thatcher

Thatcher’s more popular than Bliar you know – and many more

McDonalds is more popular than any other food retail chain…

Thatcher – the Citroen 2cv of British politics…

(tonight Matthew, I will be drinking Carlsberg Export £2 for four at Morrissons)

McDonalds is more popular than any other food retail chain…

……and your dear leader RB/Fred wasnt even elected to be Prime Minister. At least she won an election (plural as well)

Hora – stop being a plonker – we do not and have never voted for our prime minister. we vote for Mps who then elect a prime minister.

No-one is elected to Prime Minister, you twonk. You vote for your local Member of Parliament. The Prime Minister is the leader of the party with the majority of MPs elected to the House of Commons.

And you talk about reading, rather than gaining info from Wiki?? You don’t even know how Parliamentary elections work! S’not the USA, you know! We don’t have a President (yet).

And I have no idea to whom you are referring as my ‘Dear Leader’.

its a lot to wade through sorry if i missed any points.
im a schemie from an old labour/CPGB background, i grew up in its an all “maggies fault” environment.

doin recent research for my own interest found out that scargill called an illegal strike, the miners where not given the chance to vote for/against the strike in any way at all. pretty easy to check this for yourself.
the conservative government had actually approved a pay and conditions improvment that had never been seen before or since in any industry or union. although the new deal would have resulted in lost jobs in the name of “cost cutting”. maggie responded with a total “F you then” when the strike was called resulting in great hardship for many more thousands of families than if the deal had went through.

her and the rest of the country would not feel much effect from the scargill led crises but the miners would. the power stations had enough stockpiles/alternatives/scabs to get around the strike.

now poll tax thats a different matter 🙄

ps without her we might never have had mr whippy ice cream.

she was not the antichrist but she wasnt that nice when she went about her business either, im pretty sure most of the country cheered when we sunk the belgrano(sp) or shot up the people in the iranian embassy.

im pretty sure most of the country cheered when we sunk the belgrano(sp) or shot up the people in the iranian embassy.

Yeah, we love a bit of death, us. 🙄

am interested to learn what the connection is between Mr Whippy Ice Cream & Thatcher is…

had to edit the post cos i spelt thatcher wrong!!! (legacy of a 1980s education?)

tangent – Member

am interested to learn what the connection is between Mr Whippy Ice Cream & Thatcher is…

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ernie_lynch – Member

Come on Fred, what about the Mr Whippy!

I bet you will normally have paid someone, before uttering those words Labrat.

Although I find your repeated reference to Thatcher’s involvement with research into ice cream production interesting.

Because as we all know, Thatcher’s research involved finding ways of inflating ice cream with air so that it would appear that there was more, than there actually was.

So long before she became ‘the milk snatcher’, Thatcher was earning an honest living trying to figure out new ways of ripping off children of their pocket money.

How extraordinary fitting.

Posted 4 weeks ago #

I was never a fan of that fluffy airy stuff anyway. Always prefered something denser. Lasted longer, you got yer money’s worth. And Mr Whippy would melt in 5 seconds, on a hot day.

I knew something weren’t right about it, even then.

Doh, unfortunately for the country Arthur Scargill was right. He predicted that it would not be some job losses but wholesale destruction of the mining industry with or without a strike. We now have 10 or less deep mines left in the country and precious little chance of resurrecting the old mines as the pumps were turned off. At some point in the near future we will regret this short-sighted approach.

“Hora – stop being a plonker – we do not and have never voted for our prime minister. we vote for Mps who then elect a prime minister.”

MP’s elect a leader to head their campaign and then the voters chose between the respective leaders/personalities/qualities etc.

Ergo, we did not vote Brown into power. A **** up who wasnt chosen by the people.

Seems Healey and Thatcher get on well now – if he can forgive can you?!

Healey hugged Thatcher

An interesting question sprung to mind – vaguely related to this thread so I thought I’d pop it in here (might distract you from all the silly arguments).

Who was the last British Prime Minister to become PM by winning a general election, and stop being PM because of losing a general election?

is she still not dead yet???

A racer – Heath? Callaghan?

Working backwards –
Brown – appointed after election
Blair elected but resigned
Major appointed then lost election
Thatcher elected then resigned
Forgot the order

Callaghan? Was there a gap between two shots? He was appointed then lost election???
Wilson – won election then resigned?

Heath??

Not altogether sure – its a while ago

Right Idea breaking something, just the wrong neck IMO.

Major appointed then lost election

Major (somehow)won an election in 92 didn’t he ?

>Major (somehow)won an election in 92 didn’t he ?

Yup.

Elected ’90, won GE in ’92, lost GE in ’97.

Margaret is truly the greatest PM w’ve ever had, smashed the Unions/Scargill etc..Right to buy, finished of the 3 day week.

Boris and Dave have the right idea in crushing the RMT/Bob Crow

Trailmonkey – I think the idea was a PM who was elected when first to no10 and left after loosing – so tho Major won an election he arrived at no 10 appointed

Having had a think about who I thought the answer was I realised the question is slightly ambiguous (should have known, given the important point which changes the answer is actually one I’ve brought up on here before). So I’ll try again – if I phrase it properly, this is a far more interesting question!

Who was the last British Prime Minister to take up office for the first time on winning a general election and to leave office for the final time immediately after losing a general election.

There are clues (to who it’s not) in the question.

Heath

Wrong

Hmmm

Got me puzzled then. Callaghan was appointed IIRC and Wilson resigned.

Must be before that then which is before my time

Churchill?

Getting very close. Before my time too – I had to research it (your previous answer is what I thought the answer was when I posted the first question).

I’d be guessing and I can’t be bothered researching.

Good question tho.

There will be no winner of this argument and Rudeboy’s cheap and nasty icecream (the stuff of old – which he looks back on so positively) will have melted and made a right mess everywhere. The sort of icecream that was the best available in the old days when we had a labour government and everything was perfect (according to Rudeboy). Oh sorry, we still have a Labour government don’t we? I blame Margaret Thatcher!

Without web forums, we’d all be down the pub arguing whilst under the influence – much more fun!

It rained last night at our barbeque. That was Margaret Thatcher’s fault too!

Lanesra – Member
Margaret is truly the greatest PM w’ve ever had, smashed the Unions/Scargill etc..Right to buy, finished of the 3 day week.

Check your facts, as stated previously on this thread, the three day week came under Heath, Callaghans government therefore, by your logic should be credited, not Thatchers.

Some years ago, I had some pretty major staffing problems at a company I managed. The Chairman, who was a bit of a facist frankly, was threatening to wind the business up if the workforce bacame unionised. I called in ACAS in an effort to arbitrate and resolve. The truist line I ever heard on the subject came out of the ACAS’s guys lips when talking to the Chairman. These were, “you’ll get a union if you deserve one”.

Think about that in the context of the miners strike and the Tory generated 3 day week, then come back and have another look with your muddled thinking. . . . . esra!

People having **** up memories. All they can remember is ‘Yuppies’ and the angst from previous years (the 70’s) is lumped on Thatchers shoulders.

Dont forget the dark years of recession and oil crisis etc were pre 1979 when Thatcher took over. She had to deal with all the crap when she won power. Then when Britain was still on its knees a couple of years later Argentina made its move. A lesser person would have concentrated on problems at home at the expense of everything. Thatcher was brave. We didnt have to go into Iraq. We had to go into the Falklands.

The STWers who are older and post on here- why do you blame the 70’s years on Thatcher? I dont get that.[/u]

Hora, you might read a bit of history, too.
IIRC, I was there in the 70s and the 3-day week & recession was cleared up well before Thatcher took over.

She took the decision to downgrade the UK presence in the S.Atlantic, and removed the support vessels which gave Argentina the signal that we weren’t interested in the Falklands. She neglected the diplomacy and ignored the build-up of Argentinian forces. It was a war that she allowed to happen, and that gave her an election victory that she’d otherwise have lost.

Falklands : Thatcher was negotiating with the Argentinians to hand the Falklands back to them. She ordered the withdrawal of the “gunship” that had been on station there forever. At the same time she was busily reducing our armed forces ability to operate at a distance. (Hermes and Invincible, one was on the way to the scrap yard, and the other had been sold to the Australian Navy at the time!!!!) These actions were taken as a diplomatic signal by the Argentinians that we would not respond if they made a move. The nett result being that Thatcher went from the least popular mid term government in history to the most popular. It is only possible to speculate on the logic behind her actions. It most certainly wasn’t her finest hour by any stretch of the imagination, unless of course what then followed over the next 18 years leaves you moist!!

In military terms we got away with it by the skin of our teeth against a tin pot South American dictatorship. The loss of the Atlantic Conveyor took out the majority of our Chinook helicopters, thus the ensuing much vaunted yomp across the islands. If anyone sees that as a fanatastic outcome on her part, just remember that a) the war happened because of her in the first instance, b) it succeeded due to some major bottle and unnecessarily high casualties on the part of the military mainly forced upon them by cut backs.

Check your facts!

Check your facts, as stated previously on this thread, the three day week came under Heath, Callaghans government therefore, by your logic should be credited, not Thatchers.

Maybe you need to look a bit deeper into the reason we had a 3 day week in the first place. I can think of a good argument to suggest that she prevented a recurrence.

BTW You should check your facts – Callaghan wasn’t PM in 1974.

Another point I don’t think anybody’s brought up in this thread – you do realise that Thatcher becoming PM in the first place was all the unions’ fault?

All this “removing the gunship (HMS Endurance) gave the green light to Argentina” is absolute cods and I’m afraid is the kind of talk that marks anyone out that uses it as a stark-raving, tin-foil hat wearing nut case.

The Falklands War happened because a sovereign nation decided to attack the territory of another sovereign nation. All this speak of ‘sending messages’ etc merely clouds over the fact that the Argentine government attacked sovereign territory of the United Kingdom, put poorly trained and equipped conscripts into a position where they would face some of the best trained and motivated military forces in the world and attempted to rely on a non-legally binding (in the eyes of the United Nations) ‘exclusion zone’, in the mistaken belief that it would protect their naval forces whilst they maneuvered them in a manner that according to the British naval commander on the scene made them a threat to the safety of his taskforce.

If the case against Thatcher is so weak that the tin-foil hat wearers have to invent some conspiracy around the Falklands War to hang around her neck then perhaps she didn’t do that bad a job after all.

Of course false 45 minute warnings, mysteriously suicidal weapons inspectors and complete lack of WMDs aren’t just idle talk and conjecture, they are actual fact and proof of lies, lies which have cost the lives of many people both civilian and military over something which in all honesty has very little to do with us as a nation.

acracer,

I never said Callaghan was pm in 74, not sure where you got that from. lanesra, had stated that Thatcher was responsible for smashing the 3 day week, I was pointing out that the 3 day week came in Heaths government, and by the logic he was using that the next government was responsible for sorting the mess out, that would be Callaghans government not Thatchers. But hey why bother to read anything, or include facts when you can make up your own to suit yourself?

Regarding the 3 day week, again as stated before, I think you’ll find that it came from the mishandling of relationships with the Unions over a fairly lengthy period of time. Much of which would have been to do with old school tie cronyism on both sides of the house.

Incidentally, could I just add that politically I am neither a lefty, nor a Tory, more of a very pissed off Social Democrat.

I do not believe Thatcher deliberately gave the green light for the Argentinians to invade the Falklands – but there is no doubt that a series of mistakes gave the Argentines the impression that the islands would not be defended – removing garrisons and retiring the gunboat – incompetence rather than conspiracy.

Certainly once the opportunity for armed conflict was there she made sure it happened. – rejecting various peace initiatives.

Sooty – of course he would say that – many neutrals the world over would not agree.

Ye hypocrites
Are these your pranks
To murder men
And Gie god thanks

All this “removing the gunship (HMS Endurance) gave the green light to Argentina” is absolute cods and I’m afraid is the kind of talk that marks anyone out that uses it as a stark-raving, tin-foil hat wearing nut case.

Presumably you are including Nick Barker, Captain of the Endurance in that description then?

sootyandjim – Member
All this “removing the gunship (HMS Endurance) gave the green light to Argentina” is absolute cods and I’m afraid is the kind of talk that marks anyone out that uses it as a stark-raving, tin-foil hat wearing nut case.

OK sooty, so which precisely of the stated facts below are incorrect then? (I think you will find that the tin foil nutcase thing refers to conspiracy theorists, and crop circle wallers, not those with historical fact and perspective on their side.)

Falklands : Thatcher was negotiating with the Argentinians to hand the Falklands back to them. She ordered the withdrawal of the “gunship” that had been on station there forever. At the same time she was busily reducing our armed forces ability to operate at a distance. (Hermes and Invincible, one was on the way to the scrap yard, and the other had been sold to the Australian Navy at the time!!!!) These actions were taken as a diplomatic signal by the Argentinians that we would not respond if they made a move. The nett result being that Thatcher went from the least popular mid term government in history to the most popular.

As I clearly stated,

It is only possible to speculate on the logic behind her actions.

I wasn’t drawing any conclusion from those facts, other than the conflict coming about was not her finest hour, which it clearly wasn’t given these facts.

At no point whatsoever have I sought to defend the Iraq war in this thread. So whats your point?