UK Election!

https://x.com/KimJohnsonMP/status/1811075411247239451

It will put pressure on Labour MPs to rebel and vote with the LibDems, SNP, and Greens, especially those in marginal seats.

With such a huge Labour majority they might feel that it is safe to do so and that it will earn them brownie points with their constituents.

Binners – this is a very simple one to alter.  Now they have announced all sorts of stuff but this very simple and cheap step seems beyond them.  Why do you think that is?

It would not take any significant parliamentary time, it would be uncontroversial, the cost is minimal.

the two child benefit cap with the rape clause is indefensible and you  know it :-)

I am also very disappointed with a load of other stuff but I accept that many of those issues are not cheap simple and straightforward to sort out but ending the 2 child benefit cap is not in that category

I celebrated this and praised Starmer for assuring that even far-right Israeli prime ministers are not above international law:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/23/labour-would-comply-with-icc-arrest-order-for-netanyahu-lammy-reiterates

So it is only fair to point out that Starmer now appears to have backtracked:

https://www.newarab.com/news/uk-gov-will-not-drop-challenge-icc-israeli-arrest-warrants

The original announcement that the new Labour government were dropping the previous Tory government’s opposition to an arrest warrant was widely reported by the mainstream media, but the backtracking and the reality that Labour will maintain the Tory government policy doesn’t appear to be.

Presumably it’s all because the Tories have left the country in such a mess that Starmer, the human rights lawyer, can’t afford to allow the international prosecution of an alleged war criminal?

Wow, the new arab, that sounds like a fact based internet site, they even use the word ‘alleged’ in their first sentence before going off on a tangent ?

Hmmm.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1922784/nhs-waiting-times-economy-back-to-work

When the last government mooted this, it was Evil Tories this and Tory Scum that. But when Labour do it, its ok for some reason

It’s only a 2 child benefit cap. Let’s stop whining about it yeah ;

Labour have had years to prep. Stop putting the Centrist rim brakes on.

How much has Labour provided for this since being in power, can you be more prescriptive so that the rest of us can understand where you believe these funds are to provide nearly £4 billion extra per year, every year?

What is it with Centrists that they can’t understand about the way government’s  spending operates?

It’s a political choice – not a financial one.

It comes from the same place – every time

This excuse making for Labour is getting so ridiculous.

Granted they’ve only been in power for 30 seconds or so but they can hit the ground running and if they don’t do something within the first 100 days that affects actual material conditions then society is going to suffer.

(And I’m not talking about all this ridiculous vapid technocracy that some of you confuse with improving living standards.)

No way is Starmer getting an easy ride on this sort of thing.

What is it with Centrists that they can’t understand about the way government’s  spending operates?

We’re all dangerous idealogical fanatics! I thought you’d established this some time ago, no?

I find it amusing that you can forgive anything the labour party do.

Yes they have done some good stuff already and hit the ground running – i am quite impressed.  Junior doctors pay being a good example.

I cannot fathom why this one they are so dead set against.  A much easier issue than junior doctors pay.  Why do they want to continue this piece of performative cruelty.  ?

Why do they want to continue this piece of performative cruelty. ?

I’m sure he’ll refer to you as comrade and post a pithy meme in due course.

Wow, the new arab, that sounds like a fact based internet site

It is. You are unhappy because they used the term “alleged”? That’s really weird – of all the things to criticise!

I used the term “it now appears”, because it hasn’t been confirmed yet. Generally governments give out heavy hints about expected course of action.

But anyway what’s your position on the issue argee – do you believe that international arrest warrants for alleged war criminals is a good idea?

I’m guessing that it all depends on what Starmer decides, i.e. if he backs the issuing of the arrest warrant you’ll back it, if he opposes it you will too. Am I right, do you let Starmer do your thinking for you?

There you go argee, the Jerusalem Post, it sounds more reliable than a dodgy news provider with the word Arab in it, does it not?

https://www.jpost.com/international/article-810436

The United Kingdom’s newly elected Labour government has not yet taken a position regarding whether it would continue to oppose the legal proceedings against Israel at the International Criminal Court

So a week ago we were all celebrating how great the new Labour government was for wanting, unlike the Tories, to hold war criminals to account but it turns out that the celebratory mood was a bit premature.

It looks like this is just one more issue where Labour’s policy might be identical to the last Tory government’s

Good photoshop effort. Now bring it out on every thread until we’re all sick of it then keep going.

It is assumed in British politics that the leaders of the two main parties have the final say on their party’s policies.

That assumption is doing a whole **** load of lifting.

So a week ago we were all celebrating how great the new Labour government was for wanting, unlike the Tories, to hold war criminals to account but it turns out that the celebratory mood was a bit premature.

It looks like this is just one more issue where Labour’s policy might be identical to the last Tory government’s

Lammy, whilst in Israel on government business basically says ‘no comment’ in as many words, rather than being committal shocker.

Why not wait until the actual confirmation of a yay or nay, instead of the rumour mills, like the courts, it’s always good to condemn someone on actual evidence, rather than conjecture.

But anyway what’s your position on the issue argee – do you believe that international arrest warrants for alleged war criminals is a good idea?

I’m guessing that it all depends on what Starmer decides, i.e. if he backs the issuing of the arrest warrant you’ll back it, if he opposes it you will too. Am I right, do you let Starmer do your thinking for you?

I believe in the ICC and their output, they are a force for good, but my opinion on the matter has no weight, unlike a country making a decision, that will be slightly more complex and come with potential pitfalls from the many intricacies of politics on the world stage.

Why not wait until the actual confirmation of a yay or nay, instead of the rumour mills, like the courts, it’s always good to condemn someone on actual evidence, rather than conjecture.

You have just criticised the New Arab news site for using the term “alleged”! Make your mind up!

I used the terms “it now appears” and “might”. I haven’t condemned anything. I poured praise on the new government for its apparent determination to uphold international law. I am now saying that this appears to have been premature because apparently no decision has been made.

Despite the fact that Lammy made it very clear what Labour’s position is/was

David Lammy has reiterated that Labour would seek to implement an arrest warrant against Benjamin Netanyahu if one was issued by the international criminal court.

That ^^ couldn’t be clearer

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/23/labour-would-comply-with-icc-arrest-order-for-netanyahu-lammy-reiterates

It is assumed in British politics that the leaders of the two main parties have the final say on their party’s policies.

That assumption is doing a whole **** load of lifting

Are you seriously questioning the claim that the leaders of the Labour and Tory parties have the final say on their party’s policies? Blimey

We all know who really runs this country, no matter which party is allegedly ‘in power’

When the last government mooted this, it was Evil Tories this and Tory Scum that. But when Labour do it, its ok for some reason

before : “People are swinging the lead and pretending to be ill when they’re not! Stress? Depression? Don’t make me laugh.”

after : “If we measure how many and how soon people receive the care they need to be able to return to work, and have rewards for that, we can improve outcomes.”

On Lammy, he’s walking a difficult line… and doing so well as far as I can see. There are those that think that Israel should not exist as a state of course, and they will never be happy with diplomacy towards them, even if it is with the aim of stopping the killings and establishing a free Palestinian state. Calling for a ceasefire will never be enough for these people, they want Israel gone.

LOLz

I ruddy well should be!

On Lammy, he’s walking a difficult line…

You what? We are talking about complying with an International Criminal Court arrest warrant for people accused of war crimes, where is the “difficult line” that he is being asked to walk?

Plenty of world leaders, including Macron, have said that their countries will comply with an ICC’s arrest warrant, why can’t the new Labour government make the same public announcement?

Before the general election Lammy said that Labour would drop the Tory government’s opposition to the arrest warrant, is it really too much to expect a different stance from Labour?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/23/labour-would-comply-with-icc-arrest-order-for-netanyahu-lammy-reiterates

It is simply a rule of law issue.

More pips required on TJ’s epaulettes; no, that’s not code for anything – unless you really want it to be…

They’ve only been in power a week and you’re expecting them to undo 14 years of deriliction

Yep, in corporate bullshit bingo dealing with the two child cap would be in the low hanging fruit category.  You just do that stuff straight away and then get to the more difficult stuff, i.e. social care, housing, productivity

I see this thread is still a complete shit-show.

Dunno there’s been some interesting contributions. Although not all obviously.

I see this thread is still a complete shit-show.

I see the stw-meta comments are still insightful and contribute much wisdom to the discussion.

You what? We are talking about complying with an International Criminal Court arrest warrant for people accused of war crimes, where is the “difficult line” that he is being asked to walk?

The Law.

Under the ’93 Oslo accords Palestine doesn’t have jurisdiction over Israeli citizens, there’s a legal argument on-going about whether then Palestine can transfer that right to the ICC.

Lammy cannot say either way becasue he hasn’t been given legal advice on it. You’ll note that the gov’t has said in the past; Labour would seek to implement an arrest warrant against Benjamin Netanyahu if one was issued by the international criminal court.

The argument is ‘can it?’ The Labour position seems to be if the ICC has the right to seek to arrest Netanyahu, then the UK govt would support it, if it doesn’t then the UK cannot.

Under the ’93 Oslo accords Palestine doesn’t have jurisdiction over Israeli citizens, there’s a legal argument on-going about whether then Palestine can transfer that right to the ICC.

Not according to most legal scholars.  That is a blatant excuse put out by Israel.  No one believes it hence all the countries that support the ICC and also the ICC itself taking action.  There is no argument.  There is Israel trying to escape culpability for its actions

Its absolutely nothing top do with Palestine having jurisdiction over Israeli citizens anyway – its about the jurisdiction of the ICC

https://www.icc-cpi.int/sites/default/files/2024-05/240520-panel-report-eng.pdf

its about the jurisdiction of the ICC

Of course, but it’s a legal court it’s entitled to hear legal arguments. Until it makes a decision either way it’d be a foolish Foreign Sec to wade in. Be consistent, if you want to criticise the Tories for seeking to break international agreements, you can’t then criticise Labour for seeking to abide by them (or at least not make definitive statements until the arguments have been settled)

There is NO dispute.  the arguement has been settled.  Read the PDF.

There is NO dispute.  the arguement has been settled.  Read the PDF.

36. While this is the Panel’s view, the Panel is cognisant that the decision on the issuance
of warrants is for the honourable Judges of the Court.

The Judges on the ICC panel haven’t made a decision, until they do, again it would be a foolish For Sec to act. I’d imagine that the decision will come either way in the next few weeks (as that was the deadline set for legal submissions) so we’ll know in time, and I expect that Lammy will say that the UK supports the ICC – As he’s already indicated he will.

Under the ’93 Oslo accords Palestine doesn’t have jurisdiction over Israeli citizens, there’s a legal argument on-going about whether then Palestine can transfer that right to the ICC.

Is what you  said.  ~This has been dismissed as a legal fiction.  The ICC does have jurisdiction.  Thats legally settled.

It hasn’t. The .pdf is the panel appointed by the ICC’s opinion, that the UK asked for. The argument will be settled when the judges on the ICC panel make their decision in a few weeks time.

Aye right.  Find a single legal opinion of any merit that believes this oslo accord nonsense and its well established that the ICC has jurisdiction.

Its an arguement without merit as has been made clear.  I think you will also find that its not actually been made to the ICC.  No submission on it as its without merit.

Finger on the pulse of the average voter here Uncle Jezza.

I hear most people talking of little else other than ICC rulings. So much so that the news Gareth Southgate has resigned is barely getting a look in

Starmer take note!

Rayner saying we need growth to afford to lift kids out of poverty.

Tory speak and Tory myth.

Still waiting for them to turn left when in power as was promised.

Labour’s economic plan is not a plan it’s a the dregs of right-wing fail from the off.

M ore relevant than english wendy ball binners  :-)

To (no doubt completely pointlessly) try to counter the relentless miserabalism and bottomless pessimism of the usual suspects on here:

 UK ready to build ‘closer, more mature’ trade links with EU