recommend a Giant authorised partner.

Terrible, ignorant of what the OP has stated and clarifies nothing.

If this guy is the best that Giant can wheel out in an attempt to recover some reputation then its no wonder they are reportedly struggling and on their knees.

The retailer still wouldnt know even if the person had taken it in fully assembled, as its really not hard to insert a seatpost fully into the frame before you take it in.

absolutely. Equally if someone fitted 160mm triple clamps to a XC race bike, sheared the head tube off, refitted the 100mm race forks and took it in.

Like I’ve tried to convey, there are two sides to this,

– I don’t think the OP has done anything wrong in his use, it is a genuine design or m/f flaw that has led to the frame cracking.

– I don’t think it’s unreasonable for the shop to want to see it assembled just to rule out numptyism being the cause of the failure (if you’re enough of a numpty to run the seatpost above the MIL you might be enough of one to take it back in like that…)

– OP dissembled without approval to do so, but only because shop was going to charge to do that, and clearly has the skills / qual to be able to do that – so Giant now denying warranty because they didn’t use an approved dealer is just daft from a CS PoV, even if technically being within their T&C’s

More broadly

– Doubling down and saying everything has to be done by a Giant approved technician just makes it worse, that’s put a lot of folk off Giant and potentially goes into unfair contract T&C territory.

– The Giant guy’s ‘clarification’ which I tongue in cheek tried to summarise yesterday as “the warranty says you should, we know you don’t, we’ll try and be sensitive to where you haven’t, but we’re not promising to be and in this case we aren’t. So, pick the bones of that out and take your chances. Or stick to approved dealer servicing” – doesn’t clarify things at all, just admits there’s a grey area and it might depend who you get on the day.

– In the end means that those of us that are either qualified, or have 30 years of experience in how to move the spacers around on our steerers, or run a new gear cable in, or change a cassette or chainring when needed, etc., are risking losing a warranty claim if we now do things like that. Which in a competitive marketplace, puts Giant at a significant (if not disqualifying) disadvantage to others when weighing up pros and cons of our next purchase.

– And they make themselves look a bit silly too.

Last point (and this already got too long) – in the end it’s failure to communicate that started this. If the shop had said they needed to see it assembled to validate the claim, this would have been avoided. If OP hadn’t taken a ‘not no’ to mean ‘yes’, it would have been avoided. I know controversial but these messaging devices we all use are actually phones where you can speak to other people and discuss and clarify. We should do it more (my kids drive me mental in this respect, sending 100 whatsapp messages instead of a three minute call!)

Granted – the shop might still have said claim accepted, now we need to strip it down to send to Giant for replacement and we want to charge you which would lead to another, different argument of whether we should have to pay for that / why can’t the OP strip it as they’re Cytech qualified, etc. But they’d have a warranty claim still.

I’m assuming the OP has moved on and bought a new frame/bike by now and stopped caring 😀

No, they aren’t. Though i wouldn’t be at all surprised if some of the giant (bike brand) bikes aren’t subbed out to another manufacturer (A-Pro, Kinesis, whatever).

Can you explain what you mean here?

They aren’t completely separate companies. Except (probably) legally.

I’m struggling to understand why, if Giant CEO gave the order to save money, that order can’t manifest itself with Giant Bicycle Manufacturing not paying suppliers and Giant Bikes not honouring warranties.

It absolutely does. Someone in the umbrella co is panicking.

Ignore comment about A-Pro etc. Not hugely relevant. Just that Giant make bikes for themselves, and others, and probably pay other factories to make bikes for them…

At this point it may be best if Giant make-up that all their communications have been hacked by a malign drunk work experience kid – end up doing the right thing for one of their customers, then have a word with themselves in the nearest corner regarding their mildly ridiculous warranty terms. Its clear that if the industry goes down this route as a whole then a lot of experienced riders will be diverting their cash towards more realistic alternatives.

I know controversial but these messaging devices we all use are actually phones where you can speak to other people and discuss and clarify.

But it’s not in writing so easy to deny later on.

Unfortunate post that Ian liked in that LinkedIn profile: “Integrity is doing the right thing, even when no one is watching.”

We have 2 Giant bikes in our household, unlikely there will be a 3rd.

The only thing missing from this thread is another company coming in and offering the OP a replacement frame to really rub it into Giant 🤣

If the seat post didn’t have enough insertion in the frame then wouldn’t that be the responsibility of the dealer who sold the bike that was too small anyway. So not a reason to refuse a warranty.

I’ve heard of weight weenies trimming the post down to save weight. You wouldn’t know without inspecting the frame with seatpost in place. So not necessarily.

This thread can’t be good for all the independent bike shops currently with thousands of pounds worth of giant bikes in stock. Wonder if their sales will take a hit as a result?

I’ve heard of weight weenies trimming the post down to save weight.

I’d like to see a weight weenie trying to trim down a dropper post 🙂

Do they make bikes out of cheese these days. Frames shouldn’t be snapping at all (unless you crash). Very poor QC/Design if they do.

Shocking warranty terms if Giant void it if you do any work on the bikes. So what happens if a frame snaps due to a failed pivot bearing after you got drowned on a ride and didn’t do preventative maintenance as a ‘service’ wasn’t due for two months. Does one take a bike for a dealer service every ride then ?

I’d like to see a weight weenie trying to trim down a dropper post

it was a hypothetical situation, how a right sized frame in the wrong hands could have less than enough seatpost in.

But to answer it anyway, a weight weenie wouldn’t have a dropper post full stop 🙂

Is there a fraud aspect to this?

There’s been at least 2 posts from people in the industry (or used to be) that say the dealer’s cost of stripping and re-assembling a bike would be invoiced to the manufacturer. However, in this case the OP was told he’d have to pay for this work. If the OP had paid this AND the dealer had been reimbursed by Giant then isn’t that charging twice for the same work? I.E. fraud?

I appreciate this is perhaps hypothetical as the OP stripped the bike themselves and so opened the whole can of works.

Had to look in on this thread to see what was going on – was wondering how it got to 11 pages, but now I see!

I’m another one who wouldn’t buy a Giant new after this.

Someone up the thread pointed out “we” as “serious” riders aren’t a big part of their market. But when my partner was looking for a half decent reasonably priced hybrid for commuting, we ended up getting her a Liv. That scenario would end differently now.

Could be a dealer attempt at a money grab that has caused all this.
Language could have been extended to “may have to charge for the dissassembley if the warranty claim is denied once giant have inspected the frame”
Giant may have to sacrifice that specific dealer – say, “for misleading giant UK” – to save some face.
I don’t see another way out of the mess that’s been made for the brand really.. assuming the market influencing power of STW forum is what some seem to believe it to be.

assuming the market influencing power of STW forum is what some seem to believe it to be

Whilst a few hundred/thousand may have read this…. I bet it barely registers in the world of Giant.

Is there a fraud aspect to this?

There’s been at least 2 posts from people in the industry (or used to be) that say the dealer’s cost of stripping and re-assembling a bike would be invoiced to the manufacturer. However, in this case the OP was told he’d have to pay for this work. If the OP had paid this AND the dealer had been reimbursed by Giant then isn’t that charging twice for the same work? I.E. fraud?

It is rare that a bike shop gets reimbursed for the labour cost of warranty work, which is why non-supplying dealers are very loathe to deal with warranty on anything supplied by other retailers, and why you’ll often get charged for the labour involved in things like a warranty frame replacement.

It is rare that a bike shop gets reimbursed for the labour cost of warranty work, which is why non-supplying dealers are very loathe to deal with warranty on anything supplied by other retailers, and why you’ll often get charged for the labour involved in things like a warranty frame replacement.

Which opens up a whole other angle of “why aren’t the shops getting the warranty labour money they are entitled to?”

The only thing missing from this thread is another company coming in and offering the OP a replacement frame to really rub it into Giant 🤣

I can’t do that, but I’m more than happy to send him some trousers and a hat.

I can’t do that, but I’m more than happy to send him some trousers and a hat.

Steady on, it was only a Trance frame. A pair of socks would easily cover the cost 😉

It was always my understanding that the cost of any warranty was factored into the sales price. I would assume the majority of warranty work is via the original dealer and that dealing with other claims is part of being a dealer “network”. Similarly another shop may deal with a claim purchased from you etc. thus saving you any labour

@brant “I can’t do that, but I’m more than happy to send him some trousers and a hat.”

I bet your lifetime against defects means lifetime!

I bet your lifetime against defects means lifetime!

presumably as long as you only take them off yourself?

presumably as long as you only take them off yourself?

From the jist of this thread I’m pretty sure Brant has to take them off for you