The Empire STRIKES back…Who's striking then…

So binners, what do you think teachers should accept as their pay cut? and what should the Government be doing to show them that “we are all in this together?”

I don’t know. Its not my job to come up with answers, is it?

I’m not taking sides here. That’s my whole point. But, predictably, this seems to have been lost. Though I am sympathetic to the public sector workers situation

It seems to me, and I’m sure a lot of other people, that any pretense to negotiation has been replaced by childish bickering and macho posturing.

At some point the two sides are going to have to negotiate a settlement. There is no option to this. But in the meantime, the public, who lest we forget, have seen pay freezes, cuts, etc, have precious little appetite to watch the fight. Its not helping anyone

Id love to be at home! But sadly the mrs one that battle

Unlucky Unfit but sounds like you do an admirable job.

I don’t know. Its not my job to come up with answers, is it?

Quite – that’s the government’s job. Trouble is, what’s the question?

If the question is ‘how do we navigate the country out of its current economic position’ then the government’s answer to this has led to tomorrow’s strike.

The representatives of the people who will be directly affected by the government’s chosen answer believe not only that the answer is wrong, but also that more sinister ideological motives lie behind it. Other than withdrawing labour en masse, what else could the unions calling the strike be expected to do to voice this disagreement?

Its not the unions’ job to come up with answers either – its their job to try and ensure their members, who will have to keep doing their jobs long after the current cabinet retire to a life of comfort, are not shat on by a government borne of privilege (like all British governments before them) and immune to the personal consequences of the decisions it makes. They absolutely have to be up for a fight, because that’s what they’re faced with.

Everyone is quick to blame this government, looks to me that most people have forgotton that the last government also put us in debt!

Two war ships being built not ready for years and we have no defence! Thats not very clever is it ?

Its simply not fair to blame this government for the mess…

I am in no way a conservative just saying what I see!

Everyone is quick to blame this government, looks to me that most people have forgotton that the last government also put us in debt!

That would be the Government then.

I’ll be honest with you: I despise the Tories. Always have. And it was entirely predictable that they were going to set out on this course. Its their default setting.

But the unions have been absolutely brainless! They’re playing right into their hands.

This afternoon, they’re going to announce the worst economic figures this country has ever seen. Achieved through monumentally stupid economic policies. Do you think the predominantly right-wing press will be focusing on this? Of course they bloody won’t! They have a picture of some Bob Crow-a-like snarling all over their front pages

Wrong fight! Wrong time! Far too Knee-jerk. The unions need some cleverer people in charge who aren’t trying to hark back to the ‘glory days’ of the seventies. Because every day this goes on,,the public’s sympathy gets less and less

No-one is blaming the current government for the economic crisis. What they’re being blamed for is their proposed solutions to it and the effect these proposals will have on so many people.

that would be the government then !

I’m not striking but will only be going to emergencies, guessing it’s gonna be a mad night for us.
Hope the weather calms down a bit, take care out there tonight my north of the border peeps.
(I believe the action down south starts in the morning rather than midnight up here?)

Midnight to midnight for us,

Binners – whilst I agree that there is a lot of posturing on all sides which is not useful or productive in finding a solution, the importance of attitudianl differences is not to be underestimated. A central tenet in conservative political ideology is a focus on the role of the private sector and a belief in the reduction of the public sector. Although it is interesting to debate contrasting political philosophies (and I can usually do so for hours …), when those ideaologies are backed by a position of power, they become more challenging. It is therefore very difficult to find a ‘solution’ (via discussion or other means) when you have people approaching the same situation from different, but strongly held, ideological attitudes. Attitudinal differences will rarely respond to dispassionate discussion based purely on rational evidence, as all ‘facts’ are interpreted through an ideological filter. So unfortunately, based on an understanding of human attitudes and their impact on behaviours, I don’t think a consensus will be achieved.

I’m on strike on Wednesday for a few reasons. Mostly importantly to me is that it is the only opportunity to get my voice heard. And I think that is the case with many people. And it is in protest against a cumulative situation – 20% reduction in staff with no reduction in workload (resulting in working unpaid in the evening and weekends); cuts in services to the most vulnerable in society (and that hits home very personally as it has substantially reduced my brother’s quality of life, which was pitiful enough at the best of times), while pay freezes and pension issues are effectly a significant salary cut.

Is going on strike the ‘answer’? No. But then I don’t think we will achieve an answer via any other means, so this is a way for me to express what I feel about the situation. I would prefer not to strike, I can’t really afford to lose a days pay, and I have far too much work to do, but I joined a Union to provide a collective voice on my behalf, so I will support this action.

Good man. I’d heard dawn sarf it was 7am.
Fair play though, will be taking some provisions to the folk I’m guessing will be outside our hospital tonight..
Might need to audit our blanket store too..

Well said Sue, +1

unfitgeezer, it sounds like you’re running a brilliant service and I wish you lots of luck. It also sounds like it’s funded, at least in part, by public sector funding.

Here’s a thought: if you don’t have a pension, who’s going to look after you if/when you’re unable to work?

unfitgeezer – Member
I started/manage a bike shop six years ago that is owned by a charity, we employ 3 adults with learning difficulties on a full time basis and 5 more adults come and gain work experience throughout the week.

I do this on my own I don’t receive a pension nor can I afford one I earn under £30000 and have a family, my wife doesn’t work as child care would be more than we earn! (she is a trained nurse)

There you go shout abuse at me all you like!

Nice one. Sounds like you have a rewarding job and add something to society. You’d probably find you share a similar outlook on life with many in the public sector. Keep up the good work, and i hope cuts to the third sector don’t hit your business too hard. It is a shame you’re wife’s skills aren’t being used more, as her training would have been a significant investment. Childcare is stupidly expensive.

As I said strike away you get no sympathy from me…

As pointed out above, we’re not after sympathy.

I’m in the private sector, the wife’s works in the Public sector, she’s not striking but they have been told if you go out your position is in jeapordy when the next round of job cuts take place in the new year.

Nothing like a good bit of black-mail to prevent the democratic to air your views. 🙄

Good man. I’d heard dawn sarf it was 7am.

Seems to be based on each local Union. There’s designated picket lines for ours, well the Union said there will be and they’d give us plenty notice. 13 hours is enough I suppose so maybe they’ll let us know soon.

if you go out your position is in jeapordy when the next round of job cuts take place in the new year.

Really? NIce employers she’s got I do hope she got that in writing?

Will sell my children…

as terrible as it sounds our pension will most likely be the sale of my fathers house/inlaws when they are no longer with us…and investing then.

Sue_W
It takes a lot to draw me into these debates, but I just wanted to say well done, the most rational discource this forum has seen for awhile IMHO.

…..will rarely respond to dispassionate discussion based purely on rational evidence, as all ‘facts’ are interpreted through an ideological filter.

Umfortunately evidenced by both sides and mirrored daily on here.

jimster – Member
I’m in the private sector, the wife’s works in the Public sector, she’s not striking but they have been told if you go out your position is in jeapordy when the next round of job cuts take place in the new year.

Nothing like a good bit of black-mail to prevent the democratic to air your views

Is that even legal? Presumably she has told her union rep…?

Sue – I can understand completely where you’re coming from.

But just as an example: If everyone is so short-staffed and over-worked,a work to rule would have a massive effect! Thus putting the unions in a much stronger position in negotiations.

I think the unions were far too keen to get out on strike. They need to be shrewd. The Tories will be. Unfortunately, I feel this is the opening salvo from them. I think they’re settling in for the long haul. A prolonged battle. With who-knows-what ultimate aims. Depressing

Drac – Moderator
Midnight to midnight for us,

Mersey tunnels are closed tonight from 23.45, to 00,145 on friday, no mersey ferries or cross river buses, just 25 year old trains running through a 150 year old river tunnel.

SO there will be massive queues at runcorn bridge and m53/m56.

and i would be curious to know how thats not going to disrupt ordinry peeps lives,and work places and what its going to achieve.

I think the Tories are loving that the unions are going to strike. It’s perfect ammunition for them. The media and politicians are whipping up a storm staying how the unions are not prepared to negotiate – getting the general public have anti-union and anti-public sector views (which seems to be working).

It gives them ammunition to privatize the NHS and schools. Which is already quietly happening, academy’s etc. My missus is striking tomorrow, she doesn’t want to, but feels the offer on the table isn’t quite the deal the Tories are claiming it is – she has to work more hours, for less, pay in more (which she has no problem with), for less (which she has a problem with) etc etc.

She was also told the other day that if they did not accept the new terms, then their contract would be removed, terms re-written anyway, and they’d have to reapply for their jobs. Doesn’t exactly sound like negotiation by the Tories to me.

Before all this kicked off, I have very little views on one party or another. They’re all a bunch of lying, thieving bastards – but the Tories are beyond that. They literally make me feel sick having to listen to their lies when being interviewed on the TV.

The sooner this country gets used to being stagnant and realises wealth generation doesn’t (relatively) live here any more the sooner we can all be happy playing around on bicycles. Happiness can be cheap. It’s up to you.

A lot of people (some in power) need to look at where we are not where we were.

Oh and stop giving aid to India

Happiness can be cheap.

Indeed. Few go into the public sector to have an outrageous lifestyle (except politicians), they go in to do a service (teachers, nurses, doctors) – and we should support them. Not keep beating them down.

Oh and stop giving aids to India

I assume that was a typo and fixed it. Anything else would have been stupid

from a curiosity perspective, what would happen if the government forced the changes through? Is there a (legal) limit to how long a strike can last? obviously most people wouldn’t have the money to keep it going particularly long, if its unpaid time?

obviously most people wouldn’t have the money to keep it going particularly long, if its unpaid time?

Interesting question.

I wonder how long the country would keep going with all the schools shut?

jimster – Member
I’m in the private sector, the wife’s works in the Public sector, she’s not striking but they have been told if you go out your position is in jeapordy when the next round of job cuts take place in the new year.

Nothing like a good bit of black-mail to prevent the democratic to air your views

Is that even legal? Presumably she has told her union rep…?

The union reps at her office are friendly with the management, so pointless really.

I genuinely wouldn’t put it past this lot to be trying to provoke the kind of entrenched, and violent confrontation they had with the miners in the 80’s. Lets not forget, it did them a lot of good! Though everyone else suffered

I could see them, after a suitable period of confrontation, pulling a stunt like finding every striker in breach of contract, sacking them, then offering them re-negotiated contracts on massively reduced terms.
All Tories are evil. FACT!

I could see them, after a suitable period of confrontation, pulling a stunt like finding every striker in breach of contract, sacking them, then offering them re-negotiated contracts on massively reduced terms.

Already being pulled – funny how it’s not being reported by the media though.

She was also told the other day that if they did not accept the new terms, then their contract would be removed, terms re-written anyway, and they’d have to reapply for their jobs. Doesn’t exactly sound like negotiation by the Tories to me.

5thElefant – Member

I’ll work well into my 70s at the very least. Regardless of whether I have to. What else is there to do?

on this site? IMO you are either Jedis understudy or lying or just lack imagination.

Hopefully, when the posturing is over, attention will come back to the “real” pension problem in the UK.

The UK has a workforce of 29 million people. Some 23 million of these are employed in the private sector. Of these, only 3.2 million contribute to a workplace pension scheme that also includes a contribution from their employer. The number of people actively saving in company pension schemes in the private sector has almost halved since 1991. (source: BBC today).

Pension education for the majority of the UK’s workforce should be the government’s priority.

True – but how many people can actually afford to put money into a pension? I know I can’t.

With the petrol prices, energy companies hiking up rates etc. There’s just nothing left to fund a pension at the end of the month.

Unfitgeezer, what charity is it, and how can we help to donate or support it?

I’m always surprised people think there is still such a thing as a job for life, and expect to stay in the same place. The thought of still working in my industry / role in 25 years time scares the hell out of me, I’ve already got a plan on where I want to be in 5-10 years.

On the pension side, I’m making arrangements so my income stream won’t be based from a pension pot where the age I qualify or how it is invested is controlled by someone else. I want to have a degree of financial freedom (not that it will be a big pot of money) to decide when and how I use my money. A pension is great but other assets and financial vehicles are much better.

On the strike side – if changes need to be made then you have to accept them, look at those who have been made redundant, had a wage cut or seen their job roles change in the private sector.

You cheese is moving – find a new one!!!

On the strike side – if changes need to be made then you have to accept them

Clearly not.