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  • Today, if you're English…
  • MrSparkle
    Full Member



    toomanybikes
    Free Member

    anokdale………..i'm just bored at work so thought i'd try and cheer meself up

    RustySpanner
    Full Member

    One Englishman, an idiot; two, a sporting event; three, an Empire. 😀

    The Clash – This is England

    Happy St George's day, wherever you're from!

    PeterPoddy
    Free Member

    What about some English art?

    My personal favourite, LS Lowry

    And you don't get much more English than Constable

    Or an E-Type Jag

    OK, maybe not art as such, but automotive art at least! 🙂

    kcr
    Free Member

    built in Southampton

    5 minutes on Google will tell you the Spitfire wasn't all built in Southampton.
    See previous post!
    A collaborative national production effort, flown by multiple nationalities united in a common struggle – makes it an odd choice for a celebration of specifically English national identity. There must be lots of better choices one could make to celebrate the wonderful English nation?

    rkk01
    Free Member

    But I'm not celebrating some bloke called George. It's merely a day to celebrate being English, and the (what should be) proud traditions, mythology and cultural heritage that goes along with that

    St George has Nothing to do with the mythology of these islands.

    English identity needs to be reinvented and focused on "Englishness" – you could all start by reinstating your proper patron saint rather than some invented bloke from the eastern Med.
    The number of dissenting threads should illustrate how people feel about the English subsuming everyone else's identity and using British / English as interchangeable – they're not.

    Nothing repreents this arrogance more pointedly than the playing of the British National Anthem for the English team during the six nations.

    falkirk-mark
    Full Member

    Think you will find some spitfire engines were made here (Photos courtesy of the Lufwaffe)
    http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/search_item/index.php?service=RCAHMS&id=44224
    (Glasgow)
    Happy St Georges day anyway.

    LHS
    Free Member

    There must be lots of better choices one could make to celebrate the wonderful English nation?

    For a lot of people, obviously not, else they wouldn't have posted it. 🙄

    If you disagree then thats fine, you're choice. Best of luck.

    binners
    Full Member

    I was going to make reference to my favourite painting: Turners, The Fighting Temeraire.

    Its stunning in reality. Go to the Tate Britain and have a look

    However. Its got a warship in it and therefore my mentioning it would immediately mark me down as xenophobic and possibly a member of the BNP 😉

    Pigface
    Free Member

    The whole problem with Englishness and being English is that it usually descends into a fight or just something unpleasant. The right intentions are there but a few beers and some sunshine and suddenly everyone acts like a c0ck.

    Lifer
    Free Member

    St George has Nothing to do with the mythology of these islands.

    English identity needs to be reinvented and focused on "Englishness" – you could all start by reinstating your proper patron saint rather than some invented bloke from the eastern Med.

    Who's our 'proper' patron saint? And why do we need a patron saint anyway?

    I'm still campaiging for Alfred the Great Day.

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    rkk01 – Member
    Nothing repreents this arrogance more pointedly than the playing of the British National Anthem for the English team during the six nations.

    FFS use Jerusalem – that is about England and whats more its about the whole of England – not just the southern bit! Its even fairly stirring

    anokdale
    Free Member

    Toomanybikes, same here re work and the English football team but that goal by Paul Gascoigne at Wembley come on that was as good as it gets IMHO

    Binners and Peterpoddy – Quality paintings.

    toomanybikes
    Free Member

    anokdale……oh yes, that Gascoigne goal was great, i do have to admit that

    lowey
    Full Member

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    Happy St. Georges Day everyone.

    "To be born an Englishman is to win the lottery of life."

    Loving the landscape pics guys. This green and pleasant land at this time of year when everything nature is exploding into life is second to non.

    MrWoppit
    Free Member

    "The Fighting Temeraire" is a good analogy of England today. A battered, has-been half-rotten old warship being towed back to the scrapyard by something more modern, to be broken up.

    allthepies
    Free Member

    MrSparkle – great choice of pics.

    toomanybikes
    Free Member

    Mr Woppit……you're such a happy soul

    PeterPoddy
    Free Member

    Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmbeeeer.

    I've got some home brew on the go in the garage. Slurp.

    jon1973
    Free Member

    "The Fighting Temeraire" is a good analogy of England today. A battered, has-been half-rotten old warship being towed back to the scrapyard by something more modern, to be broken up.

    It's funny how the nice weather seems to bring out the best in people.

    rkk01
    Free Member

    Who's our 'proper' patron saint?

    St Edmund – St George is Patron Saint of "places that can't think for themselves"…Georgia excepted!!!

    From Wiki

    Saint George is the patron saint of Aragon, Catalonia, England, Ethiopia, Georgia, Greece, Lithuania, Palestine, Portugal, and Russia, as well as the cities of Amersfoort, Beirut, Fakiha, Bteghrine, Cáceres (Spain), Ferrara, Freiburg, Genoa, Ljubljana, Gozo, Milan, Pomorie, Preston, Salford, Qormi, Rio de Janeiro, Lod, Barcelona and Moscow, as well as a wide range of professions, organizations, and disease sufferers.

    .
    From an Orthodox website

    Although St Edmund has been the patron-saint of England for well over a thousand years, he has gradually been sidelined and today, in this land without saints, he is almost forgotten. Indeed, ever since the definitive establishment of the Normans in this country in the twelfth century, he has come to be neglected. Just as the Normans attempted to replace popular veneration for the Righteous English King Alfred with their fairy-tales and myths of the Non-English King Arthur, so they also tried to replace the memory of the English St Edmund with their crusaders' version of St George.

    Edmund (Eadmund) was born on Christmas Day 841. Christian from infancy, in 856 he succeeded to the throne of what was perhaps the cradle of the English Nation in East Anglia. During his brief reign he came to fight alongside the future King Alfred in order to defend England from the invasions of the pagan Vikings. In 869 a great Viking army landed on the shores of his kingdom and Edmund marched out at the head of his army to defend the realm. The King was defeated and captured. In captivity he was ordered to renounce his faith and become a vassal of the heathen Danes, orders which he stoutly rejected. Repeating the name of Christ with his heart and his lips, he told them: 'Living or dead, nothing shall separate me from the love of Christ'. He was tied to a tree, tortured by being shot through with arrows, and then beheaded. His martyrdom took place on 20 November 869 at Hoxne in High Suffolk and his body was buried in a small wooden chapel nearby.

    In 902 the relics, still incorrupt, were translated to Bedricsworth, at the very crossways of the four counties of Eastern England – Norfolk, Suffolk, Essex and Cambridgeshire. This town soon came to be called 'Edmundstowe', 'Edmundston' and finally was renamed Bury St. Edmunds. From this time on St Edmund became a local, and soon, national patron. In 929 the humble pilgrim King Athelstan founded a community to care for his shrine. In 945 another royal grandson of King Alfred, called Edmund, gave them further lands. St. Edmund had become the ideal English hero, a king and a martyr. The last purely English King of England, Edmund Ironside (+1014), was also named after him. In 1020 a monastic church was built over his shrine by King Canute and this was served by monks from Ely. Even after the final Viking Invasion and Occupation of 1066, the martyr's relics were placed in a refurbished shrine in a new church in 1095 and they continued to be a place of national pilgrimage.

    However, in 1199 the French King of England, Richard I, was to call at the tomb of St. George in Lydda, while on the Third Crusade. Invoking the saint, he won a great victory and consequently placed himself and his army under St. George's protection. St. Edmund, however, remained the national patron. Thus in 1214 the future Magna Carta barons, in opposing Richard's younger brother, King John, rode to Bury St. Edmunds on St Edmund's day to make a pledge at the altar of St. Edmund to strengthen the national cause. In 1215 the Magna Carta was signed by King John in the water meadows of Runnymede. As a result of this historic event the motto of Bury St Edmunds remains to this day: 'Shrine of a King, Cradle of the Law'.

    However, in the dynastic struggle after the hated King John's death in 1216, nearly all St Edmund's relics were stolen by French knights in 1217. They were taken to Toulouse in France and here they remained until 1901. The first consequence of this loss was that three years later, in 1220, St. George, already the personal patron of the sovereign, was inserted in the national calendar by Richard I's nephew, Henry III (1216-1272). Although the banner of St. Edmund was still carried by English forces in battle, by the time of Edward I (1272-1307) it had been joined by the banner of St. George.

    The eclipse of St. Edmund continued in the reign of Edward III (1327-77) with the founding of the Order of the Garter dedicated to Our Lady and St. George. The English veneration of kingship allowed St. George to usurp the national patronage, although his title was never patron but 'specyel protectour and defendour of this royaume' (special protector and defender of the realm). However, even as late as the reign of Richard 11 (1377-99), a fine representation of St. Edmund as a national patron was made in the Wilton Diptych. In this he was accompanied by Edward the Confessor and St. John the Baptist as personal patrons, and there was still no sign of St. George.

    Although in the reign of Henry VII (1457-1509), St. George was still only designated 'protector of the realm', it was under the Machiavellian tyrant Henry VIII (1491-1547) that St. Edmund became totally eclipsed. Henry actually removed St Edmund's name from the litanies of saints venerated in England and in 1539 he had the monastery at St Edmundsbury dissolved. Indeed after the Protestant Reformation, St George came to be one of the few saints to be at all known to the Protestant Church in England. Most of the relics of St Edmund (not the head-relic) were returned to the Roman Catholic authorities in England in 1901 and they are kept locked away at a private Catholic chapel in Arundel in Sussex.

    It is our belief that these relics will not return to their home-town and their rightful veneration until English people return to him and all the values for which he stands. As Orthodox, with a history going back not only beyond the 469 years of the Protestant phase of English history (1535-2004), but also beyond the 469 years of the Roman Catholic phase of our island history (1066-1535), we believe that it is time for us to restore St Edmund to his rightful place in our history and in our hearts. He is the Light from the East, the gift born on Christmas Day, the defender of England and the defender of the right, the miracle of national unity and the revival of Christian Orthodoxy and national patriotism. His name, meaning 'blessed protection', recalls to us the words of his ancient hymn:

    Seems to me like he fought for England and died for (and in England) – Unlike St george, who never* set foot in England
    .
    .
    * Probably

    Aristotle
    Free Member

    uplink
    Free Member

    binners
    Full Member

    Christ! there are some utterly joyless bastards on here.

    Another celebration of wonderful culture:

    MrWoppit
    Free Member

    Ah yes. The Magna Carta. Made such a difference to the serfs – getting your face ground into the dirt by a bunch of "Barons" instead of a "King".

    Republic now, please.

    Lifer
    Free Member

    Secular Republic – no patron saints needed

    lowey
    Full Member

    Christ! there are some utterly joyless bastards on here.

    +1

    SpokesCycles
    Free Member

    RustySpanner
    Full Member

    Aristotle
    Free Member

    I agree. Dis-band the monarchy and, therefore, that dirge of a British National anthem, dis-establish the CofE and get rid of first-past-the-post elections.

    Back on topic:


    (Okay, built by the Normans….)

    toomanybikes
    Free Member

    Christ! there are some utterly joyless bastards on here

    certainly are, makes you wonder why they live here, if it's such a bad place to live…………the eastern europeans seem to think it great!!!

    Dales_rider
    Free Member



    singletrackmatt
    Full Member

    Carnival ;]

    Aristotle
    Free Member

    Lifer
    Free Member

    toomanybikes – Member
    Christ! there are some utterly joyless bastards on here

    certainly are, makes you wonder why they live here, if it's such a bad place to live…………the eastern europeans seem to think it great!!!

    As has been said a few times on this thread you can be proud of your country without having to wave a bit of cloth around or envoking the spirit of someone who has nothing to do with England.

    singletrackmatt
    Full Member

    Eid celebrations Manchester

    singletrackmatt
    Full Member

    Gay Pride London

    Lifer
    Free Member

    Dales Rider I see you and raise you:

    Drac
    Full Member

    You're right about Tikka Masala, my mistake. Learn something new everyday.

    Well right in the sense something else Scotland claims to have come up with but may not be true. A bit like haggis, whisky, telephones and kilts.

    Ooh Bamburgh Caslte good choice.

    hp_source
    Full Member

    The best 4x4xFar

    and why not….

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