Scotland Indyref 2

I agree THM does know his stuff but it would be better if he did not couch it in childish names for politicians and if he clearly articulated hos views rather than alluded and patronised.

Wasn’t that what I just wrote? 😉

THM has the economic argument spot on – Scotland is far more closely tied to rUK than the EU – it is fairly clear cut.

Well at least NS is doing something about it.
The English opposition is missing in action.

This may have been answered before but what would be the drive for businesses to relocate to an independent Scotland following brexit rather than say Ireland?

In terms of risk moving to a location that would still be in a state of flux in terms of taxation, currency, sovereignty and access to the EU rather than an established location where all this is set.

Once you take the oil and pound away from the situation what can be offered that is unique compared to other countries?

I personally I think the situation is a complete cluster

aracer – Member
Since the brexit thread got hijacked by indyref talk, are we going to do the reverse here? 👿

😆 I think they are all inter-related topics because Sturgeon is acting by proxy for EU. EU is encouraging Sturgeon to do her best to sabotage the entire process of Brexit.

cchris2lou – Member
The English opposition is missing in action.

Actually No but more likely they just don’t believe in EU.

Fairly clear cut?????

Excuse me, it’s 100% certain.

Hence the desperate need to warp it all up in BS. Or take the argument that we don’t mind being worse off, as long as we are responsible for being worse off. Total madness

But it’s nothing to do with this anyway, Both issues are about narcissists who put their own political agendas ahead of the interests of the people they are supposed to be service. It’s shameful and scary that people are fooled by it.

Both issues? Can we roll Trump into this thread too, as your last para could have been about him. Though the difference is that I’m prepared to accept that Sturgeon does care a bit about the Scottish people.

Both issues are about narcissists who put their own political agendas ahead of the interests of the people they are supposed to be service.

this is unfair

Boris typified this Farage [ and other Brexiters] and NS do not. They belong to parties who have a single issue that defines them/their party. They are not narcissists nor are they putting their own agenda ahead of the people they just have polices you disagree with so you will be rude about them
Be rational there is much to criticise in both of them with out DM style hyperbole.

Or take the argument that we don’t mind being worse off, as long as we are responsible for being worse off.

would you stay in an unhappy marriage just because it was better financially for you?
Of course its important but it is not EVERYTHING you seem to forget that it is not always about money, for other people, if not for you.

Lets condisder fact: According to the Scottish Government’s own figures, Scotland’s removal from the single market would be far less damaging – by a factor of four – than its removal from the UK single market. And yet how does the narcissist present this in the posttruth world? You tell me.

I have no idea what you’re saying but whatever it is it’s got nothing to do with post-truth politics.

I am just a poor boy from the benighted glen,but I thought the only way we could trade with EUROPE was if we voted no two years ago? Suddenly Europe isn’t all that and trading with England is the way ahead? 🙄 We will be leaving,not as soon as the SNP would like,but brexit has set the break up of the union in motion. But for all the ” disenfranchised” posters on this thread,surely as the subsidy junkies your press describe us as,getting shot of us will be worth a huge advert on the side of the jambybus telling you how much better off you will all be:That will be a wee shot in the arm surely? However I must say that though I have had my differences with him,I am touched that THM loves us Scots enough to swallow that burden on his taxes.

Remain voters getting dragged in a direction you want nothing to do with by a majority of people who think radically differently to how you do.

Welcome to being Scottish.

Well, this was me two years ago on the night of the referendum result:

Independence Referendum Night by Ben Cooper[/url], on Flickr

I remember Margaret Curran shaking her head condescendingly at me during this. Turns out I was right and she’s out of a job.

Funny old world, isn’t it?

Both issues? Can we roll Trump into this thread too, as your last para could have been about him.

For sure, but don’t dare mention who got took in by Trump in the past 😉

Bruce – carry on, it most be very nice to love is a blissful world where reality merely passes you buy. Enjoy it.

Duckie, feel free to examine patterns of Scottish trade. Or ignore them if it makes you and Bruce happier.

I’m still waiting for the secret oil fields and oil boom promised by Yes the last time round.

Took in by – my apologies – taken in by

I’m still waiting for the secret oil fields and oil boom promised by Yes the last time round.

Well, I’m still waiting for the EU membership, the steel jobs, the guaranteed shipyard contracts, the HMRC jobs, the “near federalism”, the renewables subsidies, the carbon capture backing, and the extensive new powers promised by the No side.

Bruce – carry on, it most be very nice to love is a blissful world where reality merely passes you buy. Enjoy it.

I think what’s passing you by in your blissful enlightenment is that when you call everything you don’t agree with post-truth politics you yourself are playing a kind of post-truth politics.

So, once again, can you use google and that big old brain of yours to copy and paste a statement from the last seven days from Nicola Sturgeon or any other member of the Scottish government that is so blantantly false (something like “we send £350 million a week to the EU” or “I’m going to build a wall and I’m going to get Mexico to pay for it” will do) so that we can see that you actually have a case for calling post-truth politics and not just trying to write off every argument without actually having to justify yourself.

And no, your interpretation or saying what they really meant doesn’t count. Find an actual quote.

Carry on Bruce, I would hate to disturb your state of bliss. Enjoy

(p.s. putting the interests of the people of Scotland first)

So it’s post-truth politics to say “putting the interests of the people of Scotland first” because according to your interpretation she’s not putting the interests of the people of Scotland first?

Surely it must be dawning on you now that you don’t actually know what post-truth politics is and you are just saying it because it makes you sound clever without actually having to justify anything.

Carry on Bruce. Your state of bliss is awesome. Enjoy.

(p.s. the Scottish government – remember it – have pointed out her nonsense, but don’t let that get in the way. Ends and means, ends and means)

Carry on Bruce, I would hate to disturb your state of bliss. Enjoy

see aracer this is what he prefers to do rather than deliver his wisdom
edit: ah he did more as i typed

Carry on Bruce. Your state of bliss is awesome. Enjoy.

So…. are we agreeing you’re full of shit? I’m not as smart as you so it’s difficult for me to keep up sometimes.

Edit for your edit:

(p.s. the Scottish government – remember it – have pointed out her nonsense, but don’t let that get in the way. Ends and means, ends and means)

Like I said, copy and paste an actual quote because you can’t call post truth politics based on your interpretation of what she said.

genuine question , but is Scotland dependant on rest of the union financially or could it balance the books ( same deficit level as everyone else obviuosly ) on it own ?

Well we agree. Dont bother, as I said, much nicer to enjoy the state of bliss. I would far rather live in that kind of wonderland. It would be much nicer than reality which is really

or could it balance the books ( same deficit level as everyone else obviuosly ) on it own ?

😀

So does that mean you’re not going to use words you don’t know the meaning of anymore?

No it means I would encourage you to carry on in your state of bliss. I only wish I could experience the same. Enjoy.

To her credit though, dear Nicola is playing a canny game by pretending she is keen on another vote (keep the sheep happy) while being scared of the same (keep reality at bay). Smart cookie.

cchris2lou

Average of the recent past – easily. In the future – I’m not worried. Right now? A nice big fat deficit. too big. depends to an extent on separation terms tho.

Are we getting the usual mix of condescension and ignorance spiced with a tinge of racism from the usual suspects? I haven’t read the whole thread.

We Scots can run our own country and overcome all the real and imaginary difficulties that our colonial masters are chucking up.

Just like every country that has gained independence from the UK has – and even those that have run into real difficulties prefer that to coming back under the UK umbrella.

But I doubt we could manage such a royal **** as the Tories have just managed, so maybe that disqualifies us.

I don’t care about the BS, I just want us to take back control of our country.

Mmm, where have I heard that before….?

BTW well said Ben.

Alex was happy to renage on debt – so you had no deficit – no really!

Welcome to fantasy land

Sturgeon is completely out of her depth. She is pandering to the vocal minority who are putting nationalism before sensibility. Unfortunately for the Jocks, most of the English don’t give a toss and will be pleased to see em go.

Are we getting the usual mix of condescension and ignorance spiced with a tinge of racism from the usual suspects? I haven’t read the whole thread.

Yup.

Ignorance for sure. The SNP relies on it. See no evil, hear no evil…

Reality versus rhetoric

Reality versus rhetoric

Those in glass houses…

No it means I would encourage you to carry on in your state of bliss. I only wish I could experience the same. Enjoy.

You’re having trouble achieving a state of bliss?

That’s strange, it sounds like you’re very sure of yourself and have complete faith in your views. Surely it must be quite blissful to not have to re-evaluate your thinking all the time.

I am and do, but reality is nowhere near as fun as fantasy land

It would be great to avoid reality and wander along in la la land

Real life is really rather a downer esp at the moment

I think I agree with you – and I wish he’d stop because he has so much to add to this thread. I’m kind of hoping that complimenting him in this way might be more likely to persuade him to change than you lot just arguing back at him all the time (which I’m inclined to think just encourages him).

I didn’t mention in my previous post that at best I’m skimming most of his posts or simply ignoring others – not because they upset me, just because I CBA.

SOH aracer SOH

The whole thing is so absurd – except for the poor folk who are taken in by this stuff, they are screwed – that you have to have some fun from it. It’s too far from reality to be taken seriously.

I really would be able to ignore reality – it really must be fun. I am genuinely envious of Bruce.

I am and do, but reality is nowhere near as fun as fantasy land

It would be great to avoid reality and wander along in la la land

Real life is really rather a downer esp at the moment

You’re saying that never having to change your thinking is actually a bit of a downer?

If it’s such a problem maybe you should try to engage others in conversation thus opening your mind up to new ideas. New ideas might help you become less of a downer.

Great idea Bruce. From now on I will agree that politicians are working in my best interests. Honestly.

Wow this is fun…

The trouble is THM, your SOH often violates Wheaton’s Law – I’m assuming you’re not really aware of that, so just trying to point it out in a friendly manner.