The Empire STRIKES back…Who's striking then…

On the strike side – if changes need to be made then you have to accept them,

By that logic we’re right to strike. Thanks for your support.

On the strike side – if changes need to be made then you have to accept them

That is the most stupid thing I’ve read all week…

Prezet – well you raise a more real issue. But as The Guardian summarised the debate recently:

For the government, it is only fair that state-backed workers pay more contributions – an extra £3bn a year by 2014/2015 – and work longer in order to justify pensions that, unlike most of their private sector counterparts, have a defined benefit or guaranteed monthly payout at the end of them. They are, after all, underwritten by the taxpayer. For unions, it is unfair because a pension is a key reason for doing a job that can involve more mental and physical toil than the average private sector post (although experts claim that the real reason for decent public sector pensions is an historic wage disparity with the private sector). They also argue that the sheer scale of reform sought by the government is unjust: raising the retirement age in line with the state pension age; switching the rate at which benefits grow from the RPI rate of inflation to the less buoyant CPI; moving staff in the NHS, local government, civil service, schools and uniformed services from final salary schemes – where the payout is a proportion of the salary at the end of your career – to pensions schemes that payout a proportion of your average earnings over your whole career.

And for this we have strikes and posturing – while large proportions of the UK have no/little pension provision at all. This makes so much sense?!!!?

On the strike side – if changes need to be made then you have to accept them

You are David Cameron and I claim my 5 English pounds. Aren’t you a bit busy for loitering on interweb Fora?

Many people seem to be thinking that if we strike it will provoke the tories into worse excess. They are already threatening us with this.

In my view, thats like rolling over and not fighting back against a bully in case he hits you harder.

The fact is that they want to destroy the public sector to provide easy profits for their own, and will do so whether we accept this deal or not.
Theres no point trying to appease them. They will be back next year with more demands.

And for this we have strikes and posturing – while large proportions of the UK have no/little pension provision at all. This makes so much sense?!!!?

That fact that I have no pension provision does not mean I want those in the public sector to have to go without too. I fully support their strikes – if I was in a similar position I would be defending my pension too. There seems to be a opinion in the private sector that “if I don’t have it, neither should they”.

I do see that we’re going to have a major problem in a couple of decades in how the government plan to support the growing numbers of those claiming pensions from the state. But this is where legislation needs to be put into place to encourage private sector workers to invest in their own pension pots (or similar).

But people are hard pressed at the moment – with very little spare income to put aside for the future.

LOL! Changes happen but so many people seem reluctant to accept change. If you don’t like it bugger off but don’t hold the country to ransom.

The unions did that the British Leyland and look where that got them!!!

I’m losing a day’s pay because of this so I can look after my kids cause the teachers are on strike.

I’m losing a day’s pay because of this so I can look after my kids cause the teachers are on strike.

These things happen you just have to accept it.

I’m losing a day’s pay because of this so I can look after my kids cause the teachers are on strike.

Why not offer to look after some of their classmates too, so that their parents can go in to work? Or, perhaps there’s someone else with kids in their class who can look after your kids too, as they’d be off work anyway?

Putting money into pensions in the private sector? Hmmmmmmmm – The trouble is that companies seem to have grown rather accustomed to raiding their (not actually ‘theirs’ but yours) pension schemes. this generally isn’t uncovered until its too late.

And Private Pensions? Well… where to start? How many ‘reputable’ banks and building Societies have been done for miss-selling (fraud by any other name). When I look at the cash I’ve paid into mine over the years, then look at what that would deliver me. There seems not much correlation. Someone’s made alot of money in fees etc, that’s for bloody sure

I’m going to be there, with a Legal Observer. We shall be carefully monitoring police activity*. 😀

*In the interests of Justice and Democracy, of course…

I reckon its great

for every day you strike, you’re saving the taxpayer about 0.5% of your annual salary bill – about a billion pounds a day if all public sector workers were on strike.

take 4 days off on strike in the next fiscal year, and you’ll be making the governments planned salary savings for them 😆

If you don’t like it bugger off but don’t hold the country to ransom.

You’d like 2 million of the people who run the education system, health care and other essential services to “bugger off”?

These things happen you just have to accept it.

I have and moved on.

We’ve all had to make sacrifices after the financial problems, this is just another facet of that. My wifes business failed due to the credit crunch and left us with a massive debt – did I go on strike cause it wasn’t fair – no I’ve worked bloody hard to dig myself out of that hole.

I just find it funny that in the private sector things work so much differently than in the public sector where people expect so much more. I’m sure my company pension (which has changed three times in the last 8 years) is bugger all when compared to public sector but do I moan? no, I just get on with it and make my own plans.

ZuluEleven – PMSL!!!

I’m losing a day’s pay because of this so I can look after my kids cause the teachers are on strike.

So what? Since when has this strike bin about you?

My wifes business failed due to the credit crunch

Don’t want to sound harsh, but was it purely because of the credit crunch? Nothing to do with taking excessive financial risks? Lack of a contingency plan for such worst case scenario? I’d be interested to read why it failed actually.

This isn’t about me so I’m not going to answer the question on why her business failed apart from to say a key customer pulled out of an agreement citing “difficult economic factors”.

So, she din’t have the mechanisms in place to prevent such a thing from happening, or sufficient funds to cover the loss, then?

Not meaning to be nasty at all, seriously, just trying to understand exactly how things happen, and how they can possibly be prevented.

“if I don’t have it, neither should they”

– is pretty much the beginning and end of all the anti-Public Sector cant on this and the several other related threads. It’s not a strong argument.

Elfinsaftey – This is proper OT so if you really want to know I’ll email you if you provide your email address.

The unions did that the British Leyland and look where that got them!!!

Ah yes the demise of BL had absolutely nothing to do with the awful management of the company, it was all the unions fault 🙄

LOL! in the same way as the governments management of the country…

I’m so glad I’m not in the public sector.

With the petrol prices, energy companies hiking up rates etc. There’s just nothing left to fund a pension at the end of the month.

thats an interesting thought – however what would happen if someone just took the money (as another tax) – the government could run a ‘average income’ scheme for the whole country – everyone chucks in 15% of salery and gets (say) 1.5% of average salery for each year you contribute, linked to inflation. If you were forced to pay, it’d fix a lot of issues

We’ve all had to make sacrifices after the financial problems, this is just another facet of that. My wifes business failed due to the credit crunch and left us with a massive debt – did I go on strike cause it wasn’t fair – no I’ve worked bloody hard to dig myself out of that hole.

Yes we know that working in the public sector we’ve seen job loses, pay freezes and restructuring too. I’m working hard now too so when I retire I have a nest egg but that’s under threat and we’ve had enough off just accepting it. There is no need just to accept it so we’re standing up. Just because private sectors don’t always take action does’t mean we shouldn’t.

thats an interesting thought – however what would happen if someone just took the money (as another tax) – the government could run a ‘average income’ scheme for the whole country – everyone chucks in 15% of salery and gets (say) 1.5% of average salery for each year you contribute, linked to inflation. If you were forced to pay, it’d fix a lot of issues

A good idea.

after these strikes have finished there will be whole scale privaitation and closure of a lot of departments, with the private sector creating new ghost ones.

We only have to look at the apst to see what was privatiseed or sold off or even closed d down.

CEGB,
BRITISH GAS,
BRITISH STEEL CORPORATION,
NCB,
BRITISH LEYLAND, CAR AND TRUCK AND BUS,
BRITISH RAIL,
NATIOANL CARRIERS,
THE ROAD TRANSPORT INDUSTRY THAT WAS OWNED BY THE GOVERNMNET,
NUCLEAR POWER,
THE GPO, TELEPHONE SIDE , NOE BT.
and lots lots more.

All split up, and sold, or just destroyed.

Back to the OP; I am striking.

Ah yes the demise of BL had absolutely nothing to do with the awful management of the company, it was all the unions fault

Also, let’s not forget that British Leyland was nationalised because it had failed as a private-sector company. Fast-forward to 2008…

Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.

Oh, and I’m striking too.

BL, was an amalgamation of numerous truck/bus/coach and car companies along with a few others along the way.

I read this quote from someone in the TUC;
“All money they’ve asked for is going straight back to the Treasury, going to pay off the debt”

Well at least they understand the reasons, its just a shame that they cant understand why the country needs to get away from being billions in debt and that every little helps 🙂

I’m sure my company pension (which has changed three times in the last 8 years) is bugger all when compared to public sector but do I moan? no, I just get on with it

So, your company directors are probably taking ever more in wages and benefits for themselves, in the mean time reducing the pay/pensions/conditions of ordinary workers (at least that’s what’s happening in most sectors/companies), and you think it’s a good thing that you don’t moan and ‘just get on with it’?

Well at least they understand the reasons, its just a shame that they cant understand why the country needs to get away from being billions in debt and that every little helps

We could of course crack down on tax evasion by the mega-rich and large corporations, rather than the pay/pensions of ordinary workers, but of course that wouldn’t go down well with the Tories’ financial backers.

Well at least they understand the reasons, its just a shame that they cant understand why the country needs to get away from being billions in debt and that every little helps

So if the government proposes to raise your income tax by 10%, presumably you’d be quite happy for them to do so?

We could of course crack down on tax evasion by the mega-rich and large corporations, rather than the pay/pensions of ordinary workers, but of course that wouldn’t go down well with the Tories’ financial backers.

What kind of socialist nonsense is this? 😉

crack down on tax evasion by the mega-rich and large corporations, rather than the pay/pensions of ordinary workers, but of course that wouldn’t go down well with the Tories’ financial backers.

which political party is going to do that, i certainly dont remember getting that sort of warm fuzzy socialist feeling with previous governments

which political party is going to do that, i certainly dont remember getting that sort of warm fuzzy socialist feeling with previous governments

Much as I despair at Labour these days, at least there is still some kind of influence from the unions to act against corporate greed etc – pretty pathetic admittedly but perhaps marginally better than the current mob.

Also, let’s not forget that British Leyland was nationalised because it had failed as a private-sector company.

Aha, but do you recall the precursor, and why it failed?

BLMC was created in 1968 by the merger of British Motor Holdings (BMH) and Leyland Motor Corporation (LMC), encouraged by Tony Benn as chairman of the Industrial Reorganisation Committee created by the Wilson Government. At the time, LMC was a successful manufacturer, while BMH was perilously close to collapse. The Government was hopeful LMC’s expertise would revive the ailing BMH.

So, profitable private company burdened with millstone by Labour government intervention, leading to failure.

Fast-forward to 2008…

Ooh, yes – Lets 😀

On 18 September 2008 the terms of the recommended offer for HBOS by Lloyds TSB were announced.
A group of Scottish businessmen challenged the right of the UK government to approve the deal by overruling UK competition law, but this was rejected. The takeover was approved by HBOS shareholders on 12 December.
Prime Minister Gordon Brown personally brokered the deal with Lloyds TSB, an official said: “It is not the role of a Prime Minister to tell a City institution what to do”

And we all know what happened to Lloyds TSB 😆

Well done! All you’ve proved is that the right wingers were right – the government should never have intervened, as it inevitably leads to disaster

binners – Member

I think the unions were far too keen to get out on strike. They need to be shrewd. The Tories will be. Unfortunately, I feel this is the opening salvo from them. I think they’re settling in for the long haul. A prolonged battle. With who-knows-what ultimate aims. Depressing

I’m a public sector worker and am not in a union – I don’t agree with a strike at this time. Working to rule would have been a much better move; I think we are indeed in for the long-haul and IMO the unions have just played their strongest hand at the earliest opportunity.

I will therefore be crossing the picket line tomorrow morning, its not something I will particularly look forward to but I genuinely think striking now (not striking EVER) is wrong, and believe me when I’ve thought long and hard about it.

I know that I will not be alone in coming in too.

Well done! All you’ve proved is that the right wingers were right – the government should never have intervened, as it inevitably leads to disaster

All I’ve proved is that the government intervenes after the private sector has royally screwed up.

I’m not sure why people are debating the British Leyland analogy. I fail to see the parallels between a vehicle manufacturer and a school

grum – Member

which political party is going to do that, i certainly dont remember getting that sort of warm fuzzy socialist feeling with previous governments

Much as I despair at Labour these days, at least there is still some kind of influence from the unions to act against corporate greed etc – pretty pathetic admittedly but perhaps marginally better than the current mob.

probably due to the £30+ million they donate p.a. via contributions, affliation fees and direct support for politians campaign’s

http://order-order.com/tag/cash-for-votes/